Thread: FBI Pushes Legislation to Make It Easier to Wiretap the Web

At the moment it's a request, an option. Soon to be a law, more than likely.

I can't believe this sh*t. What the hell is going on?

Originally Posted by rvp12Bet

I can't believe this sh*t. What the hell is going on?

government control and loss of freedom.

The government wants total control over the Internet. And we let them do it. The question is, what are you going to do about it?

Originally Posted by Swiper

The government wants total control over the Internet. And we let them do it. The question is, what are you going to do about it?

there's nothing we can do about it. the fed gov quit working for the people decades ago, they only serve those at the top and the markets at this point. lobbying and private money have totally corrupted "democracy" in the US at this point.

we're all fucked which is why I don't see myself living in this country for more than the next 10 years, maybe less.

It can't feasibly work the way they want it to work or to get the type of information they claim to want to get. It is a gigantic fucking lie from start to finish. The internet isn't a phone system. It's not a magical system that runs on an enchanted black box located in the United States. The infrastructure spans the entire god damn world. If software developers and e-commerce companies in the US start building back doors into their products, criminals and terrorist will simply switch to something else. There are shit loads of free and secure communication applications out there that the government couldn't snoop in on if they had a 100 warrants. Other countries don't have to comply with U.S. laws, so secure software will be developed by other countries. Nice job there on pushing more jobs and technologies over seas.

People who value their privacy and rights will adopt security standards that can't be snooped on. Do you really fucking think bad guys won't do the same? This whole thing is a fucking joke. It is a way to spy on Americans, end of story. And, don't even get me started on how bad of an idea it would be to force developers cripple their security by putting in a backdoor. If you open a backdoor into applications, all security from then on is fucked. Hackers security experts are far too advanced for the government to stop. You might as well just say fuck it, and everybody gets access to everybody's email and personal content.

Originally Posted by KelJu

It can't feasibly work the way they want it to work or to get the type of information they claim to want to get. It is a gigantic fucking lie from start to finish. The internet isn't a phone system. It's not a magical system that runs on an enchanted black box located in the United States.

you have to remember that it was DOD/DARPA that developed the fundamental lower level protocols that the Internet is based on.

All of backbone fiber running across the country is tapped which means data from the Internet is covered along with the public switched telephone network (PSTN) as anything that terminates to copper on the user end gets tied into the backbone fiber at some point.
NSA Watch | Scandal

Originally Posted by Prince

we're all fucked which is why I don't see myself living in this country for more than the next 10 years, maybe less.

Same here.

Originally Posted by LAM

you have to remember that it was DOD/DARPA that developed the fundamental lower level protocols that the Internet is based on.

All of backbone fiber running across the country is tapped which means data from the Internet is covered along with the public switched telephone network (PSTN) as anything that terminates to copper on the user end gets tied into the backbone fiber at some point.
NSA Watch | Scandal

That doesn't matter so much. Security isn't built into the physical layer where the fiber, copper, and wireless exist. It is mostly built into the application layer which is where the FBI wants developers to put the backdoor. That is also the easiest place for hackers to exploit. Sites like facebook and gmail struggle to protect to integrity of their customer's data as it is. If you poke a huge gaping hole into it, then security becomes impossible. The FBI fucking knows this. So I can't come to any other conclusion than to believe that this has nothing to do with national security and everything to do with spying on Americans.

Originally Posted by KelJu

It can't feasibly work the way they want it to work or to get the type of information they claim to want to get. It is a gigantic fucking lie from start to finish. The internet isn't a phone system. It's not a magical system that runs on an enchanted black box located in the United States. The infrastructure spans the entire god damn world. If software developers and e-commerce companies in the US start building back doors into their products, criminals and terrorist will simply switch to something else. There are shit loads of free and secure communication applications out there that the government couldn't snoop in on if they had a 100 warrants. Other countries don't have to comply with U.S. laws, so secure software will be developed by other countries. Nice job there on pushing more jobs and technologies over seas.

People who value their privacy and rights will adopt security standards that can't be snooped on. Do you really fucking think bad guys won't do the same? This whole thing is a fucking joke. It is a way to spy on Americans, end of story. And, don't even get me started on how bad of an idea it would be to force developers cripple their security by putting in a backdoor. If you open a backdoor into applications, all security from then on is fucked. Hackers security experts are far too advanced for the government to stop. You might as well just say fuck it, and everybody gets access to everybody's email and personal content.

doesn't matter, if they want to control, block and censor what we can get to online within the US they can do it, other countries like China do it already.

Originally Posted by Prince

doesn't matter, if they want to control, block and censor what we can get to online within the US they can do it, other countries like China do it already.

They can try to do it. People in the US enjoy their privacy more than those in China. The people in China had no other choice than to roll over and settle for a censored internet where everything coming to and from the country is moderated. We are not quite to that point here. There are enough people in the US who will not allow the government to spy on them and who will adopt secure standards. The government can't outlaw secure standards. You are talking about recreating billions of dollars worth of data communications equipment and software. Do you think fortune 500 companies are going to toss out their cisco VPN systems using SSL and IPSec tunneling security just to appease the fucking FBI? It won't happen.

