Obamacare good?

Obamacare Finds Its Cost Savings

healthcare reform ultimately boils down to how we pay our doctors? If we want to have the best care available here in the US we are going to have to realize that healthcare is expensive. It is a finite resource. We are going to spend more money for less coverage, and in the long term the quality of care is going to suffer. I hope everyone who voted for the representatives in favor of this realize what they are getting.

If you want the best doctors. you better be willing to pay for the best doctors.

If you can't afford to see any doctors having the best available is pretty much pointless.

GAO reported obamacare will add 6.2 trillion to the deficit.

everything Obama said about Obama care was a lie.

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Originally Posted by Swiper

GAO reported obamacare will add 6.2 trillion to the deficit.

everything Obama said about Obama care was a lie.

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Barry is a Lie

Obamacare is good, if you are one of the 40 million + in America that has no other way to get health care than to show up in an hospital emergency room or do without health care .
It's bad, if you are someone with private health care insurance that has no objection to uninsured health care costs being shifted to you and increasing your insurance premium and medical bills.

What people don't understand or refuse to acknowledge is that there is a massive redistribution of cost in the health care industry from uninsured to insured related to uninsured health care costs.

Either way, you do now and will pay in the future for uninsured health care costs for people that either are unemployed and do not have private health insurance, or people whose employers will not provide it.
Like you indirectly currently do for uninsured health care for other people through cost shifting from uninsured to insured that is reflected in hospital cost shifting and higher hospital bills for insured patients, medical provider and insurance company cost shifting to insured patients.
Or like you will directly through increased taxes to fund Obamacare.

One thing positive about Obamacare is that it will force the freeloaders who could afford health care insurance but chose not to buy it to buy it.
If uninsured they get in a car accident or need major medical care for an illness and they cannot afford it out of pocket, so the rest of us pay for it.
I have no pity on those jerks what so ever.

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Originally Posted by Bowden

Obamacare is good, if you are one of the 40 million + in America that has no other way to get health care than to show up in an hospital emergency room or do without health care .
It's bad, if you are someone with private health care insurance that has no objection to uninsured health care costs being shifted to you and increasing your insurance premium and medical bills.

What people don't understand or refuse to acknowledge is that there is a massive redistribution of cost in the health care industry from uninsured to insured related to uninsured health care costs.

Either way, you do now and will pay in the future for uninsured health care costs for people that either are unemployed and do not have private health insurance, or people whose employers will not provide it.
Like you indirectly currently do for uninsured health care for other people through cost shifting from uninsured to insured that is reflected in hospital cost shifting and higher hospital bills for insured patients, medical provider and insurance company cost shifting to insured patients.
Or like you will directly through increased taxes to fund Obamacare.

One thing positive about Obamacare is that it will force the freeloaders who could afford health care insurance but chose not to buy it to buy it.
If uninsured they get in a car accident or need major medical care for an illness and they cannot afford it out of pocket, so the rest of us pay for it.
I have no pity on those jerks what so ever.

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Why should any one be forced to purchase any thing period. I don't buy into that crap, My dad hasnt had medical insurance for over 20 years and choices not to have it. He has gone to the ER and paid out of pocket for it and just does not believe that it is worth it for him due to him having a pre existing medical condition as a child they sky rocket his insurance plans, but he makes enough money to not qualify for any thing free from the Obama care. My dad probably makes close to 90k a year living in a cheap cost of living area. Why should he be forced period to purchase medical?

when we live in a country were people have the most health issues in the world due to there own personal choice ie diabetes from obesity, smoking, and alcohol, Yeah I have issues paying for other peoples benefits. As a small time business owner i can afford to pay my few employees medical insurance, but if I get forced due to rates going up and have to go to obama care, I will elect to pay the fine. I don't make enough money right now to just pull it out of my ass to hand out to people and wont. So that will be excessive amounts of revenue lost each year. All the almond farmers I know hire legal workers, but I feel that this is going to push ALLOT more small family farms to hire illegal immigrants and run the risk of that. It all most makes more sense for me to just fire all my workers and take on another partner who has his own medical to further expand and do the work.

