maniclion

I am a Golden Shellback and have been through the Realm of the Golden Dragon. Look that up.

LAM

sounds like something a Squid would do ! lol

are you ex-Navy ?

Dumbest statement made in the Anabolic Zone for Nov

TBD

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What you talking about Willis ?

greekblondechic

Am I only allowed to reply if I've experienced the Bermuda Triangle?

maniclion

Of course I am, but all sailors know of the Realm of the Golden Dragon and how honorable it is to be a Golden Shellback since long ago, pirates even.

kbm8795

Well now Vieope...I do have one question you might be able to assist me with - a couple of years ago, when I attended a UFO conference as part of some graduate research, I watched one presentation that depicted sightings and "experiences" in Brazil. The speaker showed marks on one man and told stories of another man who wouldn't leave his house for several weeks after his "experience." But one thing that seemed different about these stories is that people said their encounters were more violent than I have read about American situations.

Do people down there talk much about these things happening?

I'm sorry, Johnny - I don't know much about the Bermuda Triangle - most of my information about that is from years ago, before they made many discoveries about how things can happen in the area.

Johnnny

kbm8795 funny you mention UFO's. I was thinking of starting a thread of UFO's & if anyone has seen them or believed in them. I started a thread on this topic in the other forum & most ppl responded seriously.

But since you brought it up here I'll share my sighting with you tomorrow. I don't have time now as I'm on my way out for a coffee.

kbm8795

Great, Johnny! I would be interested in hearing about your experiences. I just attended the annual conference this year to gather some more information, and thought it had a more scholarly approach than I saw at the last one I visited. I'm surprised how many people really spend a lot of time exploring that and/or believe they have had experiences.

I've not really had one, at least nothing that I could have confirmed. I've read a few books about it, but mostly research concerning media coverage and various conspiracy theories.

Vieope

FURtherness

Johnnny

Well when I was about 14yrs old at away camp for about a month. I went for about 4 summers in a row with friends from football & highschool. Every summer in a row that we were there for at least 5 days out of the summer maybe more whether it was day or night myself, friends other campers & counsellors would always see this round, silvery grey metallic object with no sharp edges or sound hovering over different parts of the camp & across the lake. At night we couldn't clearly see it, but on a clear night we could make out the round shape, at times there would be a bright orange light shining from the center of the object. We noticed that if you looked at it too long the orange light would fade until it was dark, but we could still see the object hovering around. One day on the last day of summer camp of the last summer we went there in broad day light with parents there, we happened to be at the baseball diamond & the silver grey perfectly rounded object flew at a not too fast speed (with no sound) over the baseball diamond in broad daylight & about 20 people including campers, us, counsellors & parents all saw it & were pointing at it until it disappeared from our view from flying away. A few ppl managed to get pictures of it, but they were ppl I didn't know & some of them were parents. This was creepy mainly because this was always a very quiet area with no planes or helicopters ever in the area. Some ppl here will probably think I'm full of sh!t but it's true & about 20 other ppl saw it as well. I truly believe the government knows a hell of a lot more than they're leading on & that there have been many cover ups going all the way back to the Roswell crash. In the other forum this one dude believed the media about it being a whether balloon & posted links to some documents about it. I said to him that the military probably had the site cleaned up within a couple of hours after it crashed & planted remains of a whether balloon to cover it up & list all the documents to back that up. We don't know how sneaky these ppl are if they want to hide something.
"The Truth is Out There!".

kbm8795

Thanks, Vieope. . .that was an interesting link. I remember at the original presentation about sightings in Brazil, there was speculation about the differences in appearance between how some creatures were seen there compared with those that have been sighted in the U.S. or Canada. At the same time, it looks like your government follows several of the same kinds of procedures that other governments do when they are sighted.

I didn't realize that there was speculation that they had actually captured one alien body, but that no one outside the government has apparently seen it. I wonder whatever became of it?

