Churches Walk a Fined Line

**jagbender** · 02-08-2012, 07:25 AM

Churches Walk a Fined Line

People in Pennsylvania were shocked to hear that Shippensburg University is selling the morning-after pill in campus vending machines. It's a shocking way to normalize a drug like Plan B, which can abort a pregnancy in its earliest stage. Starting next year, President Obama's team has an equally outrageous way of dispensing the pills: ordering religious schools, hospitals, and charities to pay for them. Under his insurance mandate, faith-based groups will be the administration's new vending machines, forced to dish out drugs and procedures that clash with their most fundamental beliefs.

And if they refuse? The Wall Street Journal estimates that the penalties to an organization of Catholic Charities' size could be as much as $140 million a year in fines. "That means millions less for struggling families, for refugees, for the sick and elderly and for the other needy Americans who benefit from their good works." The rest of America wouldn't be off the hook either. "This is far more than a 'Catholic' issue. At a minimum, it means higher taxes and less efficiency for all if the government picks up the slack." One in six U.S. hospitals has Catholic ties, and if the church is as serious about resisting the policy as it says it is, that would mean a massive void in medical care. The government--and by extension, taxpayers--would have to shoulder even more of the financial burden.

But the faith community won't go quietly. Yesterday, Catholic League President Bill Donahue said he is willing to bring the church's 70 million voters to bear on the President in November if the mandate isn't overturned. "Never before, unprecedented in American history, [has] the federal government line[d] up against the Roman Catholic Church," he said. One hundred sixty-eight Catholic bishops are going to the mat on the rule, about 90% of all U.S. dioceses. And more than 154 Congressmen are lining up beside them, thanks to Rep. Steve Scalise (R-La.). Dozens of Republicans and Democrats signed his letter to the White House, demanding the President reconsider. "This radical mandate... is an attack on the religious freedoms guaranteed to all Americans by the Bill of Rights. Religious organizations and hard-working taxpayers should not be forced by the federal government to pay for abortion-inducing drugs, contraceptives, or sterilizations in their health care plans... I'm proud to stand with the vast majority of Americans who respect religious freedom in demanding that this mandate be reversed."

Faced with red-hot opposition--even within the administration--White House spokesman Jay Carney hinted Monday at a possible modification to the policy. But if this is anything like the administration's "compromise" over taxpayer-funded abortion in ObamaCare, the church should know better than cutting a deal. When the White House is ordering Americans to choose between government and God, nothing but a complete repeal will do.

Help America Regain Conscience-ness!

How will the President's health care mandate affect you? Tune in this Thursday, February 9, to a special FRC Action webcast, live from our Washington, D.C. headquarters. You'll hear from congressional members like Rep. Ann Marie Buerkle (R- N.Y.), religious leaders like Dr. Richard Land, health care experts like Grace Marie Turner, and media insiders like Terry Jeffrey. FRC Action is proud to partner with dozens of evangelical and Catholic groups, who see this oppressive mandate as a declaration of war against our first freedoms. Don't miss this chance to get up to speed on the administration's attack and what you can do to stop it. Join us for "Health Care Mandate: Violating the Separation of Church and State" and tell your friends and family!

Behind the 8 Ball?

In what was almost a foregone conclusion in the country's most liberal court, the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals struck down California's marriage amendment, Proposition 8. The ruling, which upheld a lower court decision by Judge Vaughn Walker, doesn't answer the broader question about homosexual "marriage's" constitutionality. Instead, the court ruled Proposition 8 unconstitutional because it took away rights that had already existed in California. "Because California had already extended to committed same-sex couples both the incidents of marriage [our legislatively created domestic partnership law] and the official designation of 'marriage,' and Proposition 8's only effect was to take away that important and legally significant designation, while leaving in place all of its incidents." FRC had filed a brief in the case, arguing that this has as much to do with the preservation of democracy as traditional marriage.

Although today's outcome is disappointing, it's not surprising. As Ed Whelan pointed out, "In the grand scheme of things, there is nothing enduringly significant about today's ruling... [T]he composition of the Ninth Circuit panel meant that there was no prospect for a reversal of Walker 's ruling." In the end, Perry v. Brown is a Hollywood-funded lawsuit that aims to impose San Francisco values on the entire country. And while homosexual activists will soak up today's publicity and declare victory, the reality is that this is a brief stopover before Prop 8's ultimate destination: the U.S. Supreme Court. There, we can be confident that the justices will uphold the right of the people to govern themselves.

** Last night, I had the privilege of being the keynote speaker for the Todd Becker Foundation's annual fundraising dinner in Kearney, Nebraska. Keith Becker launched the ministry seven years ago after his brother, Todd, was killed in an alcohol-related car accident. Since the tragedy, Keith and his team have held student assemblies in public schools telling Todd's story as a way to challenge kids to chose the narrow road (Matthew 7:13). The assemblies, which are completely within the rights of students and schools, are sponsored by local churches that do the follow-up after Todd Becker Foundation leaves. It should come as no surprise that as their impact has grown, the ACLU and other anti-Christian organizations have sought to block and even shut them down. I encourage you to consider inviting them to your community.

