Thread: Fact check for Piers Morgan

I have seen that, too bad it will never get the press it deserves. Our King already put down his decrees today, legal or illegal as they may be, so we are all fucked anyways.

Originally Posted by jagbender

Well said, now I just need a new country to call home.

Love this new NRA Ad

There are many reasons so few people watch CNN anymore and this is one of them.

Originally Posted by Swfl

Well said, now I just need a new country to call home.

No, the people need to rise up and take this country back.

Originally Posted by NoCode8511

No, the people need to rise up and take this country back.

at no time in world history has an impoverished citizenry "taken back" a country from a ruling elite. it sounds good on paper but in reality it's never happened. the end result of the oligarchy is economic collapse.

mathematics beats ideology every single time. that's the difference between science vs beliefs, aka facts vs non-facts.

Lam, with respect what planet do you live on? World history is full of examples of people taking down ruling elites. Since you have tendency towards leaning to the left, does Cuba ring a bell? The only problem is usually the revolution just trades one set of ruling elites for another.

Originally Posted by dogsoldier

Lam, with respect what planet do you live on? World history is full of examples of people taking down ruling elites. Since you have tendency towards leaning to the left, does Cuba ring a bell? The only problem is usually the revolution just trades one set of ruling elites for another.

I dont even bother to read what Lam types.

Originally Posted by dogsoldier

Lam, with respect what planet do you live on? World history is full of examples of people taking down ruling elites. Since you have tendency towards leaning to the left, does Cuba ring a bell? The only problem is usually the revolution just trades one set of ruling elites for another.

then name one....

and this isn't about communist country's turning into pseudo-capitalist. name one time when the corrupt ruling elite has been successfully replaced with a non-corrupt ruling elite.

Originally Posted by NoCode8511

I dont even bother to read what Lam types.

and I would give a fuck about you why exactly? oh....that's right I don't...

Originally Posted by LAM

then name one....

and this isn't about communist country's turning into pseudo-capitalist. name one time when the corrupt ruling elite has been successfully replaced with a non-corrupt ruling elite.

I did give you one example. So you are saying the Cuba went from a Communist state to a capitalist one? I hope not.

Originally Posted by LAM

at no time in world history has an impoverished citizenry "taken back" a country from a ruling elite. it sounds good on paper but in reality it's never happened. the end result of the oligarchy is economic collapse.

mathematics beats ideology every single time. that's the difference between science vs beliefs, aka facts vs non-facts.

The math is there are more of us with guns than there are of them with guns.

Originally Posted by LAM

then name one....

and this isn't about communist country's turning into pseudo-capitalist. name one time when the corrupt ruling elite has been successfully replaced with a non-corrupt ruling elite.

The United States for one.

I've seen this video before. The real issue with Morgan's stats are they don't tell us anything. Anyone with a STEM background knows why.

Originally Posted by Zaphod

The United States for one.

but your wrong. each batch of politicians is just as corrupt as the last because the entire system is legally corrupt since the late 1800's. and the 2008 financial collapse and the current stalled US economy is a sign of the times.

you can't create wealth out of thin air and pay the majority of the workers poverty wages and expect an economy to last but a short while. there are no economists that even think capitalism and the current global financial system in it's current form is sustainable because it isn't. those same words having been repeated by the Club of Rome, the World Bank, the FSB and the BIS.

no economic system has lasted more than a couple hundred years.

Originally Posted by Zaphod

The math is there are more of us with guns than there are of them with guns.

and what do all those guns matter when they have shit bottled up in Fort Detrick that can make your skin slough off your face or have you shitting out your own intestines? what's a gun going to do against that?

how does a gun change supreme court decisions from the 1800's making corporations equal to real people?

how does a gun change supreme court decisions in the 1800's regarding lobbying?

how does a gun remove the central bank from controlling the US?

how does a gun change the completely ignorant that think inequality doesn't matter?

it's not the 1700's anymore and you can't fix stupid...

Since it's relevant to the whole debate/argument, I think it's appropriate to drop some quick FBI links here. It's the latest available reports from 2011, and maybe 2012 data will be available soon enough.

The general, if vaguely titled, list of data tables:

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/uc....s.-2011/tables

Murder victims by weapon, 2007 - 2011:

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/uc...de-data-table-8

General violent crime stats from 1992 to 2011:

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/uc.../tables/table-1

Murder by state and method, 2011:

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/uc...tables/table-20

Essentially, tragedies like Newtown aside, the data seems to suggest that violent crime in general has gone down over the last 20 years. Might be good to cite if you're writing a representative.

Originally Posted by Big Smoothy

Since it's relevant to the whole debate/argument, I think it's appropriate to drop some quick FBI links here. It's the latest available reports from 2011, and maybe 2012 data will be available soon enough.

The general, if vaguely titled, list of data tables:

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/uc....s.-2011/tables

Murder victims by weapon, 2007 - 2011:

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/uc...de-data-table-8

General violent crime stats from 1992 to 2011:

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/uc.../tables/table-1

Murder by state and method, 2011:

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/uc...tables/table-20

Essentially, tragedies like Newtown aside, the data seems to suggest that violent crime in general has gone down over the last 20 years. Might be good to cite if you're writing a representative.

Smoothy you and I rarely see eye to eye on things, but in this I consider you a brother. well done withe the appropriate links.

