Thread: debate on a controversial topic....

It is hard to say which type of situation is always bad to raise a child. It all depends. Two parents, single mom, single dad, it is possible to have these situtations and successful stories.

I totally agree gr81...however the problem is just not kids having kids. I have a ton of broke ass adult friends who started families with zero money in the bank and probably 75% of those marriages have ended in divorce and bankruptcy.

Come to think of it...one of my buddies called me up on Monday. He is one of the broke ass's that started a family with no money in the bank. 4 years later, 2 kids later he is going through a divorce and filling for bankruptcy. I just found out through the grapevine that he just got his new gf pregnant, because he was on Paxil and couldn't feel shit when wearing a condom so he was using the "withdraw" method. I gave him a ration of shit when he told about his birth control method months ago. Now this dumbass is going to be 39 in a couple of months with ZERO money in the bank, no job and financially responsible for 3 children...can you say LOSER !

sounds like you have issues. I know some perfectly competent girls who strip because it's good money with not too much time invested allowing them time to study- 2 of them are medical students. I also know wonderful single parents whose children are cared for better than some in 2 parent homes. Yes it is unfortunate that helping young mothers who have made poor choices is a drain on our economy but have you ever researched the difference 1 child on wellfare whose natural parent has custody costs compared to what it costs the country for a foster childs care? Children being raised by the natural parent get far less money. Also you may be interested in the figures you'll find if you research the numbers of ex foster children who end up in prison and what it costs to house a prisoner for a year. It is 500 times more likely that a child will be abused in foster care than in their natural home ... You ask some good questions but need to consider them more thoroughly. Even taking an antibiotic while you are on the pill renders it ineffective... I don't see the sense in turning our backs on children who need our help wether they are newborn or teens.

of course it is, but the odds are not with you. Is it possible to run through gunfire and not get hit, yes, but it still isn't a good idea! ya feel me. Besides I am generalizing b/c I am speaking about a large number. There is always te excpetion to the rule, always. but thats just what that is is an exception.

I agree with everything that you said, except that 18(and under) can make informative decisions. It could be taught to them, and that is why we NEED better sex ed in the schools. Sex should not be "taboo", they need to teach about it, and its reprocussions.

Originally posted by rockgazer69
sounds like you have issues. I know some perfectly competent girls who strip because it's good money with not too much time invested allowing them time to study- 2 of them are medical students. I also know wonderful single parents whose children are cared for better than some in 2 parent homes. ... I don't see the sense in turning our backs on children who need our help wether they are newborn or teens.

Once again, thats great, but is the exception to the rule, not the rule. Yes I do have issues, shit is crazy nowadays with all the single mothers running around. We are not turning our backs on them by not allowing them to make these mistakes. We shouldn't be supporting them, we shoud be punishing them. I sure as fucc don't want to pay for it, do you? by the way its great that we don;t take that stance when people fucc up using drugs or anything else, just when women have kids. What about all the people in jail b/c of mnor drug offense, are we not turning our back on tem? They are a hell of alot less detrimental to society than some chick poppin out zerox copies of herself for her own amusement!

Originally posted by Vieope
It is hard to say which type of situation is always bad to raise a child. It all depends. Two parents, single mom, single dad, it is possible to have these situtations and successful stories.

of course it is, but the odds are not with you. Is it possible to run through gunfire and not get hit, yes, but it still isn't a good idea! ya feel me. Besides I am generalizing b/c I am speaking about a large number. There is always te excpetion to the rule, always. but thats just what that is is an exception.

if you pressure and shame children too much about this they are afraid to reach out when they find themselves in the very situation you railed against n then you have Geraldo asking how kids could leave their babies in toilets or bash their skulls in seconds after birth in a hotel room.

Originally posted by LAM
I totally agree gr81...however the problem is just not kids having kids. I have a ton of broke ass adult friends who started families with zero money in the bank and probably 75% of those marriages have ended in divorce and bankruptcy.

