Thread: Why We Back Bush, JC Watts et al

Is that what Kerry was doing? could've fooled me? I haven't heard any race talk.

Truthful I have not heard it from him either. I have heard it from a few of his supports here though.

Racism is a toucy/strange issue. Everybody sees it. It just looks different. I'm a white male engineering student. Try walking around at a job fair in that demagraphic! I happen to go to school in a very black area (Southfield, on the Detroit outskirts). I have been refused service in a hair sallon because she didn't want to "touch my nappy white head" and I've even been spit at by an elderly black woman at the super market (no warning or prevoius conversation with her, she just gave me a dirty look and fired away).

Neither candidate will make a change on that issue. It's the stem cell issues, and Bush's refusal to support any scientific programs (accept in developing nuclear bunker destroying weapons) that really bothers me. I whole-heartedly beleive the future of our nation depends on it.

Originally Posted by Luke9583

Neither candidate will make a change on that issue. It's the stem cell issues, and Bush's refusal to support any scientific programs (accept in developing nuclear bunker destroying weapons) that really bothers me. I whole-heartedly beleive the future of our nation depends on it.

Bush didn't outlaw stem cell research. He only banned EMBRYONIC stem cell research, and while doing so, said research could continue with the cells they already have - they just can't get new ones. The only ones (stem cells) that have worked are from other sources.

If you are just now hearing about the nuclear bunker busters, then....Jeez. Where do you get your news? This story has been mentioned quite a few times in the last year. (Don't mean to sound harsh, don't know how else to put it).

Cheers.

Are Bush appointees racist?


By Jake Tapper
- - - - - - - - - -

October 20, 2000 |

In 1997, Gov. George W. Bush named Marshall Police Chief Charles Williams to the state's Commission on Law Enforcement Officer Standards and Education.

In 1998, Williams testified in a court case that terms like "porch monkey" and "black bastard" were not offensive. "If it's in a general statement, no, I don't consider it a racial slur," Williams said. He went on to argue that when he was growing up, blacks didn't mind being called "nigger."

"I was born and raised with blacks," Williams said. "And back then we had Nigger Charlie and Nigger Sam, Nigger Joe. And we regarded those people with all the respect in the world. That was their name They didn't mind. It wasn't any big deal then."

In 1999, Bush named Williams chairman of the commission.

After Williams' comments were publicized -- Bush claimed that he hadn't know of them when he promoted Williams to head up the commission -- Bush said, "I don't accept racism in any shape or form. At the very minimum, he ought to apologize." Williams was good enough to eventually resign, becoming just another little-known footnote to Campaign 2000. He died soon after.

To Bush's Democratic opponents, however, Williams was no anomaly. They point to a story in Wednesday's Houston Chronicle, for instance, detailing yet more allegations of racism against yet another 1997 Bush appointee.

On Feb. 2, Texas Health Commissioner William "Reyn" Archer III had a conversation with an associate commissioner, Dr. Demetria Montgomery, that Montgomery taped. In the conversation, Archer made several odd and possibly offensive comments, including an admonition about Montgomery's predilection for facts.

"Facts lead to lynchings," Archer said.

"You're smart. You're capable. You're fair (-skinned) as a black woman," Archer went on. "You get certain privileges in white culture that others don't get for that."

On Sept. 20, Montgomery was fired; on Monday, armed with the tape, she filed a sex and race discrimination complaint against Archer and another Health Commission supervisor with the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission.

A Bush spokesman has said that Bush called Archer's comments "inappropriate."

Maybe, but the comments were not uncharacteristic. Earlier this year, Archer said, according to the Austin American-Statesman, that there is a cultural resistance among Latinos to the idea that "getting pregnant is a bad thing."

"If I were to go to a Hispanic community and say, 'Well, we need to get you into family planning,' they say, 'No, I want to be pregnant,'" Archer said. He later apologized for the comments, which Bush said was good enough for him.

As Health Commissioner, Archer -- son of Rep. Bill Archer, R-Texas -- has cut funding for school health clinics because they offer birth control.

