Thread: Chicago teachers vote for strike in battle over pay, longer school days

Meanwhile, scores of millions of non-unionized salaried employees simply work a little longer when asked to work a little longer.

30% increase in pay is what they want

Where in the hell do these public sector employees think that this money comes from?

These teachers and their union reps could care less that private sector employers are not going to grant their employees a 29% auto raise to fund their increased public sector salaries and that the private sector employees that pay their salaries have had their salaries and benefits slashed.
This attitude of public sector employees is exactly why Wisconsin voters rejected the attempt at recalling Scott Walker.

"Union officials are pushing for a two-year contract that would reduce class sizes and give teachers a 24 percent raise in their first year and a five percent raise the second year"

Originally Posted by Big Pimpin

Meanwhile, scores of millions of non-unionized salaried employees simply work a little longer when asked to work a little longer.

and what percentage of those had to have a 4 year degree? and how many of them had to get an advanced degree such as a MA, etc.?

here in Vegas a teacher can't make a decent salary unless they have a MA + 16....those loans just don't pay themselves off

Originally Posted by LAM

and what percentage of those had to have a 4 year degree? and how many of them had to get an advanced degree such as a MA, etc.?

here in Vegas a teacher can't make a decent salary unless they have a MA + 16....those loans just don't pay themselves off

First post I've seen of yours that I agree with. And honestly, I don't know anyone that willingly puts in more hours and doesn't want more pay.

The raise is not commensurate with the extra work or the performance of the schools at all. Graduation rate is under 60%, do you go to your boss when you do that poorly and demand a 25% raise? No, he would laugh in your face. Are teachers underpaid, probably, do they work only 9.5-10 months a year instead of 11-11.5 like the rest of us, yes. I'm sorry but even saying we want 15% is asking a lot from a city and state that are broke as a joke.

Originally Posted by oufinny

The raise is not commensurate with the extra work or the performance of the schools at all. Graduation rate is under 60%, do you go to your boss when you do that poorly and demand a 25% raise? No, he would laugh in your face. Are teachers underpaid, probably, do they work only 9.5-10 months a year instead of 11-11.5 like the rest of us, yes. I'm sorry but even saying we want 15% is asking a lot from a city and state that are broke as a joke.

I agree they are asking for too much. For 10% more work, they should get 10% more pay. I know it is popular right now to blame teachers for student's poor performance, but the blame shouldn't be all on them. I've worked closely with inner city schools. I've seen great teachers with terrible students. They miss class half of the time, refuse to do homework and even in-class assignments. Their parents blame the school and system. The real problem is the the parents. We've grown generations of people who don't value education, don't follow authority, have excuses for everything and do nothing. Teachers cannot fix the problems caused at home.

CPS have to deal with savages. These are not students who actually want to be in school and most of the time dont go. So the graduation rate numbers cant always be the only measuring standards. The City of Chicago are dealing with droves of your media "honor roll students" robbing and attacking tourists in the downtown area. Sometimes 50 deep. All between 13-18 years old. These are the "students" CPS have to deal with. The 25% raise is a bargaining start off point. Who buys a car a sticker price?? The asking % always starts off high. Teachers will get an average of 2% a year raise over the life of the next contract, just like police and fire will get. But who knows!

Originally Posted by Swiper

30% increase in pay is what they want

That's what everyone wants. Even you.

What that 30% is is a starting point in the bargaining, it counters the paltry 2% CPS is offering. Through bargaining they will end up somewhere in between those two numbers, probably much closer to that 2% than the 30%.

Originally Posted by oufinny

The raise is not commensurate with the extra work or the performance of the schools at all. Graduation rate is under 60%, do you go to your boss when you do that poorly and demand a 25% raise? No, he would laugh in your face. Are teachers underpaid, probably, do they work only 9.5-10 months a year instead of 11-11.5 like the rest of us, yes. I'm sorry but even saying we want 15% is asking a lot from a city and state that are broke as a joke.

schools with low graduation rats have parents with low incomes. in the OECD the household income is a huge factor in the academic success of the child as is the level of academic achievement of the parents and especially in the US, UK and Italy.

standardized testing is only accurate in those that come from the same types of households from the same income groups, etc.

Teacher Pay Around the World - NYTimes.com

Does performance-based pay improve teaching? PISA 2012
http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/33/16/50328990.pdf

Originally Posted by LAM

and what percentage of those had to have a 4 year degree? and how many of them had to get an advanced degree such as a MA, etc.?

here in Vegas a teacher can't make a decent salary unless they have a MA + 16....those loans just don't pay themselves off

I was referring to white collared salary jobs, so to answer you question, most would have at least a 4 year degree.