Come to think of it...one of my buddies called me up on Monday. He is one of the broke ass's that started a family with no money in the bank. 4 years later, 2 kids later he is going through a divorce and filling for bankruptcy. I just found out through the grapevine that he just got his new gf pregnant, because he was on Paxil and couldn't feel shit when wearing a condom so he was using the "withdraw" method. I gave him a ration of shit when he told about his birth control method months ago. Now this dumbass is going to be 39 in a couple of months with ZERO money in the bank, no job and financially responsible for 3 children...can you say LOSER !

Shocking!! lol. there are millions out there just like your friend too. just look at the divorce rate in this country for christs sake!!

parents need to remember how they felt in the throes of teen passion and talk with acceptance and understanding and educate , educate, educate...

one thing that still shocks me (even though i've heard it repeatedly) is the number of times very young single women are pregnant - and it's completely intentional.

Originally posted by rockgazer69
if you pressure and shame children too much about this they are afraid to reach out when they find themselves in the very situation you railed against n then you have Geraldo asking how kids could leave their babies in toilets or bash their skulls in seconds after birth in a hotel room.

thats why they should not be having the children in the first place, thats my whole point is that they are not mature enough to del with that huge responsibility. Thats not even to say how fucced up it is that women have 100% say in whether the child is born or not, and then all of a sudden some guy is a "deadbeat" dada b/c some bitch had a kid he didn't want. Its a fucced up situation. I know that if some chick told me she was going to have a chils and it was mine, I wouldn't want any part of it. Would I pay eth child support for teh next 18 yrs of my life, yes. but I don't want a child at this point in my life, and it wouldn;'t be my decision at all whether or not the kid was born. Does that make me a bad person, or does it make her a bad person?

Originally posted by nikegurl
one thing that still shocks me (even though i've heard it repeatedly) is the number of times very young single women are pregnant - and it's completely intentional.

not sure what you are daying here NG?

Originally posted by gr81
thats why they should not be having the children in the first place, thats my whole point is that they are not mature enough to del with that huge responsibility. Thats not even to say how fucced up it is that women have 100% say in whether the child is born or not, and then all of a sudden some guy is a "deadbeat" dada b/c some bitch had a kid he didn't want. Its a fucced up situation. I know that if some chick told me she was going to have a chils and it was mine, I wouldn't want any part of it. Would I pay eth child support for teh next 18 yrs of my life, yes. but I don't want a child at this point in my life, and it wouldn;'t be my decision at all whether or not the kid was born. Does that make me a bad person, or does it make her a bad person?

neither just would make you responsible for getting her pregnant you know how it works sperm egg. So how do you propose we punish these girls forced abortion like china? steal their children and raise more suicidal orphans who have no true sense who they really are? kill the babies so they don't bite into what we pay for our pedicures and massages? It'd be great to stop teen pregnancy but how do we actually do that? Realistically?

I'll just say this. It takes a lot of courage to talk about and write about and openly share the things that many people have and are within this thread, so for that alone, you should pat yourself on the back.

I, am always in great admiration of those who can communicate things that are most painful or perhaps taboo to talk about because essentially the more you think about it, the more you come to realize that it's the suffocation of your own feelings, emotions, pain, struggles, etc. (and I for one can identify with these things right now as I am experiencing them greatly in my own life...) is something that truly kills people, not only through violence or brutal means, but in their hearts because they simply give up trying to fight for what they are so unsure will even be heard.

Whether you agree or disagree on a certain topic, it's the simply act of openly talking about it and sharing different viewpoints and feelings that prevents so much bad that is happening right now in this world... in fact, more than most people realize.

Just my two cents. I am so sorry if it came across preachy, but then again, anything of true compassion and heart always comes across that way, so for that I am sure you understand...

Thanks Guys...

Hang in there, all I can say... everyone has struggles so you are not alone... even if you are alone (as I am) if you express it you'll be amazed and marvelled at how good you feel, if only for a small moment and you can smile to yourself inside knowing that by sharing what you did may have inspired someone to take better care of themselves or do something that they may have never had the courage to do being alone...

...and that is DEFINITLY SOMETHING WORTH PREACHING ABOUT, in fact, send in a choir! ;-)

xojl

Originally posted by gr81
not sure what you are daying here NG?