Originally Posted by LAM

but your wrong. each batch of politicians is just as corrupt as the last because the entire system is legally corrupt since the late 1800's. and the 2008 financial collapse and the current stalled US economy is a sign of the times.

you can't create wealth out of thin air and pay the majority of the workers poverty wages and expect an economy to last but a short while. there are no economists that even think capitalism and the current global financial system in it's current form is sustainable because it isn't. those same words having been repeated by the Club of Rome, the World Bank, the FSB and the BIS.

no economic system has lasted more than a couple hundred years.

The Revolutionary War took down the ruling elites in this country.

Originally Posted by LAM

and what do all those guns matter when they have shit bottled up in Fort Detrick that can make your skin slough off your face or have you shitting out your own intestines? what's a gun going to do against that?

how does a gun change supreme court decisions from the 1800's making corporations equal to real people?

how does a gun change supreme court decisions in the 1800's regarding lobbying?

how does a gun remove the central bank from controlling the US?

how does a gun change the completely ignorant that think inequality doesn't matter?

it's not the 1700's anymore and you can't fix stupid...

I'd wager most of the military members believe in their oath to defend this country from threats foreign and domestic. All those chemical weapons will continue to sit.

Guns are a fantastic equalizer.

You guys can't be serious. I'm for some gun control, and you have less than a zero chance of overtaking the elites. You have guns, they have aircraft, tanks, nukes, and a host of other things you will never have access to. They also have a trained military at their disposal. We are also a population of people who believe in capitalism, you don't think your neighbor would sell you down the river for a small sum of money or land? Then why do you think someone who's never met you that is in the military wouldn't do the same? Yes, we won the Revolutionary War against a country that was thousands of miles away who only had boats. If they had tanks and aircraft and we didn't we'd still be saluting the Queen. Get real, a revolution would be squashed faster than when we invaded Iraq.

Originally Posted by bio-chem

Smoothy you and I rarely see eye to eye on things, but in this I consider you a brother. well done withe the appropriate links.

Cheers, bio-chem,

But I honestly think you and I agree on a lot more of things than we have discussed on the forum.

Originally Posted by Dale Mabry

You guys can't be serious. I'm for some gun control, and you have less than a zero chance of overtaking the elites. You have guns, they have aircraft, tanks, nukes, and a host of other things you will never have access to.

So you seriously think it would be in the federal government's best interest to start nuking its own soil? All the infrastructure and resources they destroy are losses to them too. This total annihilation scenario sounds less likely to me than a successful revolt.

Also, I believe an armed populace will less likely have a reason to revolt.

Originally Posted by Zaphod

The Revolutionary War took down the ruling elites in this country.

no the revolutionary war is how great britain suckered the US into debt via war and how the privately owned "Bank of North America" was chartered in 1782 after Congress would not renew the charter for the 1st US central bank, the Bank of England.

one central bank was simply replaced by another....nothing changed as the international money lenders once again had control of US currency.

Originally Posted by Dale Mabry

You guys can't be serious. I'm for some gun control, and you have less than a zero chance of overtaking the elites. You have guns, they have aircraft, tanks, nukes, and a host of other things you will never have access to. They also have a trained military at their disposal. We are also a population of people who believe in capitalism, you don't think your neighbor would sell you down the river for a small sum of money or land?

straight from the Club of Rome's website:
Enough is Enough. Enough is Enough. It's time for a new kind of economy.

"Never-ending economic growth is not possible on a finite planet; nor is it improving the lives of people in wealthy nations. In Enough Is Enough, Rob Dietz and Dan O?Neill lay out a visionary but realistic alternative to the perpetual pursuit of economic growth?an economy where the goal is enough, not more. They explore specific strategies to conserve natural resources, stabilize population, reduce inequality, fix the financial system, create jobs, and more?all with the aim of maximizing long-term well-being instead of short-term profits."

Originally Posted by Dale Mabry

You guys can't be serious. I'm for some gun control, and you have less than a zero chance of overtaking the elites. You have guns, they have aircraft, tanks, nukes, and a host of other things you will never have access to. They also have a trained military at their disposal. We are also a population of people who believe in capitalism, you don't think your neighbor would sell you down the river for a small sum of money or land? Then why do you think someone who's never met you that is in the military wouldn't do the same? Yes, we won the Revolutionary War against a country that was thousands of miles away who only had boats. If they had tanks and aircraft and we didn't we'd still be saluting the Queen. Get real, a revolution would be squashed faster than when we invaded Iraq.

I will have to respectfully disagree. Our military is made up mostly of people from middle class and lower. All those people drive the tanks and planes and are in the infantry.

Originally Posted by LAM

no the revolutionary war is how great britain suckered the US into debt via war and how the privately owned "Bank of North America" was chartered in 1782 after Congress would not renew the charter for the 1st US central bank, the Bank of England.

one central bank was simply replaced by another....nothing changed as the international money lenders once again had control of US currency.

So we are still under British rule?

Originally Posted by Zaphod

So we are still under British rule?

if you want to be technical we are under the rule of the owners of the Fed, but the Fed Res system takes it's orders from the Financial Stability Board (FSB) which is is governed by the Bank of International Settlements (BIS) which in turn is owned and controlled by the families that own the Fed Res system.

any country that is not in control of it's currency or debt is not sovereign.

people "talk" about taking the country back with force but that would more than likely cause the USD to completely crash along with the entire US and global economy given it's fragile state right now how many people would actually be willing to start over again at $0 in total wealth at this point in time in their lives?

I guarantee not many of the baby-boomers that account for 1/3 of the total US population, and another 1/3 of the total population is under 18 and don't really have a clue what's going on.