He previously served under Bush's father, former President George Bush, as Deputy Assistant Secretary for Population Affairs, where he was blasted by left-leaning members of the family-planning community in the Washington Post for "accept(ing) tax dollars to run a program he's basically trying to destroy."

Bush campaign spokesman Ray Sullivan did not sound surprised that Democrats were pushing the Houston Chronicle story, but dismissed it as an effort to smear the governor. "The Democratic Party and the Gore campaign are resorting to irresponsible scare tactics to frighten people into the voting booth," Sullivan said. "It's unfortunate that they twist and distort the truth that way. The fact is that [of the appointments] Gov. Bush has made to state boards and commissions, 52 percent have been women or minorities."

Redspy left out the URL, it is:
www.sametiredoldcrap.com

hmm..here's an interesting one about the faith-based initiatives from the San Francisco Chronicle....:






Moonies knee-deep in faith-based funding
Pushing celibacy, marriage counseling under Bush plan

Don Lattin, Chronicle Religion Writer
Sunday, October 3, 2004


President Bush has some new troops in his crusade to promote "healthy marriage" and teen celibacy with federal funds -- followers of the Rev. Sun Myung Moon, the controversial Korean evangelist and self-proclaimed new world messiah.

At least four longtime operatives of Moon's Unification Church are on the federal payroll or getting government grants in the administration's Healthy Marriage Initiative and other "faith-based" programs.

Two of those Moon associates were in Oakland last week leading dozens of local pastors and social workers enrolled in a "Certified Marriage Education Training Seminar" at the Holiday Inn next to the Coliseum.

In some ways, Moon is an unlikely ally for President Bush's crusade to promote traditional family values.

The 85-year-old Korean is perhaps best known for presiding over mass marriage ceremonies for devotees whose unions are arranged by Moon or other church leaders. After marriage, Unification Church couples are given detailed instructions for their honeymoon, right down to the sexual positions they are supposed to assume during their first three conjugal couplings.

According to Unification Church teachings, the children born from these marriages are "blessed children,'' who, unlike the rest of humanity, are born without original sin.

At the Oakland seminar, Josephine Hauer, a graduate of the Rev. Moon's Unification Theological Seminary in New York and a newly hired "marriage specialist" with the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, worked the crowd of ministers and church workers packed into a stuffy room.

"Family is a good thing," said Hauer, holding a cordless microphone in one hand and her PowerPoint remote in the other. "I want to make this a marriage culture again -- a healthy marriage culture.''

As Hauer spoke, the Rev. Bento Leal, another graduate of the seminary and the associate minister at the Bay Area Family Church, a Unification Church congregation in San Leandro, checked a list of names at the door.

Before her new federal job, Hauer was the director of marriage education at the University of Bridgeport in Bridgeport, Conn. That school was taken over in 1992 by the Professors World Peace Academy, a Moon-affiliated group, and its current president, Neil Salonen, is a former president of the Unification Church in America.

After less than three days, attendees of the Sept. 23-25 seminar in Oakland were awarded a "Certified Marriage Education Professional Document of Completion," issued by Moon's University of Bridgeport.

"Sixteen hours of training won't make you the best marriage educator," Hauer told her students. "But it takes all kinds of work to save marriage -- people to run the sound system, write the press releases.''

During a seminar break, Hauer declined to answer any questions about her ties to the Unification Church.

"I'm a professional. I don't talk about my religion or my politics," she said. "My religion is not an issue.''

Bush administration officials agreed.

"We don't ask people's religious affiliation before we hire them,'' said Wade Horn, assistant secretary for children and families at the Department of Health and Human Services.

"But if someone uses federal funds to proselytize, that would be a violation,'' Horn said. "It doesn't matter whether they are Baptist, Presbyterian, Jewish, or even members of the Unification Church."

Last week's crash course on marriage education was sponsored by the California State Healthy Marriage Initiative, an organization founded two years ago by the Rev. Dion Evans, pastor of Chosen Vessels Christian Church in Oakland.

Last month, Evans and his partners won a $366,179 grant from the Bush administration's Compassion Capital Fund -- part of the latest $45 million in social service contracts given to churches and community groups from the program this year.

