Thread: Another Bush Tax Cut

Originally Posted by solid10

It's hypocrites like Bush who use religion for the wrong things

Kerry is the hypocrite in this case for claiming to be a devout Catholic while supporting not just abortion, but even partial-birth abortion. He will lose the Catholic vote to Bush.

All politicians are hypocrites.

Originally Posted by Pepper

Link to supporters insisting he is appointed by God or STFU.

See Cleveland Plain-Dealer archives, about the end of February this year - I can't provide a link because it is a registered news service. However, I remarked about this letter from a Republican precinct committeeman several months ago:

"It was a letter to the Editor at the newspaper, written by an elected Republican precinct committeeman who related his attendance at a County Republican Lincoln Dinner last month. The event was attended by party members and major contributors. U.S. House Republican Majority Whip Tom DeLay of Texas was the keynote speaker.

In his remarks, DeLay talked about how all regulatory processes in the country should be "ripped out by the roots," and he said "we need to radically reform all social programs." The writer also related that Delay said the party's objectives act as "a shield for the defense of America's freedom and liberty and that we will never wander from the path." Not too bad (though some rather radical proposals) until this part:
"Lastly, he stated the leaders of the party, and particularly President Bush, have 'divine assistance and moral truth."
The writer, who described himself as a moderate Republican, went on to say:
"I have come to believe that my party looks and feels like a conservative-based religious movement. As a Republican who is a moderate and a fiscal conservative and has a social conscience, my concern is that our political leaders, who should serve us, are now on their own religious quest, using our civil legislative and judicial institutions."

Now, look at some remarks by Lt. General Boykin as reported in the Baptist Messenger:

"It would be a mistake to believe that Osama bin Laden is our enemy and to make him the face of what we're fighting," he warned. "We are battling something much bigger--a spiritual enemy. We are hated because we are a nation of believers.
"If you go back and look at the history of our nation, you will find that we are a nation founded on faith," Boykin said. "Read what the writers of our Constitution said and you will understand why Satan hates this nation."
Describing himself as a warrior in the kingdom of God, he invited others to join with him in fighting for our country through repentance, prayer and the exercise of faith in God. He praised the leadership of President George W. Bush, calling him "a man who prays in the Oval Office" and expressed his belief that God appointed Bush as president for "such a time as this."

These remarks were made in other speeches by Boykin, most notably one in which he explained: In another speech, Boykin suggested that God appointed Bush as president. "Why is this man in the White House? The majority of Americans did not vote for him. Why is he there? And I tell you this morning that he's in the White House because God put him there for a time such as this."

This plays really well in the Middle East. In the Yemen Times, the English-language newspaper, Muslims got to read this interpretation of the President's aims: " However, George Bush’s description of the war against Iraq as a “Crusade”, and more recently General Boykin’s description of Allah as merely an “idol” is just as inciting. General Boykin went on to say that the U.S. war against the Middle East is a Christian battle against Satan."

Now, the President himself managed to make this statement:

"I trust God speaks through me. Without that, I couldn't do my job."
Bush, as quoted during a private meeting with an Amish group.

You might try tuning into CBN for a nonstop litany about his divine appointment.

Originally Posted by austinite

Does it bother you that Bush is a man of faith? He has been rather open about it. Most Americans share that belief.

Also I disagree that my above comments were homophobic. I just acknowledged that the Gay/Lesbian vote is in the democratic camp, and that it does not really harm the GOP to out closet homosexuals.

Anyone can claim to be a man of "faith" which is one reason we vote for a President instead of a spiritual leader. . .or national pope. It doesn't bother anyone that the President is a man of faith, unless he decides the teachings of his particular denomination indicates that he must persecute other Americans or show favoritism towards certain religious groups in delegating federal tax money.

Saying that "most Americans share that belief" is like saying everyone thinks the same ideological lines as the president. There's a reason that most states wrote very clear constitutional provisions about the role of religion - that every man is free to worship according to his own conscience. That means that most Americans do NOT share Bush's conscience - they have their own and their own relationship with God. Nor do most Americans belong to his denomination or apply the principles of that faith in the same manner. . .and certainly not as a claim to moral correctness over others.

While the Constitution provides that no religious litmus test be accorded someone running for public office, a public official who uses his personal religious faith to label other denominations "christian" or "non-christian" according to his own teachings is using political power to recognize certain beliefs and interpretations as official.

Actually, a score of outings will likely damage the GOP for quite some time, given their dubious track record of vilifying one group of Americans in order to exploit the votes and support of evangelicals. The hypocrisy of hatred that some religious groups revile gays (note Jimmy Swaggart's endorsement of Bush while saying he would kill a gay man who would "look" at him that way) would not play so well as those people realize the Administration hides the repugnant sinners all over in the Administration and Congress, many of whom quite regularly commit any number of sins including lies, deceit, adultery. . .but wait. . .those are all valid moral behaviors for The Party when it's creating a smear campaign to gain power. It will look even moreso when the base sees how deeply committed the Party is to harboring those very people they revile.

