Thread: Why We Back Bush, JC Watts et al

Originally Posted by BoneCrusher

You sir are a Bush freak and would not accept a logical piece of truth if it bit you in the ass. I have several sites you could go and get an education from if you actually choose to use your own mind to form an opinion ... instead of just echoing the shit you hear on Rush's broadcast.

Not a Bush freak !
But I can't stand Kerry and his liberal buddies and the socialist/communist policies they want to implement.

Please give me the sites so I can learn. I am open.
Just don't give me crap like moveon.org

Moveon.org is all about being a Democrat and getting Deomcrats back into power. Fuck that ... I am a Republican on issues.

1. Bush's tax cuts overwhelmingly favor the wealthy. The top 1% will save more than $30,000 per year while 31% save nothing at all. Source: Citizens for Tax Justice and AFL/CIO
2. The nation faces a record $500 billion deficit. The biggest cause of the deficit is Bush's tax cuts. Source: www.govexec.com
3. The Bush Administration is systematically turning back 30 years of environmental progress. Source: Sierra Club
4. President Bush is under-funding education with the smallest percentage increase in funding in eight years. Source: Committee on Education and the Workforce
5. 2.9 million jobs have been lost under the Bush Administration. Source: New York Times
6. Bush misled the public about the reasons for going to war with Iraq. No weapons of mass destruction have been found. Source: The Guardian
7. Bush's Medicare bill helps corporations, not the elderly. 43.6 million U.S. citizens do not have health care. Source: www.misleader.org
8. Halliburton, the company where Vice President Dick Cheney was CEO, was given multi-billion dollar contracts in Iraq without competitive bidding. Source: New York Review of Books
9. Pentagon officials found that Halliburton overcharged the U.S. government by $61 million for gasoline in Iraq. Source: Associated Press
10. Bush has tried to roll back more than 200 of America 's environmental laws. The United States emits more greenhouse gases than any other country. Source: Rolling Stone

This is just a start. I have a great many more if you get thru these without a stroke.

.

I just want to point out that 1000 is a very low number

there have been battles where 1000's have died in less than an hour...think about it

we are doing a great job

The soldiers are doing a GREAT job. I want to see them all safe and back at home ... but 2000 less of them dead is a good goal.

Originally Posted by BoneCrusher

Moveon.org is all about being a Democrat and getting Deomcrats back into power. Fuck that ... I am a Republican on issues.

1. Bush's tax cuts overwhelmingly favor the wealthy. The top 1% will save more than $30,000 per year while 31% save nothing at all. Source: Citizens for Tax Justice and AFL/CIO
2. The nation faces a record $500 billion deficit. The biggest cause of the deficit is Bush's tax cuts. Source: www.govexec.com
3. The Bush Administration is systematically turning back 30 years of environmental progress. Source: Sierra Club
4. President Bush is under-funding education with the smallest percentage increase in funding in eight years. Source: Committee on Education and the Workforce
5. 2.9 million jobs have been lost under the Bush Administration. Source: New York Times
6. Bush misled the public about the reasons for going to war with Iraq. No weapons of mass destruction have been found. Source: The Guardian
7. Bush's Medicare bill helps corporations, not the elderly. 43.6 million U.S. citizens do not have health care. Source: www.misleader.org
8. Halliburton, the company where Vice President Dick Cheney was CEO, was given multi-billion dollar contracts in Iraq without competitive bidding. Source: New York Review of Books
9. Pentagon officials found that Halliburton overcharged the U.S. government by $61 million for gasoline in Iraq. Source: Associated Press
10. Bush has tried to roll back more than 200 of America 's environmental laws. The United States emits more greenhouse gases than any other country. Source: Rolling Stone

This is just a start. I have a great many more if you get thru these without a stroke.

.

Thanks, I will definitely take a look at them.

Since I am a CPA, I can tell you that #1 makes great headlines, but it is a bunch of baloney. The tax cuts were across the board for all levels of income. The only people who did not get a so called tax cut were the people who did not pay any tax at all.

#9 above on an overcharge. They need to repay it plus penalties.

I will look at the rest, thanks again.

Originally Posted by milliman

Yo Bone and Redspy,

Rather than say Bush is ruining the environment, which has not substance to it at all, describe what he / his administration has done that is different that what the Democrats would have done.

I will give you a concrete example.
Read Gore's book, he thought the automobile (combustion engine) was evil and ruining the environment. so he want to put a tax on gas to make it 5 dollars a gallon like it is in Europe. At this price, the number of miles driven would drastically go down since many people could not afford the gas.

Kerry is in the same camp. Is this what you want ?

