Texas town allows teachers to carry concealed guns

**heavyiron** · 12-20-2012, 10:24 AM

By ANGELA K. BROWN, AP
8 hours ago

This Monday, Dec. 17, 2012 photo shows the sign in front of the Harrold Inde...

HARROLD, Texas - In this tiny Texas town, children and their parents don't give much thought to safety at the community's lone school - mostly because some of the teachers are carrying concealed weapons.

In remote Harrold, the nearest sheriff's office is 30 minutes away, and people tend to know - and trust - one another. So the school board voted to let teachers bring guns to school.

"We don't have money for a security guard, but this is a better solution," Superintendent David Thweatt said. "A shooter could take out a guard or officer with a visible, holstered weapon, but our teachers have master's degrees, are older and have had extensive training. And their guns are hidden. We can protect our children."

In the awful aftermath of last week's Connecticut elementary school shooting, lawmakers in a growing number of states - including Oklahoma, Missouri, Minnesota, South Dakota and Oregon - have said they will consider laws allowing teachers and school administrators to carry firearms at school.

Texas law bans guns in schools unless the school has given written authorization. Arizona and six other states have similar laws with exceptions for people who have licenses to carry concealed weapons.

Harrold's school board voted unanimously in 2007 to allow employees to carry weapons. After obtaining a state concealed-weapons permit, each employee who wants to carry a weapon must be approved by the board based on his or her personality and reaction to a crisis, Thweatt said.

Employees also must undergo training in crisis intervention and hostage situations. And they must use bullets that minimize the risk of ricochet, similar to those carried by air marshals on planes.

CaRae Reinisch, who lives in the nearby community of Elliott, said she took her children out of a larger school and enrolled them in Harrold two years ago, partly because she felt they would be safer in a building with armed teachers.

"I think it's a great idea for trained teachers to carry weapons," Reinish said. "But I hate that it has come to this."

The superintendent won't disclose how many of the school's 50 employees carry weapons, saying that revealing that number might jeopardize school security.

The school, about 150 miles northwest of Fort Worth near the Oklahoma border, has 103 students from kindergarten through 12th grade. Most of them rarely think about who is carrying a gun.

"This is the first time in a long time that I've thought about it," said Matt Templeton, the principal's 17-year-old son. "And that's because of what happened" in Connecticut.

Thweatt said other Texas schools allow teachers to carry weapons, but he would not reveal their locations, saying they are afraid of negative publicity.

The Texas Education Agency said it had not heard of any other schools with such a policy. And the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence did not know of any other districts nationwide that allow school employees to carry concealed handguns.

But that may change soon.

Oklahoma state Rep. Mark McCullough said he is working on a bill that would allow teachers and administrators to receive firearms training through the Council on Law Enforcement Education and Training, which would authorize them to carry weapons at school and at school events. Other states are proposing or considering similar measures.

However, Michigan Gov. Rick Snyder this week vetoed legislation that would have allowed concealed weapons in schools, churches and day care centers, saying he seeks a more "thoughtful review" that includes school emergency policies and mental health-related issues.

In Texas, guns have an honored place in the state's culture, and politicians often describe owning a gun as essential to being Texan. At the state Capitol, concealed handgun license holders are allowed to skip the metal detectors that scan visitors.

Gov. Rick Perry has indicated he would prefer to give gun owners the widest possible latitude. Just days after the Connecticut attack, Perry said permit holders should be able to carry concealed weapons in any public place.

Last year, many Texas lawmakers supported a plan to give college students and professors with concealed handgun licenses the right to carry guns on campus, but the measure failed.

Opponents insist that having more people armed at a school, especially teachers or administrators who aren't trained to deal with crime on a daily basis, could lead to more injuries and deaths. They point to an August shooting outside the Empire State Building, where police killed a laid-off clothing designer after he fatally shot his former colleague. Nine bystanders were wounded by police gunfire, ricochets and fragments.

"You are going to put teachers, people teaching 6-year-olds in a school, and expect them to respond to an active-shooter situation?" said Ladd Everitt, a spokesman for the Washington, D.C.-based Coalition to Stop Gun Violence, who called the idea of arming teachers "madness."