"For four years, I did this work with no government funds,'' said Evans, adding that he has not yet received his first check from the Compassion Capital Fund. Evans said he partnered with the University of Bridgeport because "acknowledgement from a university gives them (seminar participants) support.''

"We had to settle for the University of Bridgeport,'' he said. "This is the last time we will be using them."

Critics say the Oakland program shows how difficult it is to give money to religious organizations while maintaining separation of church and state.

"Moon has been a big backer of the faith-based initiative,'' said the Rev. Barry Lynn, executive director of Americans United for the Separation of Church and State. "But it's beyond belief that you can have the University of Bridgeport issuing marriage education certificates and claim that is secular.''

Lynn said the Oakland program also shows how "there is virtually no monitoring of where this money is going.''

"Money goes out and nobody knows how it's used and nobody knows what it's for,'' he said.

Following the money from the federal government to the streets of Oakland is not easy.

The organization that actually received the federal grant is the Institute for Contemporary Studies, a conservative think tank in Oakland and one of Evans' key partners in the California Healthy Marriage Initiative.

That partnership comes through another recently founded organization, the Bay Area Inner City Leadership Alliance.

It was founded by the Rev. Walter L. Humphrey, the pastor of Moriah Christian Fellowship Baptist Church in Oakland, and Robert Hawkins Jr., president of the Institute for Contemporary Studies. Board members include Evans and Leal, the Unification Church minister. Leal said the Institute for Contemporary Studies, not the Unification Church, applied for the federal funding for the marriage education training.

"Unificationism is my own faith," Leal said. "This just gives me a chance to work with clergy who are also interested in this issue.''

Hawkins, the director of the Institute for Contemporary Studies, said Moon's teachings were not part of the marriage education program.

"Bento (Leal) has never proselytized, and I didn't know Josie (Hauer) was a Moonie,'' he said. "I just looked at her curriculum and thought it was good.''

Hawkins said the project is designed to give pastors of smaller inner city churches new skills for "marriage and family strengthening."

"It's an experiment," he said. "You have to start somewhere.''

Moon has also partnered with the Bush administration in support of the Korean evangelist's strong teachings against premarital sex.

Free Teens USA, an after-school program in New Jersey promoting abstinence until marriage, has been given $475,000 by the federal Health Resources and Services Administration, another part of the Department of Health and Human Services. Free Teens is led by Richard Panzer, another alumnus of Unification Theological Seminary. Panzer was also a leader in the American Constitution Committee, one of many political organizations affiliated with Moon.

Panzer insists that his program is "devoid of any religious content.''

"I am a Unificationist, but I am also a professional,'' he said. "The purpose of Free Teens is not to bring young people to any one religious faith.''

Another longtime political operative in Moon front groups, David Caprara, now directs the Office of Faith-Based and Community Initiatives for the federal government's Corporation for National and Community Service. That agency runs, among other things, AmeriCorps Vista, which works with community organizations in low-income neighborhoods, and has emerged as a key player in Bush's faith-based initiative, handing out $61 million to faith-based organizations in fiscal year 2003.

Caprara is the former president of the American Family Coalition, a "grassroots leadership alliance" funded by the Washington Times Foundation and founded by Moon in 1984.

Caprara declined to comment on his Unification Church ties, referring questions to his press secretary, Sandy Scott.

"We don't inquire about employee's personal religious beliefs,'' Scott said. "What inspires David's work is a dedication to fighting poverty.''

During the 1970s, Moon's Unification Church was widely accused of deceptively recruiting and "brainwashing" idealistic converts on street corners and college campuses across the nation.

In 1982, Moon made headlines around the world when he presided over a mass marriage ceremony involving 2,075 couples in New York's Madison Square Garden.

Late that decade, Moon spent a year in federal prison after being convicted of income tax evasion.

For the past three decades, his controversial sect has struggled to make the leap from "cult" to "religion," to win credibility among political and religious leaders in the United States and around the world.

Through such publications as the Washington Times, a church-financed, conservative daily newspaper in the nation's capital, and through alliances with priests and pastors across the theological spectrum, Moon and company have spent a fortune courting the opinion-makers of church and state.