I know you said that UFO sightings seem to be active, and you live in a very large country. Do you think that a lot of people believe in them or that it is very common to have these sightings? I was a little surprised to read that Dr. John Mack had traveled down there as an investigator - he was one of the organizers for the first scientific conference at a large American university in 1992. As a professor of psychiatry, he faced a lot of criticism for his theories about how these sightings and "abduction" experiences may be manifested in someone's mind; yet he has persisted in his work for quite a few years now.

kbm8795

Well, I'm not going to claim you are full of shi*t. . .there are too many people out there who already believe they have seen something before, and it sounds to me like you and your campmates saw something repeatedly over several summers and it didn't look like a "weather balloon" to any of you.

I am interested though - I know you were only about 14 at the time, but had you thought much about UFOs before you had ever seen the object, or had an idea or strong belief in their existence before you ever saw one? And it seems as if there were several people witnessing this at the same time - do you remember how you reacted or how other people reacted to those sightings? It doesn't sound like anyone was too frightened, except maybe when all the parents and counselors were there at the baseball diamond.

I remember a few people telling me that when they first had an experience, they would first see an object and be curious, but sometimes have a slight, very uneasy feeling in their stomach, as if they could somehow instinctively sense this was too out of the ordinary and had some fear. . .which would make some sense. I mean, if I was walking down the street and something like that appeared, I think I would be fascinated but probably panic if it started coming closer.

It's interesting that people sometimes feel that the government tries to offer some explanation, even if it doesn't add up in the minds of those who witnessed it....but doesn't an experience like that change the way you see things afterwards?

Johnnny

As I said I was at that camp for 4yrs starting at the age of 13yrs old & my last year at the camp was when I was 17yrs old. I saw it when I was 14, 15, 16, & 17yrs old.

I was aware of UFO's & the possibility of alien life at the age of 10yrs old with things I saw on television & documentaries & Unsolved Mysteries with Robert Stack.

I guess I should've mentioned the ppl's reaction & mine. I was shocked at what I saw. A parent, couple of counsellors & a couple of campers at the same time shouted out "what the hell is that?

The rest of the ppl including me were speechless & just stared at the object in disbelief. Some of the younger kids were scared & ran to their parents & pointed it out to them & shouted out "what the hell is that?

Sorry I left out that important information. The last time I saw it was in the summer of 1995 the last year I went there. This camp is about an hour & a half away from Kingston Ontario.

But as far as I'm concered, there seems to be a lot more of these sightings in the United States, at least that I'm aware of. I could be wrong.

Vieope

FURtherness

kbm8795

I think that is an interesting story, Johnnny - and it must have left a definite impression on your concepts of the universe and reality. I wonder if anyone at the time took a picture, or if they were just so startled that they could do nothing more than stare in disbelief. It must have been strange to see it every year you were at camp - and never get some kind of explanation for the phenomenon.

I'm not sure about this, but isn't there a RCAF base in or near Kingston? I know that seems like a long shot, but the first (or second) explanation for these sightings sometimes claims that the objects are some kind of government aircraft. While that might seem doubtful given that the shape and silence doesn't seem to line up with the design of conventional aircraft, it does make you wonder about such things.

Actually, I gather there have been a lot of sightings in Canada. When I was at the last conference, I sat in on one seminar led by Grant Cameron, who is a longtime Canadian researcher who lives in Manitoba. He's very articulate, and showed slides of sightings south of the city along the mile roads (out in the Prairies, roads were apparently laid one mile apart and at one mile intersections to link farms). There was also a presentation about a series of sightings in Nova Scotia, though I don't remember those as being recent.

I think it's an interesting subject, even though it gets clouded by claims that governments conduct coverups and intimidate witnesses or by some people who stage sightings for cheap publicity. It sounds like you definitely saw something different, though, especially at four different years of your life in the same location.

Some people I've interviewed say they often don't tell anyone about seeing one because they fear persecution. I was not-so-surprised to hear of cases where people who said they were brought aboard these craft lost their jobs or were branded as crazy. Of course there is a big difference between seeing one and claiming some kind of abduction, but I wonder if people find it so hard to believe that they just don't want to know that so many people have experienced these things.