Here in California (my stomping grounds), the land of fruits and nuts, the democrats control both houses. Thank goodness Ahnold is here to hold them off. Lets see if you support these ideas of theirs:
1) Free college for illegal aliens (but residents of Calif or other states pay)
2) Free medical coverage, food stamps, housing assistance and welfare for
any child of an illegal alien born here (plus the mom).
3) Remember our wildfires ? Fire dept tells you to clear stuff 100 to 300 ft
from your house. But you can't because many places it is illegal
because you can't disturb the ground without a permit. To get a permit
you need to have a study done on what lives there and what you
might do to it. So in a nutshell, the stuff there is more important
than the people or their lives.
4) The runoff from our freeways has oil in it. The environmentalists want
us to go back and replumb all of the sewers to catch this water and
treat it so it will not go in the ocean.
5) We add special additives into our gas that make it cost more but
supposedly burn cleaner. (89 octane now at 233/gal)
Now it is in our water supply.
What is worse, some smog or polluted water ?
6) they have proposed a surtax if you drive too much (over 10,000 miles)
8) No power plants built in the last 25 years due to environment concerns
So we have the highest cost of electricity (.20 per Kwh)
9) California outlawed combustion engines back in the 1980's effective in 93.
They thought they would pioneer the way to new cars. When 93 came
and they found that they no cars could be sold here, there rescinded
the law.
10) Drivers licenses for all illegals, with no restrictions.
How do you combat terrorists in our country when they can get a
drivers license that easy ? The DL gets you into everything and planes.
11) Benefits for all Gay partners
12) No limits on frivilous law suits. (here are a few for you)
These should be laughed out of court.
Remember the lady who sued Mcdonalds for spilling hot coffee
where the sun don't shine, and won.
How about people who sue ski resorts because they get sick at high
altitude sick
How about someone who sues a gynm because they break a toe by
dropping a weight on there toe.
How about the lady who sued the dept store for falling over some kid
and breaking her arm. It was her own kid.

All of these just increase the cost of doing business. And this is just passed on to the customer. Thats right, you and me.

So I do not think it is okay. What about you

If you read my posts you'd see I've never heaped praise on John Kerry or John Edwards for that matter. I'm obviously to the left of you and many others but that doesn't mean I have to tow the Democratic party line on all issues. While I do agree with a number of Democratic and Libertarian principles it doesn't make me a mouthpiece of those parties.

John Kerry et al don't have the answers to all the problems in this country. However, the question I pose to myself is 'who has the ability to improve the country after the direction it's been going in for the four years?' My belief is that any of the other main candidates (Kerry and Nader) will improve the situation. After four years of Bush in office I have all the information I need to make a clear, informed decision.

By the way, I agree with you on a lot of the California issues you've rasied above, with the exception of number 11. I personally have nothing against gays and the lifestyle they choose.

Yo Bonecrusher, here is the Sierra Club stuff. Some makes sense, other stuff puts all environmental stuff ahead of anything for humans.


SIERRA CLUB PICKS WORST BUSH ADMINISTRATION ENVIRONMENTAL EXPLOITS OF 2003
"The full list of 2003 Bush administration actions, ranked according to the survey response, appears below. To subscribe to RAW, visit http://www.sierraclub.org/raw.

1. MERCURY RISING - Issued public health warnings to pregnant women and children about mercury after announcing policy changes to triple amount of mercury pollution allowed from power plants.

This article talks about mercury emitted by coal fired power plants. The tripling of the allowable mercury levels was to allow the plants to operate for a short time until new more efficient power plants can be built. Since we had an energy shortage, Bush decided that they could operate for a short period longer rather than subject everyone to either excessively high energy costs or shortages. What would you give a higher priority. If electricity shuts down, so does our whole economy.
I think this was the prudent thing to do.


2. SUPER DUPED - Became first administration to support shifting burden of Superfund toxic waste cleanups from polluters to taxpayers.

The superfund was set up to clean up toxic waste areas. They would go and sue corporations/people to clean up areas that they "contaminated". This included entities who knowingly dumped acid and oil into the environment, to entities that did everything that was fully legal to the letter of the law. This was the so-called 20:20 hindsight rule. In other words, we now know this is bad, so we are gong to sue you to clean it up even though it was proper back then. ie, a gas station that had a leaking tank underground.

The problem was, that many of these entities went out of business. So the superfund spent a lot of time and money on trying to sue bankrupt entities instead of cleaning up the mess. Now if superfund is a budget item, they wil clean up the mess first and also go after the polluters.

So I think this is actually good, the mess will get cleaned up faster.

3. SOOTY SANTA - Dismantled provision of Clean Air Act that requires oldest, dirtiest power plants and refineries to curb soot and smog pollution.

My understanding of this is that the Bush Administration gave two or three year waivers to old power plants so they could produce electricity until newer more efficient power plants came on line. This was to help solve the electricity shortage we had out here on the left coast.

Again, this is a good thing.

4. BACK IN BLACKOUT - Proposed a national Energy Bill that did nothing to reduce dependence on foreign oil, repair or address antiquated electricity grid, or protect special places from oil and gas drilling.

See #5 below - The only way to decrease dependance on foreign oil is to decrease our demand or increase our supply, or a combo of both. In #5 below, Bush tried to allow oil companies to drill in Alaska. The Sierra Club does not want any drilling there.

The last time I checked electric companies were privately held, so how would Bush address this. We do not want the electric system nationalized do we ?

5. DRILLING WILDERNESS - Opened nearly 9 million pristine acres in Northwest Alaska to the oil and gas industry for exploration and drilling.