That the pregnancies aren't always "mistakes" or due to carelessness. Very often they are premeditated and intended.

I always tend to assume that if you're 15 years old (or 16, 17 - you get the idea) and pregnant that it was an "accident"

But more and more girls set out deliberately to get pregnant b/c they want a baby. That freaks me out. (and not in a good way)

Originally posted by nikegurl
That the pregnancies aren't always "mistakes" or due to carelessness. Very often they are premeditated and intended.

I always tend to assume that if you're 15 years old (or 16, 17 - you get the idea) and pregnant that it was an "accident"

But more and more girls set out deliberately to get pregnant b/c they want a baby. That freaks me out. (and not in a good way)

Yea, I never understood it. I remember in middle school I had to carry around this baby... It would cry at all times during the day/night. What a PITA. They should make every kid do that.

I've seen girl barely in their teens talking on Oprah about wanting to have babies. my daughter plans to adopt between the ages of 24 and 29.... WE TALK

the girls that say they want to get pregnant are usually doing it b/c they want someone who will love them. but they have it ass backwards if they think a baby is the answer. the baby should get to be the needy one. not vice versa.

in all honesty - i wouldn't want them raising a puppy. i'm not joking.

Seems to be two interconnected causes. One is lack of education and/or ending education. Another is ending education due to pregnancy. Cant figure out which is which cause they seem to go together. If there is one aggravating factor its lack of self-esteem in young girls,that, and the bombardment of our young people with unending sex and violence.

If you come from a stable,structured family, as my kid does. The problem shrinks. But even then there are no garantees. Raiseing kids today is a crap shoot!

Ive noticed in the black community that having babies out of wedlock, while young, is almost a right of passage. Or just a "right".While its not as common it sure also happens in the white community too. My opinion is that, even more then lack of self esteem is a lack of morality in the young girls life. Most of all the un-ending barrage of sexual content in the media and music, the sexual innuendo on telivision and movies. Its just appalling!

And I'll tell you whats even worse, its the relentless de-humanization of violence in the media and in this moronic video games these kids play, most of all young boys. Now Im a guy who started shooting guns at age 7yo. I started hunting at 8yo. Ive been all over the planet pursueing my sport, have many trophys for shooting on the wall, and have been some type of Policeman for 25 years, both military and civilian. So who do you think buys these moronic "massacre everyone with M-16s" PS-ll video games for my young son? Me or my yuppie,anti-hunting,anti-gun,vegan, wife?

My wife does!!! I hate the things! I dont ever want my kid to glorify violance,dehumanize it, or ever,ever underestimate what a firearm can do. And all his friends have these shitbird games too. One of them brought over that auto-theft thing where the bad guy is beating hell out of everyone he see's. I made them physically remove it from the house. Ive done the same with this rap music crap. I litteraly make them hide it in the bushes outside.

Take a day sometime and write down all the crap your kid is exposed to. Listen to the lyrics they listen to, watch the same shows they do, play the same moron video games "and slaughter a few villages like they do". Look at all the sex they are bombarded with. Drive by the dime store abortion centers,"aka concentration camps". Now we have gays getting married in MA. Eventually it'll be nationwide, eventually they'll be adopting kids, or growing them in test tubes. Nice house for a kid to grow up in eh?

On a positive note Im raiseing a brilliant student, a very good piano player, good hunter,a great athlete, and a nice kid. A big reason for this is because theres a daddy home. And he aint gonna fool daddy! He'll fool mommie but not daddy.

Boy this country better wake up.................take care.............Rich

I don't really believe in financial support from the government for anybody unless they are directly responsible for the taxes which are paying for it, ie unemployment, disability, etc.

Here is a bit of a story. When I first moved here to Philly, I always felt bad for the homeless people so every time I saw one I gave them money. As I got to think about it, I was just reinforcing bad behavior. None of these people were disabled to the point of not being able to work. None of these people offered to do anything for the money I just gave them. I thought it was a slap in the face to the construction worker who gets up at 5am, works his ass off for 10 hours, then at the end of the week has 33% of his paycheck taken by Uncle Sam all while this person has the gaul to just stand and ask for a handout.