It's strange - I remember one Gallup Poll indicated that a large majority of Americans believe there is probably some form of intelligent life out there. We've even funded large radio transmitters to send messages and receive them from deep space (remember that movie "Contact"?) so it indicates there is some level of belief that a lot of people, like you, have seen something that has never been properly explained. And reports of objects extend back into at least the 19th century, and some were reported in newspapers at the time. Imagine how strange it must have been to see something in the sky at a time when there were no airplanes, possibly no widespread use of hot air balloons, and no automobiles yet!

I'll have to pull some files to give more information on this, but I remember one case in a small town in Texas around the turn of the last century in which the newspaper reported a sighting and a crash. The claim is that there is still a marked grave there, but the city and courts had refused to exhume the contents. One company featured that in an advertisement a few years ago. . .I'll have to locate that information.

Honestly, I don't know if I'm a believer or not - the more work I've done on this research project, the more in the middle I am on the subject. But I'm sure interested in how...well, spotting that four years in a row...has affected your outlook, Johnnny. Do you tell many people? And how do they handle it when you tell them your story?

Johnnny

Very interesting stuff. You seem more into it than I & I'm a true believer.

I guess I forgot to mention I saw some parents & kids taking pictures of it, but they were ppl I didn't know.

But yes there maybe a military base near Kingston Ontario, but I highly doubt that they have that kind of technology. & we did see it every summer I was there & it was the same object or at least an aircraft of the same model. Whether it was human, I don't think so.

I truly believe we aren't alone, a Universe this huge & thousands of unexplored galaxies & planets. I'm sure there are planets with life forms that are inferior to us as well as superior that have technology that is say 500 years ahead of our technology.

As for God I believe that there is one universal God that all religions & life forms prayer to, & worship. I believe God is Universal & is everywhere & sees everything everywhere.

kbm8795

I really appreciate how open you are about talking about this - and I think you have a really interesting outlook on how you view the universe since those sightings. I often think people are transformed a bit by the experience - and gosh, if I had seen what you had so many times over those years, I would probably be apt to be a believer too.

I do think that some of the researchers have a lot of hangups about government conspiracies to coverup these things - and I have mixed feelings about the extent of that activity. On one hand, it seems like it would be impossible for a government to really coverup something that has had so many reports - and yet there could be a compelling interest in doing so...imagine how people might react to confirmation of an advanced civilization in terms of government and social institutions like religion. It could cause a lot of havoc.

But that leaves people like you, who not only saw something once, but many times over several years, in a strange position. If a person sees something with their eyes, has other people around who see the same thing, and no known explanation can verify that it is something manmade, then it raises other kinds of questions that humanity might not be ready to really answer.

I just wonder if these things get confused with stuff like the "face" on Mars, or a lot of those other things like the Loch Ness Monster. . .even though really, these are all separate kinds of experiences and beliefs.

While I was at this conference, I stumbled on this random little video that a vendor had crammed into a box of books and stuff...it was a homemade video about a crop circle dating from 1992 in a county about 70 miles from me. The vendor offered me the tape for like $1.50. . .and when I got home, I noticed there was a lab assessment for the soil and plants folded up in the box. I took the tape and the lab assessment to our Plant and Soil Research Center here at the University - they are looking over the material to see if they can find any criticism of the way this farmer made the tape.

I've been rather surprised at the lengths some of these researchers are going to try to apply more measureable techniques to prove the validity of reports of things like crop circles and UFO sightings. To me, it indicates that they believe in things they've experienced deeply enough to put a lot of time and effort into seeking some kind of answer.

I have a harder time understanding those who say they have had alien "abductions," however. This is probably because it is more difficult to grasp the story of someone who says they've been "on a ship" when I've had no related kind of experience. I've seen that there are many theories out there about why people have had such experiences, ranging from some kind of psychological disorders to subconscious belief creation. Of course, it doesn't mean these experiences didn't happen - they just seem to baffle scientists and psychologists who struggle to provide some kind of explanation. When I approached one of those people at the conference, I could sense their hesitation and defensiveness about the subject even in a location where they were surrounded by others who were apt to believe them. . .I gather that comes from feelings that they'll be persecuted and laughed at if they tell their stories.