I think your going to start seeing more small businesses going to more less family operated then hiring out. Medical is going to get so expensive that the middle class will not be able to afford it, and the fact that its ran by the gov't is horrible. The gov't cant even balance a budget and get their veterans paid so what makes you think they will be able to manage millions of people on medical? I have been waiting over a year now for my disability, so i can get my prescriptions covered and my GI bill check is all ways late.

FIVE GUYS FRANCHISE OWNER SAYS ?OBAMACARE? WILL FORCE HIM TO RAISE PRICES


Business owners across America say they?re experiencing poor sales, holding back hiring, and planning layoffs because of ?Obamacare,? or so says the Federal Reserve?s latest Beige Book (an overview of the business conditions in each of its 12 districts).
But in case you don?t trust the Beige Book?s anecdotal reporting, here?s something else to consider: Five Guys franchise holder Mike Ruffer said on Monday that the cost of The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, President Obama?s landmark healthcare bill, will force him to raise the price of burgers and hot dogs, according to the Washington Examiner?s Paul Bedard.
?He will need all the profits from at least one of his eight outlets just to cover his estimated added $60,000-a year in new Obamacare costs,? Bedard?s report notes.
?Any added costs are going to have to be passed on,? said Ruffer, who operates eight Five Guys in the Raleigh-Durham, N.C. area.
But wait! There?s more: Ruffer also said that he had to scrap plans to build three additional restaurants because he?s still waiting for after the Obama administration to explain all the rules and penalties involved in the healthcare bill.
?I?m kind of in a holding pattern,? said Ruffer, adding that he?s not the only franchise owner to hold back.
?Ruffer was the star witness at a Monday Heritage Foundation seminar on the impact Obamacare will have on small businesses,? Bedard notes. ?He is typical of many: Because he has enough full time employees to activate the law, he faces either coughing up the money to provide health insurance or paying a fine of up to $3,000 per worker.?

The report goes on to explain that Ruffner thought he?d be exempt from ?Obamacare? because he built each restaurant as its own company. However, the healthcare law doesn?t recognize this distinction ? so now he?s exploring whether laying off employees or cutting back hours will keep his franchise safe from ?Obamacare.?
?He said that ?scorched earth plan,? however, would hurt his restaurants, so Ruffer is likely to either pay the fine or buy insurance,? the Washington Exmainer reports. ?But spreading the costs over his basic menu of fries, drinks, burgers and hot dogs, could scare off customers, he worries. He said that the recent spike in gas prices cut into his profits since fewer people were stopping at his restaurants.?
?And the health care law isn?t only going to hit Ruffer. He?s quizzed his workers to ask if they understand that they will be fined if they don?t get health insurance. Just one of 20 workers were aware of the $95 tax penalty that rises to $695 by 2016,? the report adds.
Five Guys Franchise Owner Says ?Obamacare? Will Force Him to Raise Prices | TheBlaze.com

It doesn't force him to raise prices, that's a choice.

yes obamacare is good...it's good for illegals, freeloaders, hoodrats milking the system, lazy people who refuse to work

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Originally Posted by irish_2003

yes obamacare is good...it's good for illegals, freeloaders, hoodrats milking the system, lazy people who refuse to work

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Fuckin a right. Obamacare gives freeloaders one more reason not to get off their lazy asses and illegals to jump the fence.

wait a second, I thought all Presidents were honest? :scratch:

[that is sarcasm]

Lmao!!

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Originally Posted by Dale Mabry

It doesn't force him to raise prices, that's a choice.

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true.. he could just close up shop and go home

Budget office: Obama's health law reduces deficit | Fox News

And this just in

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Originally Posted by Standard Donkey

true.. he could just close up shop and go home

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Or buy one less vacation home.

