Thread: ephys88 and other IM evolutionists, please explain the origin of the universe

Evolution is irrelevant to the beginning of the universe. You don't need an explanation of how the universe started to see all the incredible amount of proof of evolution.

Now, could you explain how god created the universe?

You demand so much evidence, yet completely dismiss that you have zero of your own.

I think the universe was created by a spaghetti monster who loves pirates. Prove me wrong. I even have gospels written by man detailing exactly how he did it. I challenge you to prove me wrong.

You should read a junior high biology book. Or an anthropology, zoology, paleontology, archaeology, or geology book.

You see, every area of the biological sciences on every civilized nation all agree that evolution is the unifying theory for all of them.

Do you not believe in atomic or germ theory either? Do you know that it's never been proven that matter is made up of atoms? That viruses and bacteria have never been proven to actually exist?

You should start a thread challenging the periodic table of elements or the existence of bacteria.

Lmao at creationists!

Originally Posted by exphys88

Evolution is irrelevant to the beginning of the universe. You don't need an explanation of how the universe started to see all the incredible amount of proof of evolution.

Now, could you explain how god created the universe?

You demand so much evidence, yet completely dismiss that you have zero of your own.

I think the universe was created by a spaghetti monster who loves pirates. Prove me wrong. I even have gospels written by man detailing exactly how he did it. I challenge you to prove me wrong.

that was disappointing... but not unanticipated ..

I was however, hoping for something less juvenile.. as i was sincere in making this thread.

though this thread is about evolution and what you evolutionists believe regarding the creation of the universe.. i suppose ill answer your question. We christians are aware, and readily and shamelessly admit that we have absolutely zero evidence that everything was created by god (though for some reason.. you have a hard time remembering this).

we operate on faith, which is of course, belief despite the absence of evidence. We believe that just because we cant sense god with our natural human senses, doesnt mean he isnt there (he is supposed to be supernatural isnt he?)




i wasnt asking you to prove me wrong.. i was asking for your perspective, but alright

I believe in the spaghetti monster theory

Faith is a license that religious people give each other to believe stupid shit.

Ill repeat, if you want answers, a mere study of any of the biological sciences will do much better than any of us.

Originally Posted by chucky1

I believe in the spaghetti monster theory

Chucky and I have faith in the correct god.

In our heaven, we get a stripper factory and a beer volcano.

Originally Posted by exphys88

You should read a junior high biology book. Or an anthropology, zoology, paleontology, archaeology, or geology book.

You see, every area of the biological sciences on every civilized nation all agree that evolution is the unifying theory for all of them.

Do you not believe in atomic or germ theory either? Do you know that it's never been proven that matter is made up of atoms? That viruses and bacteria have never been proven to actually exist?

You should start a thread challenging the periodic table of elements or the existence of bacteria.

Lmao at creationists!

are you going to explain your belief regarding the origin of the universe or not..? and i have read all of the texts you mentioned, except for zoology.

please explain your points.. ambiguity isnt helping at all

Originally Posted by exphys88

Faith is a license that religious people give each other to believe stupid shit.

Ill repeat, if you want answers, a mere study of any of the biological sciences will do much better than any of us.

possibly.. but i wanted your perspective, as you are almost always the first to sling the mud

i figured u would be well-versed in this subject and would basically have the answers to my questions memorized..

Originally Posted by Standard Donkey

are you going to explain your belief regarding the origin of the universe or not..? and i have read all of the texts you mentioned, except for zoology.

please explain your points.. ambiguity isnt helping at all

I don't have a clue how it started. Honestly, it's irrelevant because ill never know.
I do know that life on earth evolved though. It's not even debatable among scientists, just a few crazy creationists in America and not really in any other nation.

I'm fine admitting that I don't know, I don't need to convince myself of something crazy.

There is a book by Bill Bryson which, to me, is the best layman's guide to understanding so much of the science behind evolution and the universe. Bill Bryson is an author, not a physicist, paleontologist or archaeologist...just a man who set out to learn and understand and then explain what he learned in a way that most others can understand.
As a physicist myself I avoid "conversations" with "creationists" or anyone else whose scientific beliefs are based in or trumped by their religions beliefs or upbringing as the "conversations" are more or less arguments and pointless. I did not become a physicist in order to try and change anyone else's mind.
I have respect for the beliefs and points of view of others even if I don't share those beliefs.

If you're truly serious about wanting to understand evolution this book is a great place to start.
The book, in it's entirety is available in pdf form here: A Short History of Nearly Everything by Bill Bryson.

It's just under 300 pages and is worth the read...by anyone, layman and scientist alike.

no one knows
why argue

Originally Posted by chucky1

I believe in the spaghetti monster theory

Originally Posted by exphys88

Chucky and I have faith in the correct god.

In our heaven, we get a stripper factory and a beer volcano.

How DARE YOU mock the being known as the spaghetti monster???

Originally Posted by Standard Donkey

possibly.. but i wanted your perspective, as you are almost always the first to sling the mud

i figured u would be well-versed in this subject and would basically have the answers to my questions memorized..

