Thread: Wage Statistics for 2010

Originally Posted by LAM

your another fucking economic retard, any tax system redistributes wealth and this system existed long before there were ever "liberals" or "conservative" as it has for thousands of years dating back to ancient egyptians.

the US ranks 25th in mathematics in the OECD and people like you are a perfect example of this and why the US is in it's current fiscal situation. people like you are to worried about labels like capitalism and socialism instead of mathematics and economics is a hard science based on that.

Go fuck yourself Lam. Call me when you create a business from scratch that has grown by double digits every year since inception back in '97, grew 30% in '09, 23% in '10 and will close out '11 being up 25.8%. Call me too when you have a plant full of well paid enployess who get quarterly bonuses comaprable to 2-2.5weeks pay. Call me when the CPA tells you in October you need to build a new warehouse and buy a new truck now or your going to write a 6 figure check to the IRS in April.

Go read some book on economics and tell the guy in the cubicle next to you how fucking book smart you are and how there's never been a Demorcrat in your lifetime who has done wrong by you.

I'm sorry life has passed you by and all you have to blame are the rich, the Republicans and those you deem not as smart as you.

Originally Posted by LAM

pure delusion along with the fact that there is no such thing as free markets...for someone in Canada you spout the same free market bs that those on the far right do here in the states.

Well if I ever get kicked out of my country, it will be because of the right winged lunatics; I'm a free market Libertarian dip shit...there's a difference, but I won't ask you to look it up, you might very well become an internet expert on yet another subject you know jack shit about!!

You are absolutely right that there is no true free market; it's because of dip shits like you who are constantly crying for handouts and equal society.

I want a job , but I don't want to work hard for it . It's not fair that my neighbor worked his ass off and got rewarded for taking risk and creating jobs...I want his car and house because I'm equal to him in every other way

Originally Posted by vancouver

You are absolutely right that there is no true free market; it's because of dip shits like you who are constantly crying for handouts and equal society.

along with not knowing anything about the science or history behind econ you can't read. not once have I ever mentioned a word about "handouts" or equal society so not quite sure where you derived that from.

Originally Posted by LAM

along with not knowing anything about the science or history behind econ you can't read. not once have I ever mentioned a word about "handouts" or equal society so not quite sure where you derived that from.

You didn't. I'm saying it. There, how do you like them apples...

Originally Posted by LAM

the positive effect of wealth is only seen in high income families.

extreme income inequality reduces human capital of a large portion of the working population and encourages rent seeking activities by elites. it also reduces the trust and effectiveness of government.

it also reduces real GDP growth, contributes to more economic bubble/burst cycles and causes slow recovery from recessions (see ILO Global Wage Reports from 2008 and 2010 and the FRB for reports).

In the OECD and especially the US and UK there is a significant influence of the household income and educational attainment of any children.

www.oecd.org/dataoecd/2/7/45002641.pdf


In a recent report on social justice in the OECD the US ranked #27 out of #31 countries.

http://www.sgi-network.org/pdf/SGI11...stice_OECD.pdf

The US is losing it's educational advantage over other countries as they are catching up. a large majority of the highly educated workforce in the US is with the babyboomers who will be retiring in the next couple of decades.

Education at a Glance 2011 OECD Indicators
http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/7/32/48685294.pdf


"Overall, the U.S. comes out as an average performer in reading (rank 14 in OECD) and science (rank 17) but the U.S. drops below the OECD average in mathematics (rank 25). Also, there is a very wide gap between the top 10% and the bottom 10% of 15-year olds in the U.S, similar to that observed between top and bottom performing PISA countries."

PISA 2009 Results


http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/32/50/46623978.pdf

That must explain why the countries with the most rich people are the best in the world for everyone else to live in. Thank you for clarifying all of this. Now excuse me, I have to go pack my bags and move to Cuba.

here in aus its just as bad.

Originally Posted by DOMS

Stories are pleasant in their simplicity. However, truth is often more complex, and generally harsher.