Kristin Rowe-Finkbeiner said she would not have felt better if teachers at her children's Seattle school had been armed during a May shooting at a nearby cafe. A gunman killed four people at the cafe and another woman during a carjacking before killing himself. The school went on lockdown as a precaution.

"It would be highly concerning to me to know that guns were around my kids each and every day. ... Increasing our arms is not the answer," said Rowe-Finkbeiner, co-founder and CEO of MomsRising.org.

Dan Gross, president of the Brady Campaign, said focusing on arming teachers distracts from the "real things" that could help prevent a school shooting "and at worse it furthers a dangerous conversation that only talks about guns as protection without a discussion about the serious risks they present."

As the debate continues, Harrold's school plans to leave its policy unchanged.

"Nothing is 100 percent at all. ... But hope makes for a terrible plan, hoping that (a tragedy) won't happen," Thweatt said. "My question is: What have you done about it? How have you planned?"
___
Associated Press writers Juan A. Lozano in Houston and Nomaan Merchant in Dallas contributed to this report.

**troubador** · 12-20-2012, 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by heavyiron

"You are going to put teachers, people teaching 6-year-olds in a school, and expect them to respond to an active-shooter situation?" said Ladd Everitt, a spokesman for the Washington, D.C.-based Coalition to Stop Gun Violence, who called the idea of arming teachers "madness."

The real benefit to this is the number of mass shootings it will prevent from being attempted and that'll you'll never know about.

The article mentions the shooting in NYC where cops killed a bunch of bystanders. It failed to mention that NYC cops use a glock with a 12lb trigger pull. I probably couldn't hit anything with a 12lb trigger either.

**DOMS** · 12-20-2012, 10:37 AM

This! This is how you cut down on school shootings.

**IronAddict** · 12-20-2012, 11:01 AM

Originally Posted by DOMS

This! This is how you cut down on school shootings.

This would also be beneficial in getting lil Johnnies naughty ass to pay attention.

**DOMS** · 12-20-2012, 11:07 AM

Originally Posted by IronAddict

This would also be beneficial in getting lil Johnnies naughty ass to pay attention.

Bullets for the mass murders, pistol-whipping for the students.

**IronAddict** · 12-20-2012, 11:34 AM

Originally Posted by DOMS

Bullets for the mass murders, pistol-whipping for the students.

Why now it makes perfect sense!

**ALBOB** · 12-20-2012, 11:40 AM

This is the most utterly, absurdly, OBVIOUS solution to the problem it's almost commical. But again, mention something like this in a room full of gun controll advocates and you better plug your ears. The shrieks of horror and outrage will be deafening.

**Chino007** · 12-20-2012, 11:44 AM

Fuck postal

**thane22** · 12-20-2012, 11:52 AM

Sadly due to Americas gun laws I see this as a good idea. Even though I am against guns... strange...

**Little Wing** · 12-20-2012, 12:05 PM

posted this on facebook earlier

how many kids would be dead if when the school shootings started happening we did the sensible thing and put armed guards in schools? the only citizens that would turn over their guns are the law abiding ones. common sense people, get some.

**Little Wing** · 12-20-2012, 12:09 PM

a lot of things can easily be put in perspective if you think what would they do in a small town in the old west? they would have armed guards at the schools, they would shoot crooked bankers, they would hang rapists etc. too much bullshit clouding the modern mind to just see plain old right from wrong and get shit done.

**Chino007** · 12-20-2012, 12:21 PM

Am second amendment right to bear arms maybe a special lis to carry high cap magize high power guns like mac 11 bushmaster 223 ak mpk etc..

**maniclion** · 12-20-2012, 02:14 PM

1996 my little Texas school used to allow us to park our trucks on school property with guns on the gun racks. Our principal and coaches used to go hunting with the guys in the mornings and evenings...

**LAM** · 12-20-2012, 02:30 PM

Originally Posted by ALBOB

This is the most utterly, absurdly, OBVIOUS solution to the problem it's almost commical. But again, mention something like this in a room full of gun controll advocates and you better plug your ears. The shrieks of horror and outrage will be deafening.

might as well just pay some mercs from Blackwater and post them up at all the schools.

teachers and guns what an optimum learning environment for US students who are already dropping down the educational ranks of the OECD with ease. and of course the US would be the ONLY country in the OECD even considering such a radical non-solution.