Moon showed an early interest in the Bush administration's faith-based initiative. In the spring of 2001, the American Leadership Conference, a project of the Caprara's American Family Coalition and Washington Times Foundation, sponsored a "Faith-Based Initiative Summit," a conference that was transmitted via satellite to 40 gatherings in churches and hotel meeting rooms across the country.

That summit came just months after one of President Bush's strongest supporters in the Christian Right, TV evangelist Pat Robertson, warned that religious cults would soon be eligible for federal funds.

In the Feb. 20, 2001, broadcast of his "700 Club" television show, Robertson said the president's faith-based initiative "could be a real Pandora's box."

"What seems to be such a great initiative can rise up to bite the organizations as well as the federal government," said Robertson, who expressed particular concern about federal money going to the Church of Scientology, the Hare Krishas and "the Moonies."

Robertson and Bush have since come to a meeting of minds on the president's faith-based initiative.

Another of the 145 recipients in the most recent outlay of the Compassion Capital Fund was Robertson's charity, Operation Blessing International, which got $500,000 from the Department of Health and Human Services.

Originally Posted by Pepper

Redspy left out the URL, it is:
www.sametiredoldcrap.com

And the one Pooper forgot is
http://www.IHaveNoBrainSoILetGod&BushDecide.com

Pepper loses his debate skills when confronted with Bush history. All Bush facts and points become "The same old crap". What I do not see from Pepper when confronted with Bush's BS is a reason to accept more of "The same old crap" from Bush. It is easy to paint Kerry as a Democrat with all the problems that go along with being a Democrat ... because he is soooooo typically a Democrat. I know that voting for Kerry equals a tax increase, more welfare spending, and a re-do on the abortion issue. Kerry would also mean a reversal of the unforgivable environmental changes from Bush, a net savings in American lives somewhere in the thousands as we pull out of Iraq, and a refocusing of our economy and our resources on issues INSIDE the US borders. Might even see a change in the foreign trade deficit

Read my sig
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV

Originally Posted by BoneCrusher

Kerry would also mean a reversal of the unforgivable environmental changes from Bush, a net savings in American lives somewhere in the thousands as we pull out of Iraq, and a refocusing of our economy and our resources on issues INSIDE the US borders. Might even see a change in the foreign trade deficit

Sounds like Kerry has all the answers!

Originally Posted by busyLivin

Sounds like Kerry has all the answers!

Busy you act as though these are not ideas you would support. You can not expect Bush to pull out of Iraq when his own people say that it will be 3 to 5 years before the area is stable enough. At 1000 dead Americans per year we are looking at 3000 dead at the least.

Originally Posted by BoneCrusher

Pepper loses his debate skills when confronted with Bush history. All Bush facts and points become "The same old crap". What I do not see from Pepper when confronted with Bush's BS is a reason to accept more of "The same old crap" from Bush. It is easy to paint Kerry as a Democrat with all the problems that go along with being a Democrat ... because he is soooooo typically a Democrat. I know that voting for Kerry equals a tax increase, more welfare spending, and a re-do on the abortion issue. Kerry would also mean a reversal of the unforgivable environmental changes from Bush, a net savings in American lives somewhere in the thousands as we pull out of Iraq, and a refocusing of our economy and our resources on issues INSIDE the US borders. Might even see a change in the foreign trade deficit

I say VERY little about Kerry and too be honest, I am not a huge Bush fan.

The stuff you guys post is just ridiculous. It really is. Redspy and Manic particularly just post anti-Bush rubbish. Not much you can do but call it rubbish.

Democrats don't piss me off, Kerry supports don't either. Constant Bush-bashing does piss me off especially when it is supported with so little real facts. Sure they would call them facts, but even they know it is crap.

Why to put up with Bush?

Economy is moving again
Taxes are lower
War is being won (and it is, not without costs, but it is)
He is fighting gay marriage
He is a man of principle.

You want me to post more of that? What's the point? You'll just answer with "the Cancer rated increased .02% under Bush" and "look the mess Mount St. Helens is making under Bush."