Yes, you shouldn't be a miser, but you have to realize that you cannot forcibly make anyone better. Taking money from those that have it and throwing it at those that do not doesn't create equality. All that can be done is provide an avenue for those that choose to succeed (scholarships, supportive associations, etc.). The majority of people are where they belong.

So when you were born to a poor mother you were where you belonged?

Originally Posted by Dale Mabry

So when you were born to a poor mother you were where you belonged?

Two things:

1. I said "majority of people", nice job glossing over that.
2. When I was born, my mom was in the upper-middle class. She got a pony for her 5th birthday. It was until later that she was on her own and I grew up poor (about age 2).

Originally Posted by DOMS

Two things:

1. I said "majority of people", nice job glossing over that.
2. When I was born, my mom was in the upper-middle class. She got a pony for her 5th birthday. It was until later that she was on her own and I grew up poor (about age 2).

Ok, so do you believe your mother was where she should be when she went from upper middle to poor? Also, do you think you would be in a better place now had you been raised upper class the whole way through?

Originally Posted by Dale Mabry

Ok, so do you believe your mother was where she should be when she went from upper middle to poor?

The upper middle class is where she should have been. You know, where she was from.

Originally Posted by Dale Mabry

Also, do you think you would be in a better place now had you been raised upper class the whole way through?

I have no idea. There are way too many variables. Having said that, all of my relatives (uncles, aunts, cousins) seem to be nice and successful people. Most of them are business owners and firmly in the upper-middle class.

Originally Posted by Dale Mabry

So when you were born to a poor mother you were where you belonged?

This is what the government should be tackling, not economic policy. Leave the economy to the free market, use tax dollars for education, training, counseling, etc. This is what will equal the playing field...

There are actually a lot of jobs available in the U.S. (as much as dumbfuck LAM would disagree), there are just way too many people unqualified for them. I've listened to CEO after CEO interviewed on CNBC state, they need to hire people, but can't find qualified workers...

Originally Posted by DOMS

The upper middle class is where she should have been. You know, where she was from.



I have no idea. There are way too many variables. Having said that, all of my relatives (uncles, aunts, cousins) seem to be nice and successful people. Most of them are business owners and firmly in the upper-middle class.

That's my point. You have no control over the conditions you are born in and in most circumstances outside of owning your own business have little to no control over staying where you are. Maybe the person signing your paychecks is a terrible business person and doesn't feel like cutting in to his or her quality of life so you get fired. You can search for a job and in times where the economy is great you may find one, but life isn't always like that. Look at Busylivin, he was doing awesome and then lost his job. He had to take a job at a fraction of the pay he was making. He has admitted that it is partially his responsibility in not saving money, but was the circumstances under how he lost his job his fault? Probably not. This is precisely why I work for myself, I have complete control over how much I'm paid, when and if I want to work, and the level of service. Not everyone can be an entrepreneur, though. My line of working is perfect for it, but someone who goes to school on a Pell Grant for engineering is certainly not going to have the scratch to open up an engineering firm when they graduate. Now, there are sponges in the system and the system needs to be fixed, but you are kidding yourself if you think they are primarily what is holding us back. If wages were livable a lot more people would be working, but wages will never be livable when the people making the most money pay little to no taxes and pay Chinese people $2 a day to manufacture stuff. They are why the corporate tax rate is so high. Imagine how low Ma and Pa's taxes would be if GE actually paid taxes. The sponges are just a diversion.

Originally Posted by vancouver

This is what the government should be tackling, not economic policy. Leave the economy to the free market, use tax dollars for education, training, counseling, etc. This is what will equal the playing field...

There are actually a lot of jobs available in the U.S. (as much as dumbfuck LAM would disagree), there are just way too many people unqualified for them. I've listened to CEO after CEO interviewed on CNBC state, they need to hire people, but can't find qualified workers...

The problem is no one pays taxes, at least not the comanies making all of the money.

And why would our people not be qualified? Maybe getting a shitty education from teachers who don't give a fuck is part of the problem. Lowering taxes isn't going to fix that problem. We are absolutely going to need to raise taxes.

Originally Posted by Dale Mabry

The problem is no one pays taxes, at least not the comanies making all of the money.