**jagbender** · 12-20-2012, 02:37 PM

An armed society is a polite society.

**LAM** · 12-20-2012, 02:56 PM

Originally Posted by jagbender

An armed society is a polite society.

the US is the most heavily armed society by far in world history and we are far from polite. with 9 firearms for every 10 persons how much more is needed?

**ALBOB** · 12-20-2012, 03:04 PM

Originally Posted by LAM

might as well just pay some mercs from Blackwater and post them up at all the schools.

teachers and guns what an optimum learning environment for US students who are already dropping down the educational ranks of the OECD with ease. and of course the US would be the ONLY country in the OECD even considering such a radical non-solution.

Ever heard of Isreal? And this "radical non-solution" makes a Hell of a lot more sense than any of the dumbass proposals I've heard floating around the airwaves in the past couple of days.

**DOMS** · 12-20-2012, 03:44 PM

Originally Posted by ALBOB

Ever heard of Isreal? And this "radical non-solution" makes a Hell of a lot more sense than any of the dumbass proposals I've heard floating around the airwaves in the past couple of days.

Israel works because it's a small, mostly homogenous, society. The problem with the USA is that it's a mix of many cultures -- most from third-world countries.

**Swiper** · 12-20-2012, 04:03 PM

Originally Posted by LAM

might as well just pay some mercs from Blackwater and post them up at all the schools.

teachers and guns what an optimum learning environment for US students who are already dropping down the educational ranks of the OECD with ease. and of course the US would be the ONLY country in the OECD even considering such a radical non-solution.

since govt schools are a complete failure, would you support an all private education system in the US?

**Bowden** · 12-20-2012, 04:05 PM

They should arm all of the students as well as the teachers.
Just think about how much safer a first grader would be if they were all packing.

Besides that it is a violation of their Second Amendment rights for them not to be allowed to bear arms.
The Second Amendment states nothing about not being applicable to first graders.
As well you never know when a child militia may be needed to protect freedom.

**Bowden** · 12-20-2012, 04:16 PM

These children are all packing and very safe from any insane individual invading their school to murder them.
As well I bet that big government would never fuck with them.

Guns for the Children

Our Mission

Kids in developed countries are at much more of an advantage when it comes to having quality weapons. In underdeveloped countries many kids are stuck using small knives or stones. The fortunate ones are able to get machetes. At Guns for the Children we are trying our best to provide quality and dependable arms and ammunition to children whose only wrongdoing was not being born in the best country in the world the United States.

**DOMS** · 12-20-2012, 04:19 PM

Originally Posted by Bowden

They should arm all of the students as well as the teachers.
Just think about how much safer a first grader would be if they were all packing.

Besides that it is a violation of their Second Amendment rights for them not to be allowed to bear arms.
The Second Amendment states nothing about not being applicable to first graders.
As well you never know when a child militia may be needed to protect freedom.

If you're doing sarcasm, it's the Insception of sarcasm.

**Bowden** · 12-20-2012, 04:26 PM

Originally Posted by DOMS

If you're doing sarcasm, it's the Insception of sarcasm.

I am a strong believer in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.
In the Constitution and Bill of Rights the right to bear arms as worded is applicable to all people.
Children are people .

True conservatives that strongly support Second Amendment rights as worded must agree that children have the right to bear arms.
Only a liberal that does not support the Second Amendment as worded and that thinks that law should not be based on the constitution without interpretation would disagree with the right of children to bear arms.

Amendment II
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

**ALBOB** · 12-20-2012, 04:33 PM

Originally Posted by Bowden

I am a strong believer in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.
In the Constitution and Bill of Rights the right to bear arms as worded is applicable to all people.
Children are people .

True conservatives that strongly support Second Amendment rights as worded must agree.

Amendment II
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

ALBOB = true conservative? Yep

ALBOB = strongly supports Second Amendment rights? Yep

ALBOB = MUST agree? Uhhhhhhh no, not so much.

**Bowden** · 12-20-2012, 04:43 PM

Originally Posted by ALBOB

ALBOB = true conservative? Yep

ALBOB = strongly supports Second Amendment rights? Yep

ALBOB = MUST agree? Uhhhhhhh no, not so much.