In these times everyone needs to take a cut.
EXCEPT UNIONS

Everyone hates city workers when the economy is bad. When the economy is good they are just an average
worker on a lowely city wage!

Originally Posted by Chitown

Everyone hates city workers when the economy is bad. When the economy is good they are just an average
worker on a lowely city wage!

They aren't exactly making minimum wage:

2010-2011: the CPS gives a starting salary of $50,577 for a first-year teacher with a bachelor's degree. But that's including the seven-percent "pension pickup," which comes from the Board of Education: it's compensation, obviously, but not money teachers get right now.

Since that doesn't seem to be regularly included in the salaries quoted by news reports, it's probably better for comparison to subtract it, which can easily be done with the more detailed tables provided by CPS (PDF).

If we do that, the starting salary is $47,628. The maximum, for a teacher with 20 years' experience and a doctorate, is $88,680 ($93,817 if you include the pension pickup). The average, according to the AP, is $69,000.

Do you know what the cost of living is in the city of chicago? For every wage increase there is a tax that also increases to cancel it out. Its not the city workers that are responsible for the economic downward spiral. Its your private sector! The banks! Go beef on the CEOs and their bonuses. Go beef to the Loan officers who were greedy, approving loans to people who should not been approved just to get commission. Dont beef on a respectable job with a modest living. Beef about college kids EXPECTING a six figure salary right out of college but yet complain about a city workers five figure salary with job security because they aren't wealthy right out of college. Beef on the stock brokerage firms making billions stealing money! But yet everyone complains about the average city workers five figure pension and modest salary. Also city workers pay up to 10% of their salary every paycheck into the pension system and cannot collect social security. Its not free money, its something that is earned! Wakeup! Why should they make minimum wage? They go to college too.

Originally Posted by jagbender

In these times everyone needs to take a cut.
EXCEPT UNIONS

Or the rich...Or the seniors...or the college students...Every body should take a hit to pay for this, but anyone asking for more work from their staff should expect to pay...No matter what the industry. How many people here working for the man are doing more work now for the same pay they were making 2 years ago? Who thinks that's right?

Originally Posted by Chitown

Do you know what the cost of living is in the city of chicago? For every wage increase there is a tax that also increases to cancel it out. Its not the city workers that are responsible for the economic downward spiral. Its your private sector! The banks! Go beef on the CEOs and their bonuses. Go beef to the Loan officers who were greedy, approving loans to people who should not been approved just to get commission. Dont beef on a respectable job with a modest living. Beef about college kids EXPECTING a six figure salary right out of college but yet complain about a city workers five figure salary with job security because they aren't wealthy right out of college. Beef on the stock brokerage firms making billions stealing money! But yet everyone complains about the average city workers five figure pension and modest salary. Also city workers pay up to 10% of their salary every paycheck into the pension system and cannot collect social security. Its not free money, its something that is earned! Wakeup! Why should they make minimum wage? They go to college too.

I do, I lived there for 21 years. No one says don't pay them, just make it fair like Barry says (mr. Bought and sold by unions). The inner city schools sucked, big time, and yes it is the parents problem. There are a myriad of reasons to consider, one being the entitlement generation that thinks everything should be handed to them by the government. Many aren't of that attitude though I have seen this with my own eyes in Chicago, Houston and Indianapolis. Those are three very different cities mind you.

Originally Posted by Dale Mabry

Or the rich...Or the seniors...or the college students...Every body should take a hit to pay for this, but anyone asking for more work from their staff should expect to pay...No matter what the industry. How many people here working for the man are doing more work now for the same pay they were making 2 years ago? Who thinks that's right?

No one said it is right, in many cases profits are so slim there isnt much to go around. I think if you are asked to step up, step up, just know it will have to be compensated for or the best workers will leave for better pay or less hours at the same pay. Teachers have a shitty job, in the last 15 years the school system has been fucked by local, state and federal involvement that it is a miracle most that graduate aren't dumb as rocks. It is as bad as the healthcare system; throwing money at it never fixed a damn thing.

Originally Posted by oufinny

No one said it is right, in many cases profits are so slim there isnt much to go around. I think if you are asked to step up, step up, just know it will have to be compensated for or the best workers will leave for better pay or less hours at the same pay. Teachers have a shitty job, in the last 15 years the school system has been fucked by local, state and federal involvement that it is a miracle most that graduate aren't dumb as rocks. It is as bad as the healthcare system; throwing money at it never fixed a damn thing.