And why would our people not be qualified? Maybe getting a shitty education from teachers who don't give a fuck is part of the problem. Lowering taxes isn't going to fix that problem. We are absolutely going to need to raise taxes.

Actually, that is not the bigest problem, the problem is the government wasting money, it's too big, it's fighting stupid wars, it spends more per capita on national security than nearly the rest of the world combined. The governement has printed trillions of dollars which taxpayers will have to pay interest on, very little of this money has found its way to the taxpayer.

Government can raise a ton of cash by making major cuts. As well, I think it's a good idea to let the Bush Tax cuts expire. The combination of the 2 will raise a lot of capital. 100% of this freed up money should go to Education and job training. Over a 2-3 year period, tax revenue will raise through job creation, the kind that comes from training people and letting businesses build a real economy. While this is going on, tax reform is needed. Provide businesses with equal tax credits if they invest in education and social charity. Move to a Bismarckian healthcare system (like France, Germany, etc), this will shift a big percentage of the healthcare burden to businesses.

What the Dems would like to do is spend all the money on roads and bridges. Businesses will find a way to funnel this money (as they should) and the money will be pissed away. If the money is going to be pissed away at least piss it away on educating the nation, the consequence is much better.

Originally Posted by Dale Mabry

That's my point. You have no control over the conditions you are born in and in most circumstances outside of owning your own business have little to no control over staying where you are. Maybe the person signing your paychecks is a terrible business person and doesn't feel like cutting in to his or her quality of life so you get fired. You can search for a job and in times where the economy is great you may find one, but life isn't always like that. Look at Busylivin, he was doing awesome and then lost his job. He had to take a job at a fraction of the pay he was making. He has admitted that it is partially his responsibility in not saving money, but was the circumstances under how he lost his job his fault? Probably not. This is precisely why I work for myself, I have complete control over how much I'm paid, when and if I want to work, and the level of service. Not everyone can be an entrepreneur, though. My line of working is perfect for it, but someone who goes to school on a Pell Grant for engineering is certainly not going to have the scratch to open up an engineering firm when they graduate. Now, there are sponges in the system and the system needs to be fixed, but you are kidding yourself if you think they are primarily what is holding us back. If wages were livable a lot more people would be working, but wages will never be livable when the people making the most money pay little to no taxes and pay Chinese people $2 a day to manufacture stuff. They are why the corporate tax rate is so high. Imagine how low Ma and Pa's taxes would be if GE actually paid taxes. The sponges are just a diversion.

What you do have control over is yourself. That's what I've been saying all along. So what if you lose your job? There are still plenty of avenues out there is you're willing to work for them. Hell, I'm about to go through a career change because I want to.

The problem with most people is that they take the easy way. I've already covered this. This is the reason, along with what I've seen with my own eyes or studied, that I say that most people are where they belong.

Originally Posted by DOMS

What you do have control over is yourself. That's what I've been saying all along. So what if you lose your job? There are still plenty of avenues out there is you're willing to work for them. Hell, I'm about to go through a career change because I want to.

The problem with most people is that they take the easy way. I've already covered this. This is the reason, along with what I've seen with my own eyes or studied, that I say that most people are where they belong.

You definitely have control over yourself, but you have little to no control over the market for your services. I absolutely do not envy these kids coming out of college with 6 figure student loan debt. There is no way most of them outside of Doctors or lawyers will be able to pay back their debt with the current economic conditions.

What are you going to change you career to? I did the same thing in 2006 and it was the smartest things I ever did.

Originally Posted by vancouver

What the Dems would like to do is spend all the money on roads and bridges. Businesses will find a way to funnel this money (as they should) and the money will be pissed away. If the money is going to be pissed away at least piss it away on educating the nation, the consequence is much better.

building the US infrastructure is how the US put people to work and recovered from the Great Depression. capital projects would not require people to relocate as many simply can't due to low funds (moving is very expensive) and/or they are tied into an upside down mortgage (25% of US homeowners), the jobs need to come to them. this would employ a lot of people in construction and all of those related supply chains, many of the ones that have been effected by long term unemployment since the housing bubble burst.


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