Italian44

A few VERY interesting articles posted today on politics...undecided voters might want to read these...

http://www.electoral-vote.com/

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,136355,00.html

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/...oll/index.html

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=190984

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Vote2...=183133&page=1

PASS IT ON...

Down with Bush

Du

Your posts never change....

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largepkg

Why do I even open up his threads...

Du

I hope hejust realizes hes not influencing anyone here, hes wasting his time. I appreciate his enthusiasm for liberals, its better than no enthusiasm at all..... but hes wasting his time here.

I suggest going to the forums here, italian44. You can convince people here who are closer to your liberal way of thinking. http://www.cpusa.org/

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Luke9583

hey DU,

Here's a great article. Do you really wanna vote for somebody that eats their own poop?

http://The.President.of.the.United.S...s/arrested.php

"If you're not part of the solution, you're the precipitate."

Du

Oh wow, thats some serious stuff huh.

Just make sure Italian44 realizes that its not real, he seems like the type to pass that on as truth.

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Luke9583

I wont man. Glad you have a sense of humor

"If you're not part of the solution, you're the precipitate."

OceanDude

Yeah - it's becoming pretty obvious that most here have their own formed opinions and are extremely unlikly to change them based on anyone's posting info etc. We all should just make a pledge to not get on religious, political or sexual orientation debates. Hmmmm, well shoot what the heck woould we talk about then?

How bout dem Red Sox and Cardinals!?
OD

"Doc, If I had known I was going to live this long I would have taken better care of myself..."

Est unusquisque faber ipsae suae fortunae.

We Americans scoff at the likes of African witch doctors yet spend 100's of millions of dollars on fake reducing systems.

The only regular exercise he gets is stretching the truth.

His intellect is not replenished, he is only an animal, only sensible in the duller parts...

BoneCrusher

I can see it now ...

OMG you gotta check this out .... WOW!!!

http://The.President.of.the.United....es/arrested.php

PASS IT ON ...

maniclion

Why should undecided voters look at these? Especially the electoral vote one, like seeing that Kerry is higher will make them want to jump on the bandwagon or help poor little ole Bush get ahead, I no comprende.

"We are like tenant farmers chopping down the fence around our house for fuel when we should be using Natures inexhaustible sources of energy — sun, wind and tide. ... I'd put my money on the sun and solar energy. What a source of power! I hope we don't have to wait until oil and coal run out before we tackle that."
Thomas Edison: In conversation with Henry Ford and Harvey Firestone

OceanDude

Uhm... i just got a thread update message for this thread from IM and it got deleted by my security scanner. Manic you seem to be the culprit...

BTW - check out how the Europeans voted - they favor Bush hands down over kerry (46% to 31%) http://bestukforums.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=2012



OD

"Doc, If I had known I was going to live this long I would have taken better care of myself..."

Est unusquisque faber ipsae suae fortunae.

We Americans scoff at the likes of African witch doctors yet spend 100's of millions of dollars on fake reducing systems.

The only regular exercise he gets is stretching the truth.

His intellect is not replenished, he is only an animal, only sensible in the duller parts...

maniclion

There's more to Europe than the UK.

"We are like tenant farmers chopping down the fence around our house for fuel when we should be using Natures inexhaustible sources of energy — sun, wind and tide. ... I'd put my money on the sun and solar energy. What a source of power! I hope we don't have to wait until oil and coal run out before we tackle that."
Thomas Edison: In conversation with Henry Ford and Harvey Firestone

Du

Yea, like the french.

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OceanDude

only the relevant people voted...
OD

"Doc, If I had known I was going to live this long I would have taken better care of myself..."

Est unusquisque faber ipsae suae fortunae.

We Americans scoff at the likes of African witch doctors yet spend 100's of millions of dollars on fake reducing systems.

The only regular exercise he gets is stretching the truth.

His intellect is not replenished, he is only an animal, only sensible in the duller parts...

maniclion

Oh, so Poland's not relevant

"We are like tenant farmers chopping down the fence around our house for fuel when we should be using Natures inexhaustible sources of energy — sun, wind and tide. ... I'd put my money on the sun and solar energy. What a source of power! I hope we don't have to wait until oil and coal run out before we tackle that."
Thomas Edison: In conversation with Henry Ford and Harvey Firestone

OceanDude

Uhm, good point. Forgot about them. The Poles when going to the polls are still having a tough time figuring out which hole to punch to vote "American". I'd count on them voting for Bush - its closer in the letter "A" for "American" than "K" and its only 4 letters long compared to Kerry's 5 and no one outside of Massachusetts really knows who the hell Kerry is since he never seems to have done anything relevant himself in the 20 some years he has been a professional politician. Yup, the Poles are definitely gonna be for Bush.