So the Second Amendment rights of the people under the constitution are not based on the ACTUAL wording of the Second Amendment?
Where in the wording of the Second Amendment does it state that there is an age dependency as to rights granted under the Second Amendment?

Amendment II
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

This is the point that conservatives that think that law should be based only on the constitution as worded start to get into a bit of difficulty in the case of the Second Amendment.
As worded, the Second Amendment grants the right to keep and bear arms to all citizens regardless of their age under the constitution.

**DOMS** · 12-20-2012, 04:56 PM

Originally Posted by Bowden

I am a strong believer in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.
In the Constitution and Bill of Rights the right to bear arms as worded is applicable to all people.
Children are people .

True conservatives that strongly support Second Amendment rights as worded must agree that children have the right to bear arms.
Only a liberal that does not support the Second Amendment as worded and that thinks that law should not be based on the constitution without interpretation would disagree with the right of children to bear arms.

Amendment II
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

I guessing that you're serious. If so, you're wrong. Completely and absolutely. Children do not have the rights and privileges of adults. This includes the right to own gun. At the time of the Second Ammendment, woman and minorities weren't afforded all the rights of a citizens, i.e., white males. They've since been given the full rights and privileges of a full citizen. Whereas, children have not...because -- and this may come as a shocker to you -- they're not adults as seen by the law. There's even a federal law stipulating that gun ownership cannot occur until a citizen's 18th birthday.

So no, they've don't have the right to possess guns. So you can pack that nonsense up.

**Bowden** · 12-20-2012, 04:57 PM

Any intelligent person can see that Second Amendment is a product of the time in which it was written.
It was written just after the revolutionary war during which Organized Militias played a critical role.

Organized Militias are a key element in the rational of the Founding Fathers as to the right under the constitution of Americans to keep and bear arms.
That is so that American citizens can be called upon as required and be incorporated into a well organized Militia in-order to defend a free state.

That is why the second Amendment it is written in the way that it was and why all Americans that own weapons have a responsibility under the constitution to serve if called upon within a well organized militia as required to defend our free state and way of life.

This part of the Second Amendment "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State", is just as critical is this part "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." as to the entire concept of the Second Amendment

The two parts together embody the entire concept that resulted in the the Second Amendment.
They are the two parts of a whole concept.

**DOMS** · 12-20-2012, 05:01 PM

Originally Posted by Bowden

Any intelligent person can see that Second Amendment is a product of the time in which it was written.
It was written just after the revolutionary war during which Organized Militias played a critical role.

Organized Militias are a key element in the rational of the Founding Fathers as to the right under then constitution of Americans to keep and bear arms.
That is so they can be called upon as required and be incorporated into a well organized Militia as required to defend a free state.

That is why the second Amendment it is written in the way that it was.

I'm soooo glad we live in a time when politicians and police don't abuse their power. A time when our borders are sealed to protect American citizens. A time when the government isn't striping our rights in the name of terrorism and corporate wealth. A time when crime, especially violent crime, is non-existent.

It's just fan-fucking-tastic.

**irish_2003** · 12-20-2012, 05:09 PM

i'm not sure i agree with this since most teachers are delusional union backing libtards...

**Bowden** · 12-20-2012, 05:17 PM

Originally Posted by DOMS

I'm soooo glad we live in a time when politicians and police don't abuse their power. A time when our borders are sealed to protect American citizens. A time when the government isn't striping our rights in the name of terrorism and corporate wealth. A time when crime, especially violent crime, is non-existent.

It's just fan-fucking-tastic.

Yes it is.
However all armed Americans have an obligation under the constitution to serve in a well organized militia in defense of a free state.
The ones that own weapons and disagree that they are under that obligation related to them being subjected at any time to be called to serve in a well organized militia to defend our free state have no rights under the constitution to keep and bear arms as they are in disagreement the first part of the Second Amendment that requires them to do so to be granted the right under the constitution to keep and bear arms.

Americans are obligated under the constitution to use that weapon and serve in a well organized militia as required in defense of a free state and that obligation is the only reason under the constitution for Americans to own a weapon.

Amendment II
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

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