Thread: Bush Administration is fighting the media

Even I, a previous supporter of Bush, have trouble thinking that he thinks he can change public opinion. I say previous supporter because I voted for him and was happy with him for a while. I didn't agree with the invasion but I still supported him. Then, no WMDs were found and he changed his mission. It went from WMD to freeing Iraq. And just crap since then has really got me thinking who I am going to vote for.

You know the draft scares me. If I wanted to die for my country I would have signed up. If he keeps on getting us into wars that is a real possibility. I have a family I have to provide for financially and emotionally. I can't afford to die.

Sorry to go off topic, but at least I did comment on the subject

Originally posted by Michael D
You know the draft scares me.

We are SOOOOO far from ever re-introducing the draft it's funny. The chances of another draft are about a zillion-to-one, don't sweat it.

The All-Volunteer Military is a resounding success. It is the world's finest and there is no problem with recruiting, even during this war. As long as we pay our soldiers well and protect their families and benefits, we'll not need a draft.

A)The press conferences have not really done anything, in a day or 2 the press will go back to badmouthing him. Plus, there will be verdicts in this prisoner abuse scnadal further down the line which will bring it right back up to the forefront. Plus these individuals will refuse responsibility for doing this and try to push it off on their COs bringing it back as a systemic issue.

B)Considering I have 2 friends in active duty that were offered 2 more months and had that offer taken away, I don't feel a draft is even a remote possibility.

Originally posted by Dale Mabry
A)The press conferences have not really done anything, in a day or 2 the press will go back to badmouthing him.

Plus these individuals will refuse responsibility for doing this and try to push it off on their COs bringing it back as a systemic issue.

Well that is one week of bad-mouthing avoided by holding a press conference. Not bad.

The only soldier to be court-martialed so far pleaded guilty and admitted his wrong-doing.

How many are being tried? I can't remember, but I doubt they will all be upstanding like this guy. It seems to be vogue these days to push responsibilty for your errors off to someone else.

Originally posted by ALBOB
We are SOOOOO far from ever re-introducing the draft it's funny. The chances of another draft are about a zillion-to-one, don't sweat it.

that shit kills me that people even talk about a draft !

the odds of a draft EVER occuring are less than a transexual midget being elected president !

Originally posted by LAM

the odds of a draft EVER occuring are less than a transexual midget being elected president !

Didn't that just happen in 2000?

Originally posted by Dale Mabry
Didn't that just happen in 2000?

No, but the odds are the Billary will run in '08, so anything's possible.

Originally posted by austinite It is the world's finest and there is no problem with recruiting, even during this war.

Recruiting's not a success IN SPITE of the war, it's a success BECAUSE of the war. In times of conflict recruiting numbers always go up. Despite what cowards like Michael Moore, Al Franken, etc. believe, there are still young men and women who think this is a great country and want to defend it.

"""""""You know the draft scares me. If I wanted to die for my country I would have signed up. If he keeps on getting us into wars that is a real possibility. I have a family I have to provide for financially and emotionally. I can't afford to die."""""""""

Thats OK, we'll get someone elses kid to "die for you". ............dont worry about it..........take care..........Rich

Originally posted by ALBOB
No, but the odds are the Billary will run in '08, so anything's possible.

That's highly offensive Albob...






























Billary is a troll, not a midget.

Originally posted by Rich46yo
"""""""You know the draft scares me. If I wanted to die for my country I would have signed up. If he keeps on getting us into wars that is a real possibility. I have a family I have to provide for financially and emotionally. I can't afford to die."""""""""

Thats OK, we'll get someone elses kid to "die for you". ............dont worry about it..........take care..........Rich

Can it be yours? Don't even try to pin a non-patriotic stance on me. I am highly patriotic. I love where I live and the fact I am American. I am assuming that you feel everyone should join the military as it did not seem you were pleased with my decision to not do so. I have the most respect for our military and if I had to go, a complaint would be the last thing out of my mouth.

Here, read it again and then tell me how it sounds.
"""""""You know the draft scares me. If I wanted to die for my country I would have signed up. If he keeps on getting us into wars that is a real possibility. I have a family I have to provide for financially and emotionally. I can't afford to die."""""""""

"He", as in "Bush" didnt "get us into" this war. Terrorists got us into it, terrorists that are supported by tyrants and Nation states, whom have always supported terrorism. Saddam "got us into this war". He did it by violating every cease fire agreement and UN resolution ever passed Post Gulf War. Remember dont you? He attacked Kuwait, raped,pillaged, and slaughtered his Arab brother. And then lost the war lead by the United States. He had a huge,sophisticated WMD machine churning out Chem/Bio weapons and was on the verge of developeing nukes. He then systematically obstructed UN inspectors for over 10 years hiding and lieing about those programs. Who knows, you just might find some of his sarin under your porch this summer.

