Thread: And Introduction to English Nazis in the Education System: ENA101

I used to get in arguments with my English Teachers about being so wrapped up in proper grammar and how it hinders the creative thought process as one writes. I alway's argued that the quality of the writing was in the flow of thought's and not in where I put the right hyphen. Read Hubert Selby, he cared less about grammar, yet his writing is still effective.

Well, most of the romantic classics we have today do not fit into the category of modern English... and they are reveered and widely read. Yet no one say "Oooh, that bastard misused a adverb"... when it comes down to it, if you can effectively communicate an idea then you are fulfilling the goal. It is nice to have some training in our language that will put us on a common ground with others, but if they couldnt have taught us that by 12th grade than they arent doing their job very effectively.

English is not about learning how to write fiction. That’s the common misconception people have about it. Its about being able to dissect another persons fiction and express that dissection clearly in terms of its relevance to what is being studied.

Drop the class if you don’t like it. That’s my advice. Some people don’t like English classes, some do. You do not. Quit now.

I always regret I didn't take my English classes more serious. I know now in the professional world the art of the written word could have opened a lot more doors for me. Also, the way you are interpreted by others via those written words can be very very important. Grammar does matter.

Change your perspective Eggs. You have to absorb as much as you can regardless of how wasteful you think it is. Even if out of all of it you get 2% from it. It is still 2% forward.......

I hate english, but effective writing skills are actually one of the most important things that one can have in life. College english courses suck, but I strongly advise trying to get the most out of them as you can. Being in law school now, I highly regret not paying more attention in my undergrad. english classes. Even my own father, a cardiologist, regrets not taking english more seriously.

Originally posted by Eggs
Thanks for stopping by!

You´re welcome.

I speaks english just good who needs to rite gooder than this i blaim the intertne fro bda habits in gramamr toyda evryone wants ot rattel off there quikc qiups withuot prooffreading.

Notice how the women all say pay attention? I hate English. Its the most invaluable class IMO. If you want to learn to write well, then read more.

Microsoft Word doesn't help either look at how it corrected my previous statement. "I speaks English just good who needs to rite goober than this I blame the interne fro bad habits in grammar toady everyone wants to rattle off there quick quips without proofreading." My manager used to rely heavily on it until I pointed out that it is far from perfect, now he has me do all his proofing. The man is a mathematical whiz, but he doesn't do well with written words.

I know the value of good communication, but I hated having my Creative Writing teacher destroying some of my works of art with her red pen. She was a hyphen whore too.

Jake - I'm all about English, I love to read and write... however, it bothers me that English teachers always give crap grades to everyone in the class. They have a class that doesnt even matter to my degree, and yet I am forced to take it because its part of the curriculum.

So to answer your question, I do like English... I dont like them swamping me with busy work just because it suits them.

Court Queen - I could say that about everything. Unfortunately I only have so much of my life to throw away at things that mean little to me. It is commonly understoof that to excel at something you have to find that which you wish to excel at and dedicate yourself to it. I only have so much of myself to waste before things like this English class interupt that which matters to me. Dont get me wrong, I love English... I love reading and I love writing. However, to teach me one does not have to give me busy work. I'd prefer being assigned research papers and what not to write or material to critique that interests me. I very much believe it is important to be well read. However, my main complaint is the busy work in the class and also the fact that this material should have been covered ten times over by the time I had gotten to college.

Aggie - Yep, English is important. I think I currently am able to use the English language relatively well... but I can always use more practice.

If uzing propur gramer iz hindering yur thot proses, rite it out and then curect it when u pruf reed.

Originally posted by maniclion
She was a hyphen whore too.

Arent they all?

My English skills are pretty good, I did lots of reading and speak it relatively well. I always scored well on English tests and entrance exams so I was told I should take a writers type class which I thought was ridiculous. I didn't want to write and I never payed attention to specifics, I just dont speak like a moron.

Originally posted by Dale Mabry
If uzing propur gramer iz hindering yur thot proses, rite it out and then curect it when u pruf reed.

Your statement would flow better if you had not tried so hard to make it look bad , but that is what I am talking about. The sentence was effective even though the spellings weren't exact the only pause I had was on proses(wasn't sure if it was process or processes)

My bad, Prawses. I hated learning that stuff too, but if I hadn't I would not be working right now. I went to college thinking I was going to be an engineer, now I am writing reports and shit.

Eggs...what is your major by the way ?

Originally posted by LAM
Eggs...what is your major by the way ?

Business Management Might possibly do an International Business Specialization depending on how much I feel the need to graduate

Originally posted by Eggs
Is it just me or are English teachers the biggest wasters of time in your college education? I mean... give me a break. I'm in college, reading "Death of a Salesman" and doing lame reports 24/7 which dont even pertain to my major. ....

So the US education system gets a big

I agree, Eggs. I took a lot of bullsh*t mandatory requirement in college to get my B.A.

Broadening our knowledge base is important, but in the first two year I had to take some really useless classes.