I can remember some faculty in my own department who laughed at my research idea when I first started to present it. I didn't even get past the first mention of "UFOs and people who say they have had alien experiences" before some faculty members started laughing. This was exactly the reason why I knew I stumbled on a good research topic - if people have preconceived notions, it's something worth looking at and understanding on a deeper level. They aren't laughing now...

Now I should ask you....does this mean you believe in things like ghosts...or like voodoo...or things like that? I know they are much different, but I have heard skeptics claim that people who believe in one thing probably believe in all the others, and I don't think that is necessarily true. Besides, you have seen something with your own eyes, and that makes a big difference!

Johnnny

kbm8795 yes I've told many ppl, & I know my friends who went to camp with me have also told other ppl.

Some ppl responded very well & thought it could've been a UFO as some of these other ppl are believers to. But there were also some ppl who thought we were crazy & wouldn't be convinced. My father isn't a believer. Some ppl thought we just saw a satellite, but the funny thing is there never is aircraft of any kind no matter how small in that area. & a few others wanted to share whatever we were smoking LOL.

But the majority of the ppl believed that it could've been some aircraft of some sort human or not. Like I said I doubt that the Canadian Military has that type of aircraft technology, small, fast & no sound able to come to a complete halt & speed off in a second. I have a buddy in the Canadian military who's finishing a course to become the commander of a tank batallion. He tells us that they are still using tanks from the late 70's & early 80's. Just goes to show you how little money is put into the Canadian Forces. He says he's almost embarrassed to be a part of it.

One of my buddies from camp was in Vancouver in 1998 & saw a low hovering UFO in broad daylight. But it looked as if it was cloaked or camouflaged or something remember how the Predator looked when he was cloaked? You could still see something but you could see right through it. They were both scared sh!tless.

Mudge

Yes indeed, because that was not the original story at all. Guess who got relieved of duties.

Mudge

Almost every computer geek has run SETI@Home at least once.

Kinesiology Vote @ Top 25 Deads Comp Bench
Motivation Bench form MaxCalc Charles Poliquin
When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. Lao-Tzu
I don't know any sources so don't ask - thanks

Johnnny

I do believe in paranormal things, reincarnation to an extent, the possibility of The City of Atlantis & other things.

As for UFO's I've seen ancient hieroglyphics with images of man on the ground pointing up to triangular, saucer. circular & round shaped flying objects flying or hovering over them. Now some of the shapes I saw were very much the same to the shapes of those in many sightings in videos & pictures. Now that's freaky because way back then there was no such thing as aircraft of any kind way way way back then. So those ppl were obviously seeing things in the sky as well as us. Which could say how long they've been visiting this planet.

My curiosity is why won't these visitors make themselves present to the general public? They are probably affraid we will try to destroy them. Or maybe they have been dealing with secret governments for years & we have no clue.

As for the Rosewell crash in the 50's many ppl believe the military covered it up with remains of a wheather balloon. Did you know that Area 51 has existed for a long time & those bases go back as far back as base 1? To some this maybe considered a fantasy or sci-fi flick but as far as we know with how deep conspiracies go back, some believe that the alien bodies & craft were taken to Area 51 & kept underground for many years & studied & like I said covered up with remains of a whether balloon & provided all the documents necessary to make this story look good. But within the last 10yrs or so the craft & bodies have been moved to another Area base (they go as high as 60 maybe higher now) because Area 51 has become too much of a tourist attraction even with the tight security everything has still been moved.

But I truly believe that there are huge conspiracies alien & ufo related & other non ufo related conspiracies that the government has covered up to hide the truth from the public.

kbm8795

Wow....that is very interesting. But I do know that not every government seems to take a negative approach to these reports - the French and the Belgian governments both have official commissions that deal with investigations of this nature.