This is good, we need more oil. Putting in some pipelines in the middle of an area where almost nobody goes is not a problem. The current Alaska pipeline has not caued all of the doom and gloom that the Sierra Club talked about the last time.

6. STONEWALLING, BIG TIME (tied)- Continued to withhold documents from secret meetings between Bush/Cheney Energy Task Force and energy industry lobbyists.

Agreed, this should be allowed for all to see.

6. DON'T AX, DON'T TELL (tied) - Promoted a wildfire policy that expanded commercial logging in the backcountry but did little to protect people where they live.

Isn't this good? Aren't they just thinning out the trees so if a fire goes thru it doesn't get out of control due to all of the excess wood ?

7. NEXT STOP, SHINOLA - Allowed untreated sewage to be blended with treated sewage, cut funding for local sewage treatment, and didn't require health officials to warn public about sewage in water.

Does not sound good
8. CRITICAL CONDITION - Obliterated the process of critical habitat designation for imperiled wildlife under the Endangered Species Act.

? ? ? ?

9. COP OFF - Continued pattern of willful negligence for enforcement of even basic clean water and clean air laws.

This may refer to San Diego. We only have primary treatment and dump our stuff 1 mile out in the ocean. Every 5 years we get an exemption to keep it this way. As opposed to spending estimated 5 billion to upgrade to secondary treatment which makes sewage as clean as drinking water. Most of the professors, Jacques Cousteau society etcetera agree that it would be a huge waste of money to force us to upgrade. The secondary treatment was meant for city's on rivers where people downstream have to rely on the water to drink. Not our case. But most people agree with what we are doing.

Sierra club is also after the San Onofre nuclear plant since they discharged water is 3 or 4 degrees warmer than the surrounding water, therefore they think the generating facility should be shut down. The is just goofy ? Why would you shut it down , to the detriment of all of the families supported by it ? But if you say the it is a loophole that benefits some wealthy corporation, then it sounds good.

10. POST 9/11 LIES - Discovered by EPA Inspector General to have lied about post 9/11 environmental health hazards near Ground Zero.

Definitley a bad thing if the stuff was bad for people to breathe. Were any other talking heads or experts bringing up the problems ?

11. ROAD WARRIOR - Expanded the legal loophole that allows obnoxious road claims through federally protected wilderness, national parks, and public lands.

? ? ?

12. HOG WASH - Secretly negotiated backroom deal to exempt giant animal factories from laws governing air and toxic pollution.

This is a tough question to deal with. Suppose you had a chicken farm and have owned it for 50 years. The city grows and houses go up around you. Now the neighbors want your chicken farm shut down because it draws flies. Who should be allowed to stay, you (50 years) or the new neighbors who just moved in ? In california they try to make them move by saying they do not meet the air pollution rules. Too much ammonia in the air. This may be a temporary waiver until they can find a new site, or it may be a permanent waiver since they were there first.

this happens all the time. Houses move in under an airport and want the airport to move. Dumps, gravel pits, you name it. Who should win?
13. POLLUTED LOGIC - Refused to classify industrial carbon emissions, linked to global warming, as an official pollutant under the Clean Air Act.

Global warming is not a proven fact and many scientists disagree on this. As a brain bender, they have take core samples from the arctic and found the temperatures millions of years ago used to be warmer than they are now . Now we all know they did not have cars then, so why was it warmer ? This is what caused the ice age to melt away supposedly.

14. HOT AIR - Proposed fantasy hydrogen power initiative to improve auto fuel efficiency rather than promoting more proven technologies like gas-electric hybrids.

I thought in #4 above he did nothing to promote reduction of oil. Well which way is it ? Hydrogen power is one of the hot ideas floating around. All things start as ideas. solar power was a fantasy before and now it has come about. They keep making it more efficient but it still needs more help.
15. ESTATE TOX - Ended a 25-year ban on the sale of PCB-laden real estate.

How long should you wait before you sell it ? It is only really bad if you are going to grow crops on it and get it in the food supply.

Originally Posted by redspy

If you read my posts you'd see I've never heaped praise on John Kerry or John Edwards for that matter. I'm obviously to the left of you and many others but that doesn't mean I have to tow the Democratic party line on all issues. While I do agree with a number of Democratic and Libertarian principles it doesn't make me a mouthpiece of those parties.

John Kerry et al don't have the answers to all the problems in this country. However, the question I pose to myself is 'who has the ability to improve the country after the direction it's been going in for the four years?' My belief is that any of the other main candidates (Kerry and Nader) will improve the situation. After four years of Bush in office I have all the information I need to make a clear, informed decision.

By the way, I agree with you on a lot of the California issues you've rasied above, with the exception of number 11. I personally have nothing against gays and the lifestyle they choose.

Redspy, long time to talk.

I like discussing stuff with you. I agree with some of your points too.
And I, like you, do not agree with all that the party in power is doing. But I guess we can agree to disagree on who will do a better job for the future.

Keep the good info coming. Debating issues is good.
If I listen to myself all the time, I always agree with me.

wow, that was a really long one.