All evidence points to him having shipped what he had left to Syria. Not that the Syrians are cooperating, especially since they are also a terrorist sponsoring nation with a huge Chem?Bio stockpile.http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/wo...ria/index.html

Its still very possable Saddam hid some in his own country and we havnt been able to find them. He had about 5 years to completely erase evidence about them after kicking out the inspectors, another violation, one of hundreds he made, each one giving us legal precedent to attack him,"yeah that was part of the ceasefire agreement Iraq signed".

I dont know whats worse.1, Your cowardly, selfish, insensitive statement. 2, Your insult to the President.3, Or your ridiculous spreading of disinformation. You arent an agent of Russia,France,Germany, or the U.N. are you? Maybe stealing billions in the oil for food program?

Yeah your highly patriotic all right. A regular Paul Revere. Actually military recruiting has dipped since all this started. Im afraid there hasnt been a rush to the recruiters office by young Americans at all. I dont know where you guys got that from. At least your not telling me about your "brother in the army", "cousin in the marines", or "my dad who was in the navy". As if honorable military service can be shared and passed around like a salt shaker at the dinner table.

Just remember, "ask not what you can do for your country, but what your country can do for you". Did I get that right?................take care.........Rich

Originally posted by Dale Mabry
Billary is a troll, not a midget.

I stand corrected and I wish to offer a heartfelt appology to any midgets I may have offended.............................including Dale.

Originally posted by Rich46yo Actually military recruiting has dipped since all this started. Im afraid there hasnt been a rush to the recruiters office by young Americans at all. I dont know where you guys got that from.

I just retired after a 22 year Air Force career, three of which were spent as a recruiter. Not to brag too much, but I'm relatively informed about the subject. PLEASE do not take that as a flame, you and I are on the same side. Believe it or not, I think Michael D is also.

Originally posted by Rich46yo

Actually military recruiting has dipped since all this started. Im afraid there hasnt been a rush to the recruiters office by young Americans at all. I dont know where you guys got that from.

I think the thing is that most people who join the military (not all ie Pat Tillman) do it as a last resort because they have nowhere to go. Before, the threat of war was not so high so everyone was going in, one of my buddies included. He told me that in 2.5 years of service he prolly worked a total of 500 hours, but got paid as full-time. When the Towers were hit, he shit his pants and all of a sudden he was flying everywhere and when this war in Iraq started he was flying to Baghdad bringing back the war dead. He signed up for 6 more months and then got brought up to active duty again right after that.

I think now that we are at war, no one wants the armed sevices because they would actually have to fight. I actually though about going into them, but I can't tell you what i will be doing in 4 months let alone 4 years and a dishonorable discharge is not in the cards for me. I love the kind of stuff you get to do and train for in the armed forces, but I am not committing to anything for 4 years with a chance to be brought back for another 2.

Originally posted by Dale Mabry I can't tell you what i will be doing in 4 months let alone 4 years and a dishonorable discharge is not in the cards for me. I love the kind of stuff you get to do and train for in the armed forces, but I am not committing to anything for 4 years with a chance to be brought back for another 2.

This is absolutely NOT a slam aimed at you Dale. It's just that, as a recruiter, I heard this sooooooo many times. What I kept asking the kids is, "Do you always enter everything with such a defeatist attitude? Sorry, I just go into things with a much more positive attitude. I plan to be successful, I don't start that off by looking for a way out before I ever get in. "

I don't have to read my own statement again Rich. Maybe it was taken wrongly as you can only see letters that appear on your computer screen. You do not know me(I am sure you probably don't want to judging by your attitude).

Dale are you sure you are not a terrorist as well? Just asking before Rich could. I agree with the fact that most of the guys I know who went into the military, needed a job and did not know what they wanted to do. I didn't hear one say that he wanted to go to war.

The more "Americans" I see badmouthing America, the less I want to defend freedoms for them. I hope that the majority is not like that but when that is all you see in the news, it is hard to believe. I mean, my wife told me about this one guy came back from Iraq and got spit on by this old woman in a store they were in. I am sure that type of shit happens all the time just because of the types of people I deal with.

I didn't mean to sound like the way you perceived it. I guess I would fall into the category of people that would think twice before signing up during a war. I guess I don't deserve to be an American such as yourself.

As far as Bush getting us into war, how much of an imminent threat was Saddam? What about N Korea who openly said, "Yeah we got nukes" You don't have anymore proof than me that WMD exist or don't in Iraq or Syria or anywhere else. Paper covers up alot you know. What I do know, is that no WMD have been found in Iraq according to our administration. It is a good thing we went over there though, so that we could liberate Iraq from Saddams tyranny. I would have elected to just let Saddam continue doing it himself. Maybe he would have gotten some terrorists in those mass killings of his.