I was talking to a client who is a partner in a radiology firm yesterday and he told me something very interesting. They are implementing a program where people with high BMI, or that smoke, etc have to pay higher health insurance premiums. IMO, this is the way we will lower healthcare costs, by hitting people in the pocketbook for their choices.

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Originally Posted by Dale Mabry

I was talking to a client who is a partner in a radiology firm yesterday and he told me something very interesting. They are implementing a program where people with high BMI, or that smoke, etc have to pay higher health insurance premiums. IMO, this is the way we will lower healthcare costs, by hitting people in the pocketbook for their choices.

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i don't believe that is gonna happen...i believe more people will begin to rely on gov't insurance instead...they won't pay out of pocket...other taxpayers will pay more for them instead

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Originally Posted by 99raptor

Budget office: Obama's health law reduces deficit | Fox News

And this just in

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from a year ago, this just in? WTF?

I pay almost $600/month for major medical insurance, each person (3 of us) has an annual $5k deductible, that means everything is out of pocket until we each hit our $5k deductible each year, so yeah I will take Obama Care over the shit I have now.

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Originally Posted by Prince

I pay almost $600/month for major medical insurance, each person (3 of us) has an annual $5k deductible, that means everything is out of pocket until we each hit our $5k deductible each year, so yeah I will take Obama Care over the shit I have now.

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I wonder if you will be saying that when there are shortages of healthcare providers, and you aren't able to see a Dr. when you need to, especially a specialist. Watch how fast a two tier system develops here just like in Canada. Healthcare is expensive, and Good healthcare with access costs more. Too many people don't recognize this. Think what you pay for car insurance. how much a month, and what's the deducible? now multiply that by 10. That's the difference in schooling to be a Dr. vs. a mechanic. How much do you think your body is worth vs a 40k car? 600/month and a 5K deductible doesn't seem so out of the question now does it? And if you are a healthy person, and wanted to just pay out of pocket you could have just saved the 600/month and put it in the bank. Obamacare doesn't let you do that anymore. Now you get fined, excuse me, taxed, for not having healthcare.

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Originally Posted by Prince

I pay almost $600/month for major medical insurance, each person (3 of us) has an annual $5k deductible, that means everything is out of pocket until we each hit our $5k deductible each year, so yeah I will take Obama Care over the shit I have now.

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It's funny that you think your personal costs for healthcare are going to go down. They certainly won't. Neither your premiums nor your deductibles will drop. This isn't saving you money.

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Originally Posted by Dale Mabry

I was talking to a client who is a partner in a radiology firm yesterday and he told me something very interesting. They are implementing a program where people with high BMI, or that smoke, etc have to pay higher health insurance premiums. IMO, this is the way we will lower healthcare costs, by hitting people in the pocketbook for their choices.

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BMI indexes are useless unless they are used only for evaluating sedentary people.
In example a 5'9 bodybuilder with a large amount of muscle mass weighing 170 with a bf% at or less than 10% would have a high BMI and be considered overweight.
Weighing 200 they would be considered obese on a BMI scale.

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Originally Posted by bio-chem

I wonder if you will be saying that when there are shortages of healthcare providers, and you aren't able to see a Dr. when you need to, especially a specialist. Watch how fast a two tier system develops here just like in Canada. Healthcare is expensive, and Good healthcare with access costs more. Too many people don't recognize this. Think what you pay for car insurance. how much a month, and what's the deducible? now multiply that by 10. That's the difference in schooling to be a Dr. vs. a mechanic. How much do you think your body is worth vs a 40k car? 600/month and a 5K deductible doesn't seem so out of the question now does it? And if you are a healthy person, and wanted to just pay out of pocket you could have just saved the 600/month and put it in the bank. Obamacare doesn't let you do that anymore. Now you get fined, excuse me, taxed, for not having healthcare.