Evolution is my area if expertise, not astronomy, sorry.

I do know that I trust the conclusions of the most educated astronomers and physicists rather than men from 2000 years ago who were pretty stupid about the world and universe.

Originally Posted by exphys88

I don't have a clue how it started. Honestly, it's irrelevant because ill never know.
I do know that life on earth evolved though. It's not even debatable among scientists, just a few crazy creationists in America and not really in any other nation.

I'm fine admitting that I don't know, I don't need to convince myself of something crazy.

i agree that life evolved as well.. however im willing to bet that the degrees to which we believe that life evolved differ greatly.


do you believe that all life evolved from a single-celled organism? or some sort of organic slime-type substance?

these are sincere questions, im not attempting to insult your beliefs or act petty, though you seem to be wanting to take things in that direction

Originally Posted by KILLEROFSAINTS

no one knows
why argue

precisely.

however, the evolutionists among us seem more than willing to mock creationist beliefs regarding the origin of the universe whereas exphys just admitted that he himself has no idea regarding the subject.

which would seem to make my belief as valid as his, yet he is willing to insult mine

Originally Posted by Standard Donkey

i agree that life evolved as well.. however im willing to bet that the degrees to which we believe that life evolved differ greatly.


do you believe that all life evolved from a single-celled organism? or some sort of organic slime-type substance?

these are sincere questions, im not attempting to insult your beliefs or act petty, though you seem to be wanting to take things in that direction

I apologize for my tone, but your reputation warranted that type of response, as I assumed you were trying to argue. I can have a regular conversation.

They're not beliefs btw.

Organic material must've come before a single cell organism. But, the beauty of science is that the more we learn, the more we exact the explanation of what happened.

Originally Posted by Standard Donkey

precisely.

however, the evolutionists among us seem more than willing to mock creationist beliefs regarding the origin of the universe whereas exphys just admitted that he himself has no idea regarding the subject.

which would seem to make my belief as valid as his, yet he is willing to insult mine

Wrong! We do know that evolution is real, just like we know material is made up of atoms and viruses and bacteria cause disease. Don't get caught up on the wording of theory.

There is a huge difference between a belief and a scientific theory that has withstood scrutiny for over 150 years.

Creationism, especially the young earth creationists that think the earth is 6000 years old and an entire race was bred by 2 humans is just FUCKING STUPID and warrants ridicule.

i guess i beleive in evolution aided by something

so many things in my life are tiny miracles...i could have been dead a hundred different ways by now...i could call a ditch with a newspaper for a blanket home like i used to
i have no idea why some people rise up and others never can or do but i am so grateful for my blessings...i never thought i would belong anywhere


end scene

Originally Posted by exphys88

I apologize for my tone, but your reputation warranted that type of response, as I assumed you were trying to argue. I can have a regular conversation.

They're not beliefs btw.

Organic material must've come before a single cell organism. But, the beauty of science is that the more we learn, the more we exact the explanation of what happened.

i have an evolutionist friend who believes that existence originated from a "superior being".. he just refuses to call it "god".. lol, has to be some other being other than the christian deity.

so did all life eventually evolve from the same organic substance? if this is the case, then why is there so much different shit?

also, did plants evolve? if so, from what?

Originally Posted by exphys88

Wrong! We do know that evolution is real, just like we know material is made up of atoms and viruses and bacteria cause disease. Don't get caught up on the wording of theory.

There is a huge difference between a belief and a scientific theory that has withstood scrutiny for over 150 years.

Creationism, especially the young earth creationists that think the earth is 6000 years old and an entire race was bred by 2 humans is just FUCKING STUPID and warrants ridicule.

christians don't actually belief that.. it seems as though non-christians like to create an enormous strawman of the bible

Originally Posted by Standard Donkey

i have an evolutionist friend who believes that existence originated from a "superior being".. he just refuses to call it "god".. lol, has to be some other being other than the christian deity.

so did all life eventually evolve from the same organic substance? if this is the case, then why is there so much different shit?

also, did plants evolve? if so, from what?

Yes, it all originated from the same cell, including plants. You'd be surprised how big of a percentage of our DNA is exactly the same as a plants.

Different shit is due to a lot if factors, some if which we have not discovered and some that we know like natural selection. And billions of years.

Originally Posted by Standard Donkey

christians don't actually belief that.. it seems as though non-christians like to create an enormous strawman of the bible

Are you sure? Every single creationist ive talked to believe that. The leaders of the creationist movement believe that. The creationism museum in Kentucky actually has dinosaurs w saddles on them lol.

We share 50% of our DNA with a banana:

Human DNA similarities to chimps and bananas, what does it mean?


When I was a child I remember hearing humans came from monkeys. I asked myself, "Then why are monkeys still around?" A valid question. The problem with the initial statement though is that we did not come from monkeys, but rather we share a common ancestor. When it comes to common ancestors and evolution, genetic sequencing has provided a great understanding.