*** For more on the national fallout from the Girl Scouts-Planned Parenthood partnership, check out Cathy Ruse's new Washington Times op-ed, "Planned Parenthood: Girl Scout Cookie Monster."

*** Also, Bob Morrison has a great column in National Review explaining why the contraception mandate is a threat to every American. Click here to read "Why This Lutheran Defends Catholics' Conscience Rights."

FRC Homepage

**LAM** · 02-08-2012, 09:47 AM

I went to Ship for a little bit and they should there, one crazy ass party school. nothing like going to a party out to the farm at Phi Sig on a tues night with 30 kegs and 600 people.

**KelJu** · 02-08-2012, 10:29 AM

I would like my right-wing christian fundamentalist propaganda with a side of eggs and hashbrowns please.

**Gissurjon** · 02-08-2012, 12:14 PM

When the catholic church apologizes for what they did to those little boys I'll maybe start caring what they have to say...

**jagbender** · 02-08-2012, 02:09 PM

InstaPoll: Attack on Religious Freedom?

**jagbender** · 02-08-2012, 02:10 PM

what about seperation of church and state? That is the issue

Obama is wiping his butt with our constitutional rights

**KelJu** · 02-08-2012, 02:17 PM

Originally Posted by jagbender

what about seperation of church and state? That is the issue

Obama is wiping his butt with our constitutional rights

Prop 8 was a perfect example of Christians non-willingness to respect the boundaries of church and state. Shit isn't too funny when it comes back around full circle.

**jagbender** · 02-08-2012, 02:52 PM

Originally Posted by KelJu

Prop 8 was a perfect example of Christians non-willingness to respect the boundaries of church and state. Shit isn't too funny when it comes back around full circle.

Do you think it is right for same sex marriages?

**LAM** · 02-08-2012, 03:01 PM

Originally Posted by jagbender

what about seperation of church and state? That is the issue

Obama is wiping his butt with our constitutional rights

while the POTUS signs legislation into law I suggest looking at the specific legislative act and seeing who actually proposes this stuff, their party affiliation and their major campaign contributors.

the primary job of the POTUS is on running the federal government not micromanaging legislation passed out of the House.

**maniclion** · 02-08-2012, 03:20 PM

Originally Posted by jagbender

Do you think it is right for same sex marriages?

I am all for anything that helps curb the over-population issue as long as people still have a choice. Homosexuality means less accidental pregnancies, availability for people to use contraception means less pregnancies, and giving people the right to terminate a pregnancy means less people.

**Zaphod** · 02-08-2012, 03:20 PM

Originally Posted by jagbender

Do you think it is right for same sex marriages?

I do. It has no effect on me. Two guys or two chicks want to get married who cares? On the argument of it "cheapening" marriage, how? Long before gays and lesbians were allowed to marry straight couples have been getting divorced more and more, cheating on each other more and more. Strangely enough, the bible belt has the highest divorce rate of any other region in the US. Divorce and adultery are what brings down the concept of marriage, not some homosexuals getting married.

**KelJu** · 02-08-2012, 03:40 PM

Originally Posted by jagbender

Do you think it is right for same sex marriages?

I don't think the government should have any say whatsoever in the institution of marriage in the first place. Marriage should be a ceremony either religious or non-religious in nature depending on the preference of the people getting married.

The act of two people coming together to become a single financial entity, however, should be controlled by the government, and since the government has no right to discriminate, then incorporating two homos or lesbos should be legal. From a financial and legal standpoint, let people incorporate, and then let them celebrate their incorporation however they choose whether it be a fairy gay wedding with fellow homos or a traditional Catholic wedding at a Cathedral.

I constantly hear arguments of sanctity of marriage and family yet 70% percent of the country is Christian, and the divorce rate is over 50%. I smell so much hypocrisy that my nose is burning from the acrid smell of bullshit.

**hoyle21** · 02-08-2012, 03:50 PM

Separation of church and state and religious freedom aren't always the same. We don't allow animal or human sacrifice in religious ceremony's in this country either.

**KelJu** · 02-08-2012, 04:05 PM

Animal sacrifice is legal in many places of the US. On the same note, butt fucking is illegal in many states, and homos have actually been arrested for it in Texas. Since the 80s, Texas has upheld the law against fudge-packing 3 times.

The line between separation of church and state is highly dependent on the medium IQ of that state's citizens which also happens to be highly correlated with how Jesusy that state happens to be.

**hoyle21** · 02-08-2012, 04:11 PM

No shit, animal sacrifice is actually legal I just looked it up. I just thought it was illegal because some dumb ass kids just got in trouble for doing it. Looks like they actually got them for animal cruelty. The sacrifice must have been brutal.