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There already is a shortage of healthcare providers.

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Originally Posted by 99raptor

Budget office: Obama's health law reduces deficit | Fox News

And this just in

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A recent analysis by the nonpartisan Government Accountability Office (GAO) reveals that President Obama’s health care overhaul is likely to add $6.2 trillion to the deficit over the next 75 years.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013...o-the-deficit/

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Originally Posted by Bowden

BMI indexes are useless unless they are used only for evaluating sedentary people.
In example a 5'9 bodybuilder with a large amount of muscle mass weighing 170 with a bf% at or less than 10% would have a high BMI and be considered overweight.
Weighing 200 they would be considered obese on a BMI scale.

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This is another example of why medical care can't be one size fits all. Im in this category. Had my physical a cpl weeks ago. My Doctor now has to chart BMI for helth care record regs now being implemented. Im 5'10 and weigh about 190. Im probably! About 12-13% bf and have visible abs but his chart had me overweight and borderline obese. So what do you think in the future that will mean for my( and all other bbuilders or powerlifters) health care and insurance costs. Used the same doc for 12 yrs with no issues but now im obese and he had to take a photo of me for the new electronic records. Yay progress

Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk 2

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Originally Posted by Zaphod

There already is a shortage of healthcare providers.

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So lets add another 40 million to the amount of people using these services and see what that does to the shortage, and our wait times. Oh yeah, and we are going to continually cut the reimbursements, while upping their costs thereby reducing the incentive for there to be more trained doctors to fill the shortage. Good plan.:clapping:

What could possibly go wrong with 2,700 pages of legislation, written by lobbyists and special interests, that no one on planet earth has even read?

The Congressional Budget Office recently doubled their estimate of the number of people that will be dropped from their employer-sponsored insurance to 7 million. Don't be surprised when it doubles again, and again.

But hey, Obummer can stand up on a podium, stick his nose up in the air, and pretend like he fought the evil insurance companies. Most Americans are too fucking stupid to realize the insurance companies were filing amicus briefs at the Supreme Court in support of the legislation.

The same way that bad government regulation created a housing bubble which ultimately led to the financial collapse, the government is causing the cost of health care to sky rocket by instituting bad regulation encourages wasteful consumption, abuse, fraud, and suppresses the free market competition that keeps cost down and drives customer service. Obamacare only makes this worse. The more health care costs continue to rise, the more people will be dropped by their employers, many of these people will end up on medicaid which further drives up private health insurance costs, which causes more people to be dropped - a vicious downward spiral.

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Originally Posted by bio-chem

It's funny that you think your personal costs for healthcare are going to go down. They certainly won't. Neither your premiums nor your deductibles will drop. This isn't saving you money.

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If that's the case I will just keep the shitty health insurance I have, as far as not having insurance and saving $600/month, I am not stupid and I have seen people lose everything over medical bills, I am not going risk that. After the $5k deductible my insurance covers everything 100%.

Oh as far as being healthy, yes I am, but what if I ended up getting cancer like my 45 year old sister did two years ago, they racked $1 million in medical bills on treatment for her.

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Originally Posted by Prince

Oh as far as being healthy, yes I am, but what if I ended up getting cancer like my 45 year old sister did two years ago, they racked $1 million in medical bills on treatment for her.

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My point exactly. Health care is expensive, and is not an infinite resource. So how is obamacare helping you? So what will happen to people like your sister when there are not enough oncologists available? What will you be complaining about when there both the quantity and quality of patient care goes down? Our system is flawed, we can all agree to this, but obamacare isn't the answer. It completely surprises me that people believe politicians getting involved can in any way benefit us. Americans blindly trust Obama for god knows what reason when the man has never spoken an intelligent word about it. Matter of fact he hasn't spoken on it other than carefully crafted sound bite prepared to appeal to emotion rather than logic. Logic would tell anyone that this was more than government could fix in one fell swoop.