I'm sure you've heard it before; humans and chimpanzees are about 98.8% similar. What does that really mean though? This number refers to comparing single nucleotide changes in the DNA, or changes in the sequence of the A,C,G,T code.

Comparing genetic duplications in genes, the number lowers to 96%. What's a duplication? As Even Eichler of University of Washington says, if we consider the genetic code as a book, entire pages will be repeated in one species but not the other. So conservatively, we are 96% alike with out closest cousin. Here's some other common animals and our genetic similarites (these numbers are consistent across all reliable sources):

Cat: 90%
Cow: 80%
Mouse: 75%
Fruit Fly: 60%
Banana: 50%


Interesting to look at. What I find most fascinating is the 50% match to bananas! Animal and plant life share so much ancient DNA coding from way back when plant and animal life diverged approximately 1.5 billion years ago.

The sequencing technology allowing for genetic comparison has been huge for anthropologists and evolutionary biologists. Anthropologists have used comparisons of genes between humans and our closest cousins to better understand when and how genetic variations occurred. Evolution was already well established before this technology existed with fossil records, embryology, comparisons of skeletal systems, study of vestigal appendages, and finally the understanding of the driver of evolution: natural selection. Genetic sequencing confirmed our understanding of species divergence and evolution, and also allowed scientists to better understand and build the the fascinating "tree of life."

Originally posted 3/4/2011: Posted by Michael Musso at: Gene Cuisine: Human DNA similarities to chimps and bananas, what does it mean?

Originally Posted by exphys88

Are you sure? Every single creationist ive talked to believe that. The leaders of the creationist movement believe that. The creationism museum in Kentucky actually has dinosaurs w saddles on them lol.

the bible implies that god had created other people, or that other people existed on earth.. for example, god marked cain after he killed his brother, so that "no one" would kill him.. etc.

i doubt your assertions.. but if they are correct, the people you mentioned should read the bible, but also take much of it with a grain of salt as it is highly symbolic and material has been lost in translation

Originally Posted by Paranoid Fitness

We share 50% of our DNA with a banana:

Human DNA similarities to chimps and bananas, what does it mean?


When I was a child I remember hearing humans came from monkeys. I asked myself, "Then why are monkeys still around?" A valid question. The problem with the initial statement though is that we did not come from monkeys, but rather we share a common ancestor. When it comes to common ancestors and evolution, genetic sequencing has provided a great understanding.

I'm sure you've heard it before; humans and chimpanzees are about 98.8% similar. What does that really mean though? This number refers to comparing single nucleotide changes in the DNA, or changes in the sequence of the A,C,G,T code.

Comparing genetic duplications in genes, the number lowers to 96%. What's a duplication? As Even Eichler of University of Washington says, if we consider the genetic code as a book, entire pages will be repeated in one species but not the other. So conservatively, we are 96% alike with out closest cousin. Here's some other common animals and our genetic similarites (these numbers are consistent across all reliable sources):

Cat: 90%
Cow: 80%
Mouse: 75%
Fruit Fly: 60%
Banana: 50%


Interesting to look at. What I find most fascinating is the 50% match to bananas! Animal and plant life share so much ancient DNA coding from way back when plant and animal life diverged approximately 1.5 billion years ago.

The sequencing technology allowing for genetic comparison has been huge for anthropologists and evolutionary biologists. Anthropologists have used comparisons of genes between humans and our closest cousins to better understand when and how genetic variations occurred. Evolution was already well established before this technology existed with fossil records, embryology, comparisons of skeletal systems, study of vestigal appendages, and finally the understanding of the driver of evolution: natural selection. Genetic sequencing confirmed our understanding of species divergence and evolution, and also allowed scientists to better understand and build the the fascinating "tree of life."

Originally posted 3/4/2011: Posted by Michael Musso at: Gene Cuisine: Human DNA similarities to chimps and bananas, what does it mean?

your post is not saying that we evolved from a banana, rather.. we were once the same substance, and some of that substance evolved into a banana, and some of that substance evolved into a human?

Originally Posted by Standard Donkey

the bible implies that god had created other people, or that other people existed on earth.. for example, god marked cain after he killed his brother, so that "no one" would kill him.. etc.

i doubt your assertions.. but if they are correct, the people you mentioned should read the bible, but also take much of it with a grain of salt as it is highly symbolic and material has been lost in translation

It's nice to think that but most Americans believe in a literal interpretation of the bible. You are among a minority.

Do you believe that humans lived alongside dinosaurs?

Originally Posted by Standard Donkey

your post is not saying that we evolved from a banana, rather.. we were once the same substance, and some of that substance evolved into a banana, and some of that substance evolved into a human?

No, it's saying we share a common ancestor.
At some point, cells broke off into their different classifications: plants, mammals, Protozoa etc.

Originally Posted by Standard Donkey

your post is not saying that we evolved from a banana, rather.. we were once the same substance, and some of that substance evolved into a banana, and some of that substance evolved into a human?

Pretty much hit the nail on the head. I was not the original author of that article.