OD

"Doc, If I had known I was going to live this long I would have taken better care of myself..."

Est unusquisque faber ipsae suae fortunae.

We Americans scoff at the likes of African witch doctors yet spend 100's of millions of dollars on fake reducing systems.

The only regular exercise he gets is stretching the truth.

His intellect is not replenished, he is only an animal, only sensible in the duller parts...

Du

What do you think of Azerbaijan? Who will they vote for?

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redspy

Here's the real deal:-

BRITAIN, ALAN TRAVIS The Guardian

There is growing hostility towards the US among British voters, fuelled by a strong personal antipathy towards President George Bush. It is so strong that the British would back the Democrat challenger John Kerry against Bush by a margin of more than two to one if they had a vote in next month's presidential election.

The British are quite clear they still like Americans as a people - only 21 per cent say they don't like them - but only one in four British voters says they have a favourable opinion of the American President.
The survey shows a nation still split down the middle over the decision to invade Iraq, but with the balance tilting 46 per cent to 40 per cent towards an anti-war position. There are also mixed views on whether the continuing war in Iraq is contributing to the global fight against terrorism.

The British public has never been as Atlanticist as its politicians but this poll reveals the hostility has grown sharply since September 11, particularly among the young. About 45 per cent say their view of the US has deteriorated and only 15 per cent say it has improved.

In fact, a majority of British voters now disagrees with the idea that American democracy remains a model for other nations.

A more recent development is the growth in those who say they agree with the statement that "American culture threatens our own culture".

http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/sh...ad.php?t=37904 (International Opinion on Bush)

OceanDude

Well, rather than get all bogged down in which media source to use for gathering favorable opinions for either candidate let's not forget that none of these other countries have a real vote anyway (nor should they). It wa a fun little tangential journey but lets come back to home for a moment. Clearly you ar enot going to change my opinion and I am not going to change yours so debate is fairly pointless. But, for entertainment effect consider the following:
http://noleftturns.ashbrook.org/comment.asp?blogID=5060
It looks Like many liberals favor Bush over Kerry as do women voters...
================================================== ====
New CBS Poll--Bush 50%, Kerry 41%
CBS is reporting that the president has widened his lead over Kerry since its last poll, which was taken immediately after the Republican National Convention. Bush now enjoys a nine-point lead over the challenger.

The breakdown of voters is particularly interesting. It seems that a full 20 percent of self-described liberals are supporting Bush, as are 39 percent of union members. Women favor Bush over Kerry by 49 to 42 percent, and independents favor the president by roughly the same margin.

Democrats’ enthusiasm for their candidate continues to fade. Only 40 percent claim that they "strongly favor" Kerry, down from 54 percent in July. By contrast, 63 percent of Republicans "strongly favor" Bush--this, too, however, is down from July, when 70 percent claimed to do so.

Terrorism continues to be the president’s strong suit. Half of those surveyed expressed "a lot" of confidence in his ability to protect the country from another terror attack, compared to only 26 percent for Kerry. 54 percent continue to believe that the Iraq war was the "right thing" to do, up from 49% in August. The same percentage believe that U.S. forces should remain in Iraq "as long as it takes" to create a stable environment there.

What is perhaps most striking is overall voter assessments of the candidates. Kerry has only a 31 percent favorable rating, compared to 47 percent for Bush. The unfavorables are closer--Kerry 42 percent, Bush 38. But a solid majority (60 percent) are uneasy about how the Democrat would handle an international crisis, and only 30 percent think that Kerry says what he believes (compared to 55 percent for Bush). Fifty-seven percent say they have no clear picture of what the Senator intends to do if elected president, while only 44 percent say the same of the president.

Post by John Moser | Link to this Entry | 9/18/2004 10:50 AM

OD

"Doc, If I had known I was going to live this long I would have taken better care of myself..."

Est unusquisque faber ipsae suae fortunae.