To give an example of how screwed up the U.S. education system is, I am in a Master's program, right now, and all we do is study theories, that were developed a long time ago. Then another theory came along to address the weaknesses of theory A. Then, theory B was found to have weaknesses, so theory C came along. We read outdated theoretical stuff we will NEVER use in our jobs. All we do is write papers.

Will this help me do a better job, and increase my skills? No.

Most people in my program are in it for the "piece of paper."

Just borrow the money from Uncle Sam.....and be a wage slave for life, paying your income to your creditor.

The American education system got even worse when Bush signed the "No Child Left Behind" law. My mother is a HS English teacher. She says todays teachers are no more than statisticians. The law requires ALL teachers of a particular subject in a given school to teach the EXACT same lesson plan at the EXACT same time with no deviations. School systems are graded and subsequent funding is based on Standardized Test scores. Schools must show yearly improvement in order to receive funding for the next school year. If a school's performance stagnates are drops, funding is withheld as punishment. Tell me what good this will do? The sad thing is, since it's a Federal Law, there's not much that can be done about it. Needless to say, my mother won't be voting for Bush this year.

Ah...the trials of the evil basic college English class. It was my experience that you had to choose your section carefully - usually the teachers had some degree of leeway in selecting reading material and how papers had to be constructed.

Since I teach some required speech classes (the very evil, always troubling, nasty public speaking courses), I'm also required to make students write papers, and occasionally run into conflicts between what their English instructor likes and what I expect in my classroom. While I readily correct grammatical problems on papers (and count off some credit on repeated abuses), I don't believe in doing so to the point of negating or minimizing the ideas a student expresses.

It has been my experience that by the time someone is in college, critical thinking skills need to be developed, since they are going to need those in the real world. At the same time, I have a large number of students who aren't capable of distinguishing the difference between "there" and "their." How they managed to get through 12 years of education without learning that is beyond me.

One of the pedagogic problems in undergraduate school is often too much emphasis on teaching writing development as if every student aspires to graduate school, rather than trying to frame instruction toward more specific (and individual) career goals. I tend to be a big fan of andragogy, which encourages more self-directed learning and considers education a lifelong process rather than simply a jumping through the hoop experience.

Still, your instructor probably is limited somewhat by department requirements for that course, even if he/she has some leeway in how materials are selected. As it is in my own class, I have to require four short papers, one research paper, three speeches and at least four "engagements" in a sixteen week semester. I try to cushion students to some degree by granting more allowances for selecting individual paper topics that fit general guidelines. My students even choose whether they want an objective final exam or a take-home essay - I think that participation in the process hopefully encourages better performance.

But we get regular lectures from my department superiors about grade inflation, and I wouldn't be surprised if that doesn't happen in the English department at your school as well. Some instructors react to those concerns by creating ways to limit the number of students who can do well in the classroom. Obviously, that lesson becomes less about preparing students for success outside the classroom than adhering to an often vague concept of academic standards.

Oops... I forgot to mention that allowing more self-selection can yield quite a few surprises. For example, yesterday, one young woman student of mine presented her persuasive speech about the benefits of sexual activity.

However, I learned some things from her presentation. Her research indicated that sexuality is not only good for skin tone and puts some shine in a woman's hair....but that apparently a man's sperm can effectively soothe a mosquito bite on other parts of the body.

It was the first time I ever noticed the male students in the class feverishly taking notes.

Hmmm, a pearl necklace.

Trust me, whatever you do, do NOT take a Canadian literature course. There is a very good reason that you do not see Canadian books in the best sellers department

Why is that, eh?

Originally posted by Dale Mabry
Why is that, eh?

Originally posted by Rob_NC
Hmmm, a pearl necklace.

I was thinking the exact same thing. It's only beneficial if used as a topical ointment.

Originally posted by CourtQueen


I always regret I didn't take my English classes more serious. I know now in the professional world the art of the written word could have opened a lot more doors for me. Also, the way you are interpreted by others via those written words can be very very important. Grammar does matter.

Change your perspective Eggs. You have to absorb as much as you can regardless of how wasteful you think it is. Even if out of all of it you get 2% from it. It is still 2% forward.......

I gotta' agree with CQ. I regret that I didn't take English more seriously when I was younger. I am basically self-taught and know that I use some unorthodox syntax and constructs. But, thus far I have managed to get through 3 college degrees and 23+ years of professional job experience where I have written winning proposals in the 5-10 million price range. Not bragging here - just amazed.

But, definately like marriage, relationships, training and satisfaction - "ya gets out whicha puts in".
-OD

Originally posted by ALBOB
I was thinking the exact same thing. It's only beneficial if used as a topical ointment.

Now ya know she had a list of about 20 benefits of sexual activity, which she contends experts recommend about three times a week....among those were the ability to aid in stretching muscles, relief of headaches and other body aches, it's ability to be used as a laxative!!, relief of stress, etc. And of course the topical application of male sperm for relief of a mosquito bite.

Now ya know the guys in that class are gonna walk up to the first girl they see with a mosquito bite this summer and say "Ya know, I've got something for that."