That's bullshit. Companies are raking in record profits. Even small businesses are doing pretty good. I stopped working for the man 6 years ago because I saw it for what it was. Even if you don't work for a big corp, small businesses are no better. I know so many people, my wife included, who work for people who employ less than 10 people. My wife's office has 4 total employees including the owner. The owner is a nice enough guy, but I got to go to his daughter's bat mitzvah which cost a small fortune. His kids want for nothing and probably throw away more shit than most kids get. The human condition is to provide for your family, your employees come in after your least favorite family member. You need to pick your boss, make sure he has very few kids and very reasonable tastes. If he likes expensive shit and has a lot of kids, look elsewhere. Even better...Become great at something and work for yourself.

Originally Posted by Dale Mabry

That's bullshit. Companies are raking in record profits. Even small businesses are doing pretty good. I stopped working for the man 6 years ago because I saw it for what it was. Even if you don't work for a big corp, small businesses are no better. I know so many people, my wife included, who work for people who employ less than 10 people. My wife's office has 4 total employees including the owner. The owner is a nice enough guy, but I got to go to his daughter's bat mitzvah which cost a small fortune. His kids want for nothing and probably throw away more shit than most kids get. The human condition is to provide for your family, your employees come in after your least favorite family member. You need to pick your boss, make sure he has very few kids and very reasonable tastes. If he likes expensive shit and has a lot of kids, look elsewhere. Even better...Become great at something and work for yourself.

And there you have it. If you think you are underpaid and your boss is making too much money, either find another job, start your own business or stay put and drink a big glass of STFU.

Originally Posted by Chitown

Everyone hates city workers when the economy is bad.........

No, that's not true. But you're damn sure not gonna win any friends during a bad economy by threatening to strike if you don't get a 30% pay increase.

Originally Posted by ALBOB

No, that's not true. But you're damn sure not gonna win any friends during a bad economy by threatening to strike if you don't get a 30% pay increase.

Yeah, public servants striking and impeding the education of the taxpayer's children when the public servants gets paid by said taxpayers is brilliant.

Originally Posted by Dale Mabry

The human condition is to provide for your family, your employees come in after your least favorite family member. You need to pick your boss, make sure he has very few kids and very reasonable tastes. If he likes expensive shit and has a lot of kids, look elsewhere. Even better...Become great at something and work for yourself.

when I first started looking for IT jobs in the mid 90's and would get an interview I would cruise the parking lot of the business in the am before the interview date to see what types of vehicles everyone drove. if I didn't see a fare amount of decent vehicles that was a sign that there was no income potential at that company and I would call off the interview.

there are definitely some good company owners and some cheap ass ones.

when i was working for CMP Media in the 90's and they got bought out they gave everyone in the company a $10K bonus. when the funeral home my gf works for sold their family business to a publicly traded company he pocketed about 400M and the employees got their bonuses slashed by 99% the year before the sale.

Originally Posted by LAM

and what percentage of those had to have a 4 year degree? and how many of them had to get an advanced degree such as a MA, etc.?

here in Vegas a teacher can't make a decent salary unless they have a MA + 16....those loans just don't pay themselves off

more education doesn't necessarily make someone a better teacher...a teacher need to connect with the students to get them to want to learn...simply having an advanced degree does nothing to fix a teacher's personality and ability to get the kids to follow them...

so, just like Gov Christie said "i you don't like it, then don't be a teacher"...

Originally Posted by irish_2003

more education doesn't necessarily make someone a better teacher...a teacher need to connect with the students to get them to want to learn...simply having an advanced degree does nothing to fix a teacher's personality and ability to get the kids to follow them...

so, just like Gov Christie said "i you don't like it, then don't be a teacher"...

Yeah, but do you want a bunch of retards teaching your kids? If the pay doesn't even meet the cost of education to get the job that's exactly what you're gonna get. Only an idiot would think that's acceptable.

Originally Posted by jagbender

In these times everyone needs to take a cut.
EXCEPT UNIONS

Though the union would not approve, I'd be willing to take a cut -- whether it's in the amount I'd have to pay for benefits or a pay freeze or even reduction in salary -- to maintain my career as an elementary school art teacher.

I recognize the efforts gone before me by union members who made an absurdly measly salary, but as someone who worked for $20K to $30K per year I do often believe that the money I make currently is absurdly ridiculously enormous.

That said, a ton of my income goes towards art supplies for my students. Are teachers asking too much? Not for me to decide, however considering the amount of money spent so unwisely I also believe that the arts and sports should be among the last of things to cut.

MY KIDS are very lucky Sarasota county Fl has a very stromg Arts support. MY oldest duaghter is in band and there is an excelletn program

Also Sarasota county rates in the 10 ten counties in FL

One of the reasons we relocated to this counry