We Americans scoff at the likes of African witch doctors yet spend 100's of millions of dollars on fake reducing systems.

The only regular exercise he gets is stretching the truth.

His intellect is not replenished, he is only an animal, only sensible in the duller parts...

redspy

Agreed. That's probably the truest paragragh you've ever written on IM.

Kerry is a tool, no doubt about it. However, given the choice between four more years of revolutionary Neoconservative mismanagement most true liberals are obviously backing Kerry.

For your entertainment here's an article from U.S News & World Report on why many Conservatives feel the Neocons have hijacked their party and screwed things up:- http://www.usnews.com/usnews/issue/0.../25neocons.htm

OceanDude

I have not precisely formed my own opinions and political identity in a structured way at the level beyond a generic "Republican". In fact, I would tend toward libertarianism if it were not for that fact that that philosophy is all over the board and has no consistent platform since its a collection of mavericks and misfits that were left disenfranchised from the other predominant parties. I am currently more inclined to go with my instincts. Right now I see severe danger in the world coming out of the hatred and lunacy being manifest in the slums of the middle east and from the urging of clerics preaching contempt in the "holy places" there. In this sense I am probably more inclined to be a neocon myself. Since I think it merciful as well as expedient to preempt this at its source as quickly as is humanly possible to save the world from suffering 20-30years of a slow war of attrition that we will likely lose for lack of patience and the will to sacrifice our comforts for longer than one run at any presidential administration. We need to stop beating around the bush and just face the fact that the world needs a strong leader and a dominant culture. That's really what this is all about in Iraq. We as a country just happen to be schizophrenic about it and are not comfortable with the role of world leader or being benevolent imperialists. We come from a long line of maverick colonists ourselves. It's in our blood to dislike abusers of power but it's also in our blood to hate repressive regimes and social systems that are not fair and seek to dominate through intimidation and intolerance.

I'd rather we just face our enemies now before they all have nukes and take them all out swiftly one by one: Iran, N. Korea, Syria, and probably even Saudi Arabia. It's time to make the distinction between who is for us, who is against us and who is indifferent to us and seek to play both sides while the lethality is still mostly conventional. In a few short years it will be suitcase nukes and suicide bombers (for delivery systems) in major cities going off on a routine basis if we do not act now. To deny that possibility is to ignore the reality of the intolerance, hatred and contempt they have for our culture. It use to be time was on our side and we could educate the ignorant and generationally colonize our ideals into their own societal fabric. Time is no longer on our side and this is a fight to the death and a race for the bomb. Politics aside - we don't have time for the buffoonery of politics and need to be decisive and be thinking very clearly about survival and what part of our culture and society we are willing to sacrifice to keep some of our lifestyle still in tact. Yes, it's time for triage since the lethal shots are already in motion and we can't stop them all.

OD

"Doc, If I had known I was going to live this long I would have taken better care of myself..."

Est unusquisque faber ipsae suae fortunae.

We Americans scoff at the likes of African witch doctors yet spend 100's of millions of dollars on fake reducing systems.

The only regular exercise he gets is stretching the truth.

His intellect is not replenished, he is only an animal, only sensible in the duller parts...

busyLivin

hey slick, you shot yourself in the foot bringin up www.electoral-vote.com

take a look.. strong kerry is down to 63. and for manic.. I'm sure you'll be happy to see this there:

Even Illinois & CA are now listed as weak Kerry. I don't think they'll go to Bush, but Kerry's numbers are falling everywhere, just as I thought they would.

OMG.. you gotta check it out!

redspy

OD

I share you concerns about what's happening in the middle east and the world. Hatred of the US is at an all time high and terrorism is on the rise. The current administration's method to address this is to essentially say that "the best defense is a strong offense". This means they hope to solve these problems with military force and no much else. To really solve a problem you need to understand the root causes, not just attack the symptoms. Bush's simple explanation is that "They hate us for our freedom". This isn't true, they hate us because of hypocrisy, e.g. talk of peace and democracy in Iraq while ignoring the Israeli-Palestine situation which most countries in the Middle East care about passionately. They hate the US and many European countries for decades of imperialism and self-interest. They also hate a lot of our core values.

I don't pretend I have the answers but it's a battle that needs a balance of understanding, self analysis, co-operation and if necessary good old fashioned firepower. If we rely on one action exclusively we'll fail.