I certainly can't blame you for believing in exploring some of these things - and while I sometimes think some examples are overly exaggerated, there are still possibilities that haven't ever been adequately explained. I think one of my own instinctive reactions to stories of sightings has been that they are most often experienced by people who are not celebrities, who generally don't want publicity, and who are don't experience such things everyday. I've read accounts from debunkers who think that everyone who says they've seen a UFO is someone with Star Trek posters all over the walls of their home, but then obviously, everyone with Star Trek posters does not go off to camp four years in a row and see a UFO....know what I mean?

As for Roswell, I'm not sure how I feel about that. I've thought about filing FOA documents for some reports, but it's been pretty exhaustively researched, and my own dissertation work isn't about proving whether they are true or not - I'm mainly exploring the experiences and how they are communicated to a wider public.

When I was in Cleveland for a Communication conference earlier this month, I stumbled on a cover story in a local newspaper that recounted a major sighting in Ohio back in the mid-1960's - there were a rash of sightings back then around the country. The saucer was chased by law enforcement officers through several counties and even across the border into West Virginia, I believe...but the telling thing to me was what happened to the officers later. They claim they were told to keep quiet about the experience, and one officer was so affected that he left his job, left his wife and moved into an isolated wooded area where he doesn't communicate much with the outside world.

I remember some sightings in Gulf Breeze, FL, that were reported regularly in the small beach town's newspaper. It attracted so much attention that people would just travel there and stake out a spot to look for them at night. . .however, some photos that were produced turned out to be a hoax, and when the newspaper was purchased by another company, they issued instructions not to publish any more accounts.

I visited Roswell a couple of years ago - and while I wasn't allowed up to the ranch site (there were wild fires raging in the mountains) I spent a lot of time with people in the library archives (including one person who was living in the town at the time). While I'm not sure that it affected me too much, I was fascinated with one map that had little lights that indicated reports of sightings around the country, and they had some neat gift stuff in the little museum shop.

You know, there is a place in east-central Wisconsin that holds a UFO Daze every year - it's at a "UFO" bar called "Benson's Hideaway" and usually about the third week of July, I think. People gather and listen to speakers about sightings and stuff, and then spend the evenings outside along the lake sipping beers and watching for UFOs. People who attend the event claim the area is known to get a lot of sightings.

The town of Elmwood, Wisconsin (in the other side of the state) has held a weekend UFO festival before, based on a rash of sightings that apparently took place there several years ago. It seems like there are plenty of people who either have experienced these things or believe in their existence.

Of course, I might get bashed for making this statement about one gift item I saw at the conference.....one vendor had a complete nativity scene for sale, except all of the characters (baby Jesus, Mary, Joseph, the three wise men) had green alien faces!!! It was probably my bad, but I laughed hysterically when I saw that display. Still, I think to some people it might make some reasonable sense. I'll have to get one of those to send to Mudge....

You know, one thing I did notice about people attending conferences is that they seem (for the most part) reasonable working people who have just experienced something different and without explanation. Most seemed fairly religious (some had cross necklaces) and didn't see their experiences as in any conflict with standard religious beliefs.

I think both the press and the government has some problems figuring out how to cover these happenings.

I'm glad you haven't had many negative experiences telling people, Johnnny...but do you think you might hold deeper beliefs in many other things because of those sightings?

kbm8795

I forgot about that - I just didn't realize that SETI was so widespread.

One speaker mentioned that it seemed as if younger people easily accepted that it was likely there were other civilizations out there somewhere (outer space, another dimension, a place where there were no bans on supplements...hehehe)...but that they tended to ask more questions about where the search for life was looking now rather than if there was any out there.

Mudge

Any hills overlooking Area 51 were bought up years ago, nobody can approach the area and see anything now.

Kinesiology Vote @ Top 25 Deads Comp Bench
Motivation Bench form MaxCalc Charles Poliquin
When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. Lao-Tzu
I don't know any sources so don't ask - thanks

OceanDude

Could there be a cover up of another sort going on? There are thousands and thousands of documented statements of miraculous accounts of people having close encounters with what are described as “heavenly beings” and direct communication and signs, wonders and visions. There are even many documented accounts