Maybe it is a regional thing, there was always this homeless guy up in Vermont that would ask me and my pals if we had anything for him to do for some change. You could tell by his calloused hands that he was working his ass off all day. We would just have him tell us stories and we would bring him out for a beer and burger. Some of the homeless people here in Philly have softer and cleaner hands than mine.

Now, as far as situations like Ethiopa where they have no means, I feel that they deserve as much of our support as we can give them.

Originally posted by Rich46yo

And I'll tell you whats even worse, its the relentless de-humanization of violence in the media and in this moronic video games these kids play, most of all young boys. Now Im a guy who started shooting guns at age 7yo. I started hunting at 8yo. Ive been all over the planet pursueing my sport, have many trophys for shooting on the wall, and have been some type of Policeman for 25 years, both military and civilian. So who do you think buys these moronic "massacre everyone with M-16s" PS-ll video games for my young son? Me or my yuppie,anti-hunting,anti-gun,vegan, wife?

My wife does!!! I hate the things! I dont ever want my kid to glorify violance,dehumanize it, or ever,ever underestimate what a firearm can do. And all his friends have these shitbird games too. One of them brought over that auto-theft thing where the bad guy is beating hell out of everyone he see's. I made them physically remove it from the house. Ive done the same with this rap music crap. I litteraly make them hide it in the bushes outside.

I played these games as a child and still do and listen to rap. I have never even thought of raising my hand to someone else unless they hit me first. If you are raised properly you know the difference between right and wrong and real life and a video game. It is not America's job to raise your children, it is yours, which it seems as though your doing through your method, but there are other viable methods that allow these games and this music and still don't breed violence. Locking up any guns would be a start. My father is a big time hunter and always had his gun closet locked. He didn't even have to, I know what would happen if I touched one of those things anyway.

It's just as much the man's fault for having a child as the woman. If people don't want a child or want the responsibility, you need to keep your pants on. Sex has consequences. It all amounts to immaturity.

My father had many guns and the gun cabinet did not lock. Me or my other two brothers never touched a gun unless he was with us.

Yeah, my dad always said it was locked but in reality I have no idea if it was. The costs outweighed the benefit in my mind.

Originally posted by dg806
It's just as much the man's fault for having a child as the woman. If people don't want a child or want the responsibility, you need to keep your pants on. Sex has consequences. It all amounts to immaturity.

Whoa, dg806....you hit a major point right on the money here! And ya know how we hardly ever agree....

Teaching a teenage guy to keep his pants zipped up is just as important as discouraging a young girl from having a baby while she is still a child herself. As long as we keep encouraging guys that their teenage "rite of passage" is to openly pursue sex and try to deter it by only blaming the girls who "put out," we'll perpetuate the cycle.

Wow - I have read the whole thread. There is not much more to add. I find myself quoting what I just posted on another thread.

Quote:
I agree with you whole-heartedly, although when I look at where I'm at now and how I ended up here, I question whether it's always as clear as it may seem to you right now.

Sometimes the best of intentions get us into the worse messes. Just look at how many good people, who did the right thing, end up with children that just need to learn some of life's lessons the hard way. All we can do as single mothers is give it our best shot. - End Quote

There is one thing I would point out though. The reason we as a Society choose to support those young mothers is because the newborns should not be punished for being born.

My case was like this (and maybe I was wrong too but...):
My doctor told me to stop taking my pill and wait for my period before starting my new pill (that should have happened that week) - my period never came. At that time in my life I was not ready to have children, still trying to get my feet well grounded before starting a family. I was bent on doing it the right way. So I made an appointment to get an abortion. On the morning of my appointment my boyfriend begged me not to go. He wanted to get married and do it right. He finally convinced me and so I gave it my best shot. Then the cheating came in, then the beating and finally the divorce. He is now over 40 and still has no job and has never supported the 2 children we had together or the 1 child with the other now single mom.

So I don’t think all situations are the same and in my opinion they don’t all fit into one box. That's my 0.02 cents worth.

Very true, but should we as taxpayers be paying for somebody else's mistake? There are plenty of people waiting for adoption, I know 4 couples myself.