""""I think the thing is that most people who join the military (not all ie Pat Tillman) do it as a last resort because they have nowhere to go. """""

Wow, and here I was thinking "they" went in to improve themselves and serve their country. Heres another military expert telling us soldiers,sailors,marines,and airmen whats up......................Rich

Albob-It's not a defeatist attitude. If I had something better come along in 3 years, I would like to take it. If this were to happen at my current job, I could easily give them a month's notice and be out, not so easy with the military. Your life can turn on a dime and if you are signed to a contract for 4 years, regardless if it is a military contract or a job contract, you are stuck in it. It is much easier to get out of a job contract than a military one, however.

Rich-

So building a naked Iraqi pyramid is "improving" ones-self? You are truly an optimist, but perhaps maybe you should take a look at the world around you. I may be wrong, but I guessed that since recruitment numbers were down, serving wasn't as easy as it used to be. I would bet a large sum of money a majority of people who join the military do so because...

a)They will pay for school.
b)They pay well for what you actually do.

Sure, I am sure there are some legacies that are in it to serve their country just like their father and grandfather did, but if this explained why everyone joined, there wouldn't be a dip in recruitment right now, would there? By the way, you being in the military does not make you an expert on it either.

Originally Posted by Dale Mabry

Albob-It's not a defeatist attitude. If I had something better come along in 3 years, I would like to take it. If this were to happen at my current job, I could easily give them a month's notice and be out, not so easy with the military. Your life can turn on a dime and if you are signed to a contract for 4 years, regardless if it is a military contract or a job contract, you are stuck in it. It is much easier to get out of a job contract than a military one, however.

Rich-

So building a naked Iraqi pyramid is "improving" ones-self? You are truly an optimist, but perhaps maybe you should take a look at the world around you. I may be wrong, but I guessed that since recruitment numbers were down, serving wasn't as easy as it used to be. I would bet a large sum of money a majority of people who join the military do so because...

a)They will pay for school.
b)They pay well for what you actually do.

Sure, I am sure there are some legacies that are in it to serve their country just like their father and grandfather did, but if this explained why everyone joined, there wouldn't be a dip in recruitment right now, would there? By the way, you being in the military does not make you an expert on it either.

Dale a lot of people think the military is for slackers but it hasn't been that way in a very long time.

I joined after I finished college and went enlisted vs getting a commision because I knew it was just a stepping stone for me and it wouldn't be a career. I joined because I wanted to learn technical skills that I could always fall back on if I ever needed to. Plus after graduating college I found that a 21 year old with a college degree and no work experience isn't much better off then a 18 year old with a HS diploma.

In the service today it is very hard to get good schools, regardless of the branch unless you have brains. The military doesn't take criminals or HS dropouts anymore and only a few with GED's get in with a good school.

Personally I learned more in 5 years of active duty about people, dealing with people of different backgrounds and cultures and about life in general then I ever could have imagined. Unless you have been been in a combat zone you have no idea what stress is. Once you been in the miltary pretty much everything else in life is a joke...

Originally Posted by LAM

that's the way the miliary "used" to be but not any more.

Personally I learned more in 5 years of active duty about people, dealing with people of different backgrounds and cultures and about life in general then I ever could have imagined. Once you been in the miltary pretty much everything else in life is a joke...

In college, yeah, I learned some stuff, but none of it really matters once you hit the real world. Most of the stuff I have learned in order to be moderately succesful has been stuff I have learned by going out and getting to know people. I don't mean specific people, I mean in dealing with people in general. It is all a big game and unless you play it you will be worthless. The military's structure makes learning THAT game a requirement in order to survive in that environment.

Oops, i would like to point out that I nevrer meant to incinuate that the military is full of slackers. Some people just don't have the money for college or a specific skill set that would allow them to succeed in the civillian world. Would just like to clarify that.

I'm glad you clarified that. I'm in the military and have more college credits than alot of graduates do. As a matter of fact, I joined the military when I was in college.

I think it depends on the person. Sure, some join simply to get the college money (and, if you go while you are in the military - THEY pay 100% of the tuition nowadays).
Others, such as myself, joined simply to get out and see the world. I figured I could always go back and finish my degree if I didn't like it. Many years later, here I am, still in and still fighting when called to do so.

On the other hand, hehe, I can't wait to retire but am also considering staying in past the 20 year mark. Why? I love my job.

I'll be the first to say it's not for everyone, but like anything - it's what YOU make of it.

Getting back to the draft thing....won't happen. The military is trying to get rid of people right now. A draft would kind of defeat that purpose.

I enlisted because there was stuff I wanted to do in the military... and I know a ton more like that who didnt do it for the college or to get out of podunkville.

I had a good 5 years in the military and learned alot. I'm enjoying being a civilian now though

As to the war... I know guys that are signing up, some to pay for college, some to go out and do something, some just because they want to serve their country. The military probably isnt hurting so bad right now.

If they had a 2 year plan I would be in there.

Honestly, if I really wanted to plan for the future, IMO they have the best retirement you could possibly want. Don't you get a hell of alot of money for 20 years service? Imagine that, if you played your cards right, you could be retired at 38, or in Albob's case retarded at 40. .

It seems I am not the only person with my views. Maybe I'm not a terrorist after all