Thread: "Our" war on terrorism By Howard Zinn

Originally Posted by maniclion

Unless we reexamine our policies--our quartering of soldiers in a hundred countries (the quartering of foreign soldiers, remember, was one of the grievances of the American revolutionaries), our support of the occupation of Palestinian lands, our insistence on controlling the oil of the Middle East--we will always live in fear. If we were to announce that we will reconsider those policies, and began to change them, we might start to dry up the huge reservoir of hatred where terrorists are hatched.[/font]

I'm being serious when I ask for some help explaining this little passage. Is he suggesting we withdraw ALL of our troops from ALL foreign lands and adopt a policy of isolationism? Now THAT is scary. Also, is he suggesting we take ZERO action to protect the middle east oil reserves from countries that would sieze them and hold them/us hostage? More scaryness. Look, I'm not in favor of being dependant on middle eastern oil, but I accept the fact that we are and also accept the fact that some blood may get spilled to protect it. Hell, I accepted the fact enough that I went there myself a few dozen times before, during and after BOTH Gulf Wars. I'm serious here. I see these idiots waving their "No war for oil" signs and just want to puke. If that oil fell into the wrong hands our entire civilization would collaps. Our economy revolves around oil; no oil, no economy. It's as simple as that. Until we discover a better way to fuel our lives we need to accept the fact that we ARE going to go to war for oil. My knock on the Pres is he doesn't have the balls to come right out and say it. Maybe if.............WHEN he gets re-elected, and has nothing to lose, he'll utter those beautiful words.

Originally Posted by ALBOB

I'm being serious when I ask for some help explaining this little passage. Is he suggesting we withdraw -

He is suggesting that if we have troops in other countries it's as a team with the majority of the world ie UN or NATO so that we can't be the sole aim of hatred or contempt.

As for oil, yeah it runs everything, but not enough is being done to ween us from it. Instead of blowing billions fighting for the last drop we could start researching new alternatives while implementing existing ones to bring the demand for oil down which would lead to lower prices and less fighting, but of course once we turn to solar, etc we'll have to start fighting over the best silicon deposits.

Yeah...................................
What Albob said!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally Posted by maniclion

As for oil, yeah it runs everything, but not enough is being done to ween us from it. Instead of blowing billions fighting for the last drop we could start researching new alternatives while implementing existing ones to bring the demand for oil down which would lead to lower prices and less fighting, but of course once we turn to solar, etc we'll have to start fighting over the best silicon deposits.

But we can't abandon the oil and hope we find new resources. We have to protect it. Might as well face the fact that we always will be. No matter who is in office.

I wonder how much oil in the entire world is left in terms of years? ...

Originally Posted by maniclion

As for oil, yeah it runs everything, but not enough is being done to ween us from it. Instead of blowing billions fighting for the last drop we could start researching new alternatives while implementing existing ones to bring the demand for oil down which would lead to lower prices and less fighting, but of course once we turn to solar, etc we'll have to start fighting over the best silicon deposits.

I actually AGEE with both of your points. (We should make today a holiday. )

BUT...........yeah, there's always a "but", isn't there? We're stationed in foreign counties because we've accepted the role of The World's Police. (No, I do NOT like that, but I can't do anything about it.) Anyway, it's an accepted fact that we patrol most of the world trying to keep the peace. If any other country, government, political body wants to take over, go for it. It ain't gonna be the U.N. It ain't gonna be NATO. It's US. Period. Yeah, the U.N. makes a whole lot of noise about how this and that SHOULD be done, but when push comes to shove they always come running to us to make things right. And it's because of that WE'RE viewed as the bad guys. So, what I see we're left with is two evils; turn over the protection of the planet to the U.N. (Whether they want to accept that role or not.) or accept the fact that not everyone on the planet is going to love us. I chose #2.

Solar energy? Wow, what a concept. Free. Renewable. Clean. What will they think of next?

Whoever the next President will be, it is up to the American people to demand that he begin a bold reconsideration of the role our country should play in the world.

He say's it best right there. If we want change then we should demand it. We should reform the UN and NATO so that the burden of world peace rests there. We should demand better looking hybrid and Hydrogen vehicles, cause the ones they are pushing now look like shit. Instead of just excepting it as is we can push it to change, not overnight but through constant force work will get done. Everyone wants progress, not everyone tries to do anything to achieve it.


Two Hands Lyrics
Artist:Ben Harper

Now I can change the world
With my own two hands
Make it a better place
With my own two hands
Make it a kinder place

With my own two hands
With my own, with my own two hands
With my own, with my own two hands

Now I could make peace on earth
With my own two hands
And I could clean up the earth
With my own two hands
And I can reach out to you

With my own two hands
With my own, with my own two hands
With my own, with my own two hands

I'm gonna make it a brighter place
With my own two hands
I'm gonna make it a safer place
With my own two hands
I'm gonna help the human race

With my own two hands
With my own, with my own two hands
With my own, with my own two hands

Now I could hold you
With my own two hands
And I can comfort you
With my own two hands

But you got to, got to use
Use your own two hands
Use your own, use your own two hands
Use your own, use your own two hands
Oh, you got to use your own two hands

With our own, with our own two hands
With our own, with our own two hands
With our own, with our own two hands

Originally Posted by myCATpowerlifts

I wonder how much oil in the entire world is left in terms of years? ...

once it is gone maybe we will have some peace, or at least the majority of our interests in the middle east will be over.

Originally Posted by maniclion

Whoever the next President will be, it is up to the American people to demand that he begin a bold reconsideration of the role our country should play in the world.

He say's it best right there. If we want change then we should demand it. We should reform the UN and NATO so that the burden of world peace rests there. We should demand better looking hybrid and Hydrogen vehicles, cause the ones they are pushing now look like shit. Instead of just excepting it as is we can push it to change, not overnight but through constant force work will get done. Everyone wants progress, not everyone tries to do anything to achieve it.

OH CRAP! Not only are you and I agreeing twice on the same day, we're agreeing twice in THE SAME FREAKING THREAD!!!

Originally Posted by Robert DiMaggio

once it is gone maybe we will have some peace, or at least the majority of our interests in the middle east will be over.

No, like I said above when we go to solar we'll be fighting over silicon deposits and last I looked the Middle East was covered with sand of which the main ingredient is silicon. It's always about fighting over resources, water, good farming land, slave labor vs. industrial machines (Civil War)

Originally Posted by maniclion

No, like I said above when we go to solar we'll be fighting over silicon deposits and last I looked the Middle East was covered with sand of which the main ingredient is silicon. It's always about fighting over resources, water, good farming land, slave labor vs. industrial machines (Civil War)

Liquefied Natural Gas (LNG)

Originally Posted by Robert DiMaggio

Liquefied Natural Gas (LNG)

Hell, just give me a good batch of chili and I can give you all the LNG you want. You gotta seperate the liquid from the natural gas though.