From a technological standpoint, it won't work. It can't work. Even people in china can beat the government's restrictions. I could name 20 applications off the top of my head that can tunnel through their systems and get to Google in the US. The difference is that the Chinese are scared of their government. In the US we are just annoyed with our government. Fuck the US government, I'll use Tor and proxies if I have to, and so will criminals.

Originally Posted by KelJu

They can try to do it. People in the US enjoy their privacy more than those in China. The peopel in China had no other choice than to roll over and settle for a concored internet where everything coming to and from the country is moderated. We are nto quite to that point here. There are enough people in the US who will not allow the government to spy on them and who will adopt secure standards. The government can;t outlaw secure standards. You are talkign about recreating billions of dollars worth of data communications equipment and software. Do you think fortune 500 companies are going to toss out their cisco VPN systems using SSL and IPSec tunneling security just to appease the fucking FBI? It won't happen.

no, that is not how it will work...all they have to do is contact the ISP's and let the control (censorship) begin!

Originally Posted by Prince

no, that is not how it will work...all they have to do is contact the ISP's and let the control (censorship) begin!

It is a hell of lot more complicated than that. ISPs can't do shit if a user is knowledgeable about security. All an ISP can do is block ports, redirect traffic, and use "Man in the Middle Attacks" to try and capture PSKs for secure protocols. An ISP can log every byte of data that passes in and out of your gateway, but without encryption keys, the data is useless. They could chomp away on 1024 bit AES encryption key for 20 years and they still probably wouldn't break it. I read that the NSA wanted a billion dollars to build a new super computer to crack 512 bit encryption keys so they could snoop on technologies based on modern encryption. That's real fucking funny since we will probably be at 2048 bit encryption by the time they get the thing built. The FBI and NSA could force companies that create the digital certificates like Verisign to give them the keys, but then nobody outside the US will want to use them. Again, you will force companies over seas to create their own systems for public-key infrastructure.

Plus, what good is password breaking computer going to be when the rest of the world says "Fuck You!" to the US and refuses to cripple their own systems for the sake of US national security. How is the US going to snoop on terrorists or criminals who using secure software going from Europe to Asia? How will they snoop on higher bit encryption that doesn't use a public-key infrastructure? Criminals will only use a system so long as it is relatively safe. The second that is no longer true, they are going to move to something else. That means the FBI will only catch idiots doing small time shit who are dumb enough to conduct their activities over facebook, tweeter, and gmail.

I know for a fact that the FBI isn't that stupid. That leaves only one possible reason for why they want to do this. They want to spy on Americans to know what we are doing, who we are talking to, and what we are talking about.

Originally Posted by Prince

we're all fucked which is why I don't see myself living in this country for more than the next 10 years, maybe less.

Where would you go off to?

Originally Posted by DOMS

Where would you go off to?

South

Originally Posted by KelJu

That doesn't matter so much. Security isn't built into the physical layer where the fiber, copper, and wireless exist. It is mostly built into the application layer which is where the FBI wants developers to put the backdoor.

that's exactly the point SONET/SDH is at the physical layer that's why the NSA had the USS Jimmy Carter upgrading to be able to insert taps into the transoceanic optical cabling all you need to do is siphon off part of the optical signal and you can collect all the raw data you need.

Originally Posted by Prince

South

You do realize that the level of corruption in Central and South America makes what goes on the US look like a joke, right?

Originally Posted by DOMS

You do realize that the level of corruption in Central and South America makes what goes on the US look like a joke, right?

2011 World Justice Rankings - Starts on Page 105
http://worldjusticeproject.org/sites...roli2011_0.pdf

2010 World Justice Project Rankings Starts on Page 94
http://worldjusticeproject.com/sites...x%202010_0.pdf

Originally Posted by LAM

2011 World Justice Rankings - Starts on Page 105
http://worldjusticeproject.org/sites...roli2011_0.pdf

2010 World Justice Project Rankings Starts on Page 94
http://worldjusticeproject.com/sites...x%202010_0.pdf

You're document backs up what I said.

I was wondering why my computer started freezing.

Originally Posted by DOMS

You're document backs up what I said.

Globally yes but regional the US ranks at the bottom in just about every category but then again 96% of the US population never travels international so the global ranking is rather a moot point.

Originally Posted by LAM

Globally yes but regional the US ranks at the bottom in just about every category but then again 96% of the US population never travels international so the global ranking is rather a moot point.

My point is that there isn't some mythical "better place." There are places, small countries, that are better in some categories, but they also have their issues.

If I was to leave the USA, it'd be for Australia. Even then, Australia is a nanny-state. They even ban some video games. And they monitor their people, and kowtow to corporations, just like the USA does. Britain is well on its way, more so than the USA, to being a police-state.

Things get even more bleak if you subscribe to an impending global meltdown.

Originally Posted by DOMS

Things get even more bleak if you subscribe to an impending global meltdown.

there is no other conclusion any logical thinker could come to. as a realist I do not subscribe to magical thinking, that being the case and not having witnessed one single event in the past 40 years that would show any change in direction.