Hiding behind the mask of religion while breaking commandments and persecuting others is hardly an indication of commitment to God. The Party hasn't done a good job telling their own gay Party members that "this isn't against YOU." That's largely because the organizations within the Party attacking them have a very long history of doing so in every aspect of their existence and have a suspicious agenda that will make it impossible for the President to bridge. When the Party embraced that as a campaign ploy, the term "christian" became just another buzzword cliche for a meaningless and vague sense of fluid morality. It has done nothing to unify a country that is supposed to be at war. . .and it will likely alienate over 20 million Americans and their own families for decades.

Again, he is supposed to be President of the whole nation. . .and when he is sworn into office, he is required to uphold the Constitution for all Americans. Urging an amendment to force thousands of them to flee their own country is hardly a wise approach to governing a free society or protecting the rights of all.

Originally Posted by austinite

Kerry is the hypocrite in this case for claiming to be a devout Catholic while supporting not just abortion, but even partial-birth abortion. He will lose the Catholic vote to Bush.

By that reasoning, no christian should vote for any major party candidate. Most major religious denominations condemn the death penalty, believe in social welfare programs, detest deception and manipulation, especially in people with positions over others, and believe in helping the poor. They also don't embrace greed, advocate war, or subscribe to vilifying their neighbor, whether they be muslim, jewish, or atheist.Some might claim Bush isn't a christian because he wears clothing with different fabric blends or eats shellfish on the campaign trail.

Kerry won't lost the Catholic vote at all. Every poll taken of American catholics indicated that they didn't want a President who took direction from the Pope or begged the Vatican to intervene in American domestic policy; did not believe that the Church should tell them how to vote or what issues are most important according to the Vatican, and questioned the emphasis on evangelical protestant concerns over long opposition to capital punishment.
Catholics are painfully aware of certain Church doctrine that enabled the coverup of sexual abuse of parishioner children. The bishop will vote for Bush, who understands the importance of secrecy; the parish will vote for another candidate.

Originally Posted by kbm8795

By that reasoning, no christian should vote for any major party candidate. Most major religious denominations condemn the death penalty, believe in social welfare programs, detest deception and manipulation, especially in people with positions over others, and believe in helping the poor. They also don't embrace greed, advocate war, or subscribe to vilifying their neighbor, whether they be muslim, jewish, or atheist.Some might claim Bush isn't a christian because he wears clothing with different fabric blends or eats shellfish on the campaign trail.

Kerry won't lost the Catholic vote at all. Every poll taken of American catholics indicated that they didn't want a President who took direction from the Pope or begged the Vatican to intervene in American domestic policy; did not believe that the Church should tell them how to vote or what issues are most important according to the Vatican, and questioned the emphasis on evangelical protestant concerns over long opposition to capital punishment.
Catholics are painfully aware of certain Church doctrine that enabled the coverup of sexual abuse of parishioner children. The bishop will vote for Bush, who understands the importance of secrecy; the parish will vote for another candidate.

Although I disagree with your generalistic description of Christians, I must admit that is a very good counter-argument.

Still, the Pope and Cardinals have commented publicy on Catholic politicians that support abortion.

Oh, and I do believe that Kerry will lose the Catholic vote.

http://www.catholic.org/featured/headline.php?ID=1087

Originally Posted by redspy

I think it sounds better coming from the great man himself:-


Dubya in 2000.

He's been backed up by Gen William "Jerry" Boykin (the general responisble for tracking down Bin Laden):-

I say stuff that all the time, that is a a FAR CRY from saying you were annointed by God. I know that these details will not stop you from your rant, but...

KBM, the death penalty is SUPPORTED by most Christians. It is a Biblical form of punishment.

http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/b...on&showxref=on

Originally Posted by Pepper

I say stuff that all the time, that is a a FAR CRY from saying you were annointed by God. I know that these details will not stop you from your rant, but...

I thought you had me on ignore?

Originally Posted by Pepper

KBM, the death penalty is SUPPORTED by most Christians. It is a Biblical form of punishment.

http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/b...on&showxref=on

A lot of denominational groups strongly oppose the death penalty, including the official doctrine of the Catholic Church.

Originally Posted by solid10

I did better with Clinton in office than with bush now. Tax breaks? Maybe for the big corporations. You checked the price of milk lately?

\

Off the top of my head, I can't think of anything in the tax bill that benefited corporations. I guess you can argue that the reduction of tax on dividends benefited corporations.

As I have said many times, if you are going to reduce taxes, you have to do so for the rich b/c they are paying most of the taxes.

Originally Posted by austinite

This guy is running political circles around his opponents. Most democrats reluctantly voted for this bill because they didn't want to have to go face their constituents a few weeks before an election and have to explain why they voted against a middle class tax cut.

Now Bush will get the high-profile photo-op of signing this bill into law, which will win him votes.

The dems have been owned on this one.

Austinite,

Anyway you look at it the tax cut is foolish. We will end up paying for it dearly and in the end it is helping no one really. The interest that will have to be paid on this when the bill comes in will choak us to death along with all the others Bush "gave" us - remember we DO have to REPAY that debt WITH INTEREST - the longer it stays unpaid the MORE interest that has to be paid on that debt AND THE DEBT ITSELF. It was a very stupid move on the part of Bush.

John H.

Originally Posted by John H.

Anyway you look at it the tax cut is foolish

This is just crap. Sorry, it is. Tax cuts get the economy moving. We really needed that after 9/11. I am not very high on Bush for several reasons, but this is not one of them. We needed a tax cut and we needed it badly.