**Gissurjon** · 02-08-2012, 04:12 PM

Originally Posted by KelJu

Animal sacrifice is legal in many places of the US. On the same note, butt fucking is illegal in many states, and homos have actually been arrested for it in Texas. Since the 80s, Texas has upheld the law against fudge-packing 3 times.

The line between separation of church and state is highly dependent on the medium IQ of that state's citizens which also happens to be highly correlated with how Jesusy that state happens to be.

Supreme court shot that down a while back. That doesn't mean a state can't have it on their books but as far as legality is concerned, the supreme court's ruling supersedes any state law.

**hoyle21** · 02-08-2012, 04:16 PM

I don't see why religious organizations and people don't just keep to themselves. Don't like abortions, don't have one. Don't like gay marriage, don't marry a gay.

And if the catholic church (or any church for that matter) wants to get involved in politics, pay taxes.

**troubador** · 02-08-2012, 05:41 PM

Originally Posted by hoyle21

I don't see why religious organizations and people don't just keep to themselves. Don't like abortions, don't have one. Don't like gay marriage, don't marry a gay.

One doesn't abort them-self so that really doesn't fall under the tenet of 'keeping to themselves'.

**LAM** · 02-08-2012, 05:46 PM

Originally Posted by maniclion

I am all for anything that helps curb the over-population issue as long as people still have a choice.

it's amazing how many people just don't get this topic and it's importance.

**KelJu** · 02-08-2012, 06:39 PM

Originally Posted by troubador

One doesn't abort them-self so that really doesn't fall under the tenet of 'keeping to themselves'.

A fertilized embryo isn't a human being anymore than an egg is a chicken, so yes, the term does apply.

**troubador** · 02-08-2012, 07:54 PM

Originally Posted by KelJu

A fertilized embryo isn't a human being anymore than an egg is a chicken, so yes, the term does apply.

Not only is that a non sequitur but you seemed to have missed the obvious fact that not all eggs are fertilized.

Here Dawkins and Singer talk about the imaginary moral barrier people place between fetus and infant. ~ minute 23

**KelJu** · 02-08-2012, 08:38 PM

Originally Posted by troubador

Not only is that a non sequitur but you seemed to have missed the obvious fact that not all eggs are fertilized.

Here Dawkins and Singer talk about the imaginary moral barrier people place between fetus and infant. ~ minute 23

I didn't miss anything you pretentious fuck. I am not going to over explain myself to cover every tiny detail to fit nicely into your little world. Non sequitur? This coming from the champion of going off on a tangent when it gives you the opportunity to use big words to make points that have nothing to do with what is being discussed.

This thread isn't about killing a fetus. It is about the morning after pill. Since you are the king of what is obvious and what isn't, tell me what does the ethical and moral implications of killing a fetus have to do with stopping an embryo a few days after a one night stand?

Not all chicken eggs are bla bla bla. What the fuck does that have to do with anything? There is no practical difference between a fertilized chicken egg and a non-fertilized chicken egg for the purposes of that analogy, since they all become an omelet anyway.

God damn! You try so hard to sound like some intellectual power house and 90% of your bullshit is transparent to everyone. You are so fake. Just stop, for god's sake.

**troubador** · 02-08-2012, 09:01 PM

Originally Posted by KelJu

Just stop, for god's sake.

Maybe you shouldn't have engaged me. I'm not really interested in reading your anger vomit.

**maniclion** · 02-08-2012, 09:20 PM

The morning after pill actually fits nicely with Keljus scrambled egg bit. Since its the morning after what are the chances of a zygote being in production or not, its way too early to tell. Its not like we can shove a lightbulb up a womans ass and see if her egg has been fertilized or not like they do with chicken eggs.... Still unless 2012 lives up to its hype we are fucked if we don't stop breeding like rats on a slowly sinking ship...

**LAM** · 02-09-2012, 02:00 AM

Originally Posted by maniclion

Still unless 2012 lives up to its hype we are fucked if we don't stop breeding like rats on a slowly sinking ship...

US teens have the highest pregnancy rate only because we have the least amount of access to birth control out of all industrialized wealthy country's.

all forms of birth control should be almost free and readily available EVERYWHERE in the US.

**savalacad** · 02-09-2012, 02:49 AM

Originally Posted by LAM

US teens have the highest pregnancy rate only because we have the least amount of access to birth control out of all industrialized wealthy country's.

all forms of birth control should be almost free and readily available EVERYWHERE in the US.

i really agree.

**Gissurjon** · 02-09-2012, 10:45 AM

Originally Posted by LAM

US teens have the highest pregnancy rate only because we have the least amount of access to birth control out of all industrialized wealthy country's.

all forms of birth control should be almost free and readily available EVERYWHERE in the US.

Oh no! then we would be giving them permission to have sex!!!!!!

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