Oh and you'll get in another couple of digs at Christians too.

Originally Posted by BoneCrusher

Busy you act as though these are not ideas you would support. You can not expect Bush to pull out of Iraq when his own people say that it will be 3 to 5 years before the area is stable enough. At 1000 dead Americans per year we are looking at 3000 dead at the least.

I want a fast departure just like everyone else, but we should probably finish the job first. Pulling out without the job done & having Iraq fall back to nut jobs basically says all those men died for nothing.

I agree with Bush that Kerry is simply not realistic when it comes to leaving Iraq. As I have been saying.. Kerry talks like these difficult situations are so easy. His "full-proof" plan is bullshit. He's trying to get elected, I understand that.

Pepper do you post the environmental impact of the Bush role in government as rubish?

Originally Posted by Pepper

The stuff you guys post is just ridiculous. It really is. Redspy and Manic particularly just post anti-Bush rubbish. Not much you can do but call it rubbish.

Not just Bush, but his whole mob.

Originally Posted by BoneCrusher

Pepper do you post the environmental impact of the Bush role in government as rubish?

Anything anti-Bush is rubbish as far as he's concerned. They share the same perception of the world.

The news is grim, but the president is "optimistic". The intelligence is sobering, but he dimisses it as "pessimistic predictions". Constant bombings in Iraq and "we're making progress". All traits of those who govern by faith rather than hard facts.

As for Pepper not being a huge Bush fan, I don't think I've laughed so much since Dubya choked on a pretzel.

Damn, this sucks but I don't like Bush and I really don't see Kerry as the answer.
Where's Ross Perot.
Guys be nice, please I hate seeing mommy and daddy fight. It makes me sad

Originally Posted by redspy

Anything anti-Bush is rubbish as far as he's concerned. They share the same perception of the world.

THat just shows how little attention you pay.

Originally Posted by redspy

As for Pepper not being a huge Bush fan, I don't think I've laughed so much since Dubya choked on a pretzel.

As does this. It just shows that you don't even read before you post your rants. I am very critical of Bush. He has regulated like a Democrat. He has spent like a Democrat. At one point, I said publically that I was voting for Kerry (not here.)

I just find your posts ridiculous so I defend him.

Originally Posted by redspy

The news is grim, but the president is "optimistic". The intelligence is sobering, but he dimisses it as "pessimistic predictions". Constant bombings in Iraq and "we're making progress". All traits of those who govern by faith rather than hard facts.

How many wars have gone as well as this one? I hate the casualties too, but war is hell. People die. I'd like to here of a war where a country the size of Iraq was invaded with FEWER casualties. Maybe you can do it, but I doubt it.

Originally Posted by Pepper

How many wars have gone as well as this one? I hate the casualties too, but war is hell. People die. I'd like to here of a war where a country the size of Iraq was invaded with FEWER casualties. Maybe you can do it, but I doubt it.

Bosnia - 0 U.S Casualties, Led by Gen. Shinseki who was later ignored by The Bushites when he told them we didn't have enough troops to secure Iraq after conquering it.

I don't like the way Bush treats veterans. Calling McCain a possible psycho due to his time as a Vietnam POW, not condemning the Swift Boat Veterans, not heeding the warnings of decorated war heroe Gen. Eric Shinseki.

Originally Posted by BoneCrusher

Pepper do you post the environmental impact of the Bush role in government as rubish?

Yo Bone and Redspy,

Rather than say Bush is ruining the environment, which has not substance to it at all, describe what he / his administration has done that is different that what the Democrats would have done.

I will give you a concrete example.
Read Gore's book, he thought the automobile (combustion engine) was evil and ruining the environment. so he want to put a tax on gas to make it 5 dollars a gallon like it is in Europe. At this price, the number of miles driven would drastically go down since many people could not afford the gas.

Kerry is in the same camp. Is this what you want ?

Here in California (my stomping grounds), the land of fruits and nuts, the democrats control both houses. Thank goodness Ahnold is here to hold them off. Lets see if you support these ideas of theirs:
1) Free college for illegal aliens (but residents of Calif or other states pay)
2) Free medical coverage, food stamps, housing assistance and welfare for
any child of an illegal alien born here (plus the mom).
3) Remember our wildfires ? Fire dept tells you to clear stuff 100 to 300 ft
from your house. But you can't because many places it is illegal
because you can't disturb the ground without a permit. To get a permit
you need to have a study done on what lives there and what you
might do to it. So in a nutshell, the stuff there is more important
than the people or their lives.
4) The runoff from our freeways has oil in it. The environmentalists want
us to go back and replumb all of the sewers to catch this water and
treat it so it will not go in the ocean.
5) We add special additives into our gas that make it cost more but
supposedly burn cleaner. (89 octane now at 233/gal)
Now it is in our water supply.
What is worse, some smog or polluted water ?
6) they have proposed a surtax if you drive too much (over 10,000 miles)
8) No power plants built in the last 25 years due to environment concerns
So we have the highest cost of electricity (.20 per Kwh)
9) California outlawed combustion engines back in the 1980's effective in 93.
They thought they would pioneer the way to new cars. When 93 came
and they found that they no cars could be sold here, there rescinded
the law.
10) Drivers licenses for all illegals, with no restrictions.
How do you combat terrorists in our country when they can get a
drivers license that easy ? The DL gets you into everything and planes.
11) Benefits for all Gay partners
12) No limits on frivilous law suits. (here are a few for you)
These should be laughed out of court.
Remember the lady who sued Mcdonalds for spilling hot coffee
where the sun don't shine, and won.
How about people who sue ski resorts because they get sick at high
altitude sick
How about someone who sues a gynm because they break a toe by
dropping a weight on there toe.
How about the lady who sued the dept store for falling over some kid
and breaking her arm. It was her own kid.

All of these just increase the cost of doing business. And this is just passed on to the customer. Thats right, you and me.

So I do not think it is okay. What about you

Originally Posted by maniclion

Bosnia - 0 U.S Casualties, Led by Gen. Shinseki who was later ignored by The Bushites when he told them we didn't have enough troops to secure Iraq after conquering it.

Oh, you mean when Clinton turned out troops over to foreign control !
When we bombed them into the stoneage. There was not big hatred
for the US over there.

Do you know the status over their now ?

The muslims are moving back in and killing Christians, but this is okay.
The UN has high tailed it out of there because they can not keep
control of the situation. Do you hear about it in the news ? No
why not, because you can't bash the US there. Were not in control.

Why was that supposedly a just war and this is not ?
Because that was for humanitarian reasons ?
Kerry wants to go to Africa for humanitarian reasons too ?

Why would you go help people for that reason and not when someone is a threat to your country, or to world peace in genaral ?

If Sadam had a nuke, do you think he would give it to Al Qaeda to bring over here? This is not a trick question !

How could Bush get world opinion behind him in Iraq, when Germany and France were illegally selling stuff to Iraq ? They did not want us to go in there and find they were illegally selling billions of dollars of stuff to Iraq against he embargo. And they did not want to lose the sales either.
Sales = jobs and profits.

The UN is as corrupt as hell too. The UN was skimming some of the oil for food money and paying off Koffi Annan and his family.

Originally Posted by maniclion

I don't like the way Bush treats veterans. Calling McCain a possible psycho due to his time as a Vietnam POW, not condemning the Swift Boat Veterans, not heeding the warnings of decorated war heroe Gen. Eric Shinseki.

I suppose you preferred the respect Clinton gave to the military ? None !
He despised the military.

I do not know where the psycho reference is from, but McCain had only good things to say about Bush at the convention.

Why would Bush condemn the swift boat vets ?
For one, they are a 527 group and it is illegal for him to comment on them.
This is part of the McCain campaign finance reform bill. He can not say anything for or against them.

Two, they were eye witnesses to what happened over there, and they say the Kerry is changing history to make him look good. They did not hear Kerrys side until his memos were released not long ago. I respect Kerry for fighting for our country, I despise him for then fighting against our country and giving encouragement and comfort to the enemy, but then I lose all respect when he tries to change the story to make himseld look good.