Controlling guns??

**dg806** · 10-27-2004, 12:47 PM

When the gun control crowd goes on its tirade they site the countries that don’t allow its citizens to own guns and how the crime rate in those countries are lower than ours.

Funny thing is they always leave out Switzerland, where
ex-military people are required to keep a gun. Switzerland’s crime rate is extremely low, despite the massive amount of guns there.

The real reason that the crime rate is so low is that the Swiss just don’t put up with crime. They simply will not tolerate it. We could learn a lesson from them.

For some reason this nation has been led down the primrose path of simplistic thinking when it comes to placing blame. Cigarettes cause cancer, blame the tobacco company, not the smoker.

Now I know cigarettes are killers and goodness knows I’m not taking up for the tobacco companies, but let’s face it, who is to blame? The people who make the cigarette or the person who smokes it?

If you drink a jug of battery acid do you sue the manufacturer?
After all, the warning is right on the package. Well the warning
about the harm cigarettes can do to you is right on the package too.

If you shut down every tobacco company in America people would still find a way to smoke. There would be a thriving black market.

The same thing is true of guns.

Let’s be sensible. Who is causing all the trouble with guns now?
Criminals of course, the majority of which have been in prison, many of them on some parole program or other and they are forbidden by law to own or possess a gun. So what is one more gun law going to mean to them? They’re breaking the law already by just having a gun, much less using one.

Do you know where to buy an Uzi submachine gun? You probably don’t and I don’t either. But odds are that your neighborhood drug pusher does.(Although we have one at my PD)

All the laws in the world can’t bend a person bent on violence
from carrying it out. They’ll use a knife or a brickbat if they have too.

If we truly want to stop the violence in America we have to get the violent people off the street and keep them off.

Too many plea bargains, too many repeat offenders, too much protecting the rights of violent criminals while ignoring the rights of their innocent victims.

Lock up the criminals, not the guns.

**Prince** · 10-27-2004, 12:49 PM

my stand on gun control is very simple, the only type of guns that should be allowed by citizens (as in non-law enforcment people) is hunting rifles, period.

redspy · 10-27-2004, 12:52 PM

How many political posts are you planning on today DG? All that copying and pasting must be tiring.

**dg806** · 10-27-2004, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert DiMaggio

my stand on gun control is very simple, the only type of guns that should be allowed by citizens (as in non-law enforcment people) is hunting rifles, period.

I never figured you as a gun control person

MaxMirkin · 10-27-2004, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert DiMaggio

my stand on gun control is very simple, the only type of guns that should be allowed by citizens (as in non-law enforcment people) is hunting rifles, period.

What about the Anti-Aircraft Missile Launchers? How is one supposed to hunt those tasty bald eagles without them?

**Prince** · 10-27-2004, 01:00 PM

If I ever witnessed anyone shooting an eagle or a hawk I would punch them in the face.

**Prince** · 10-27-2004, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dg806

I never figured you as a gun control person

in your profession I would think you would be in favor of it.

MaxMirkin · 10-27-2004, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert DiMaggio

If I ever witnessed anyone shooting an eagle or a hawk I would punch them in the face.

Isn't it enough that they're being shot at? You are a truly cruel man.

**dg806** · 10-27-2004, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert DiMaggio

in your profession I would think you would be in favor of it.

Why would I be? The criminals that have them have them illegally. Gun control is not going to stop them from using them or getting them. It only stops law abiding people like me.

redspy · 10-27-2004, 01:09 PM

Let's face it, it's too late to bring about gun control. If you ban weapons a lot law abiding citizens would surrender their guns while criminals run around armed to the teeth. If you're not a criminal or mentally ill and are responsible I see no reason why you shouldn't be allowed to own firearms.
Of course there should be strict enforcement of existing gun laws....

**I Are Baboon** · 10-27-2004, 01:16 PM

I want a gun. Seems like it's be fun to own one. My father in law (retired cop) would be happy to teach me how to shoot.

**dg806** · 10-27-2004, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Are Baboon

I want a gun. Seems like it's be fun to own one. My father in law (retired cop) would be happy to teach me how to shoot.

LOL, you could have had a couple for what you probably paid for that snow thrower!

**Prince** · 10-27-2004, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dg806

Why would I be? The criminals that have them have them illegally. Gun control is not going to stop them from using them or getting them. It only stops law abiding people like me.

yeah, but cops continue to fight drugs, what is the point of that?

**Dale Mabry** · 10-27-2004, 01:30 PM

Guns don't need to be controlled, people do.

ALBOB · 10-27-2004, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redspy

Of course there should be strict enforcement of existing gun laws....

And THAT is a major point of all the pro-gun groups in the country. The laws are already on the books, they just aren't being enforced.

**dg806** · 10-27-2004, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert DiMaggio

yeah, but cops continue to fight drugs, what is the point of that?

The drugs are outlawed! Yet they get them and deal them. If you outlaw guns, the same thing applies. Only the law abiding will not have them, then crime can really run rampant.

milliman · 10-27-2004, 02:04 PM

gun control

Media bias or no media bias. You tell me.

About 8 years ago Florida passed a bill that allowed all people the right to carry a concealed weapon.

Within the next 6 months, the media reported (front page news) that crime had increased by something like 100% on foreigners driving rented cars coming out of airports. This was touted as being a direct result of the gun law change.

What they did not tell you (the sin of ommission) is that overall crime rate had decreased by 35% - 40%.

Now lets see what really happened and why. Overall crime had decreased significantly since crooks never knew who had a gun in their car or on under their belt. They would not want to rob someone who could defend themselves. But crime on people leaving airports in rented cars had increased because these people had a rental car (no guns in there) and they had just come thru airport metal detectors (nu guns on planes).

So in a nutshell, the media hates guns and is going to tout anything that gives the impression that gun ownership is bad. So they only pick out one statistic that looks bad and ignore the overall statistics.

Yellow journalism at its best trying to shape public opinion.

LAM · 10-27-2004, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert DiMaggio

my stand on gun control is very simple, the only type of guns that should be allowed by citizens (as in non-law enforcment people) is hunting rifles, period.

what about for home protection ? rifles are not effective for this. so now only the bad guys have hand guns...how is that going to lower the violent crime rate ?

**I Are Baboon** · 10-27-2004, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dg806

LOL, you could have had a couple for what you probably paid for that snow thrower!

Dammit, it is a snow BLOWER. A snow thrower costs half of what I spent.

**Prince** · 10-27-2004, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LAM

what about for home protection ? rifles are not effective for this. so now only the bad guys have hand guns...how is that going to lower the violent crime rate ?

I would love to hear that stats on when a gun is successfully used for home protection, probably hardly ever.

also when you take into account the number of accidents that happen with pistols at home due to domestic violence and children, is it really worth it?

milliman · 10-27-2004, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert DiMaggio

I would love to hear that stats on when a gun is successfully used for home protection, probably hardly ever.

also when you take into account the number of accidents that happen with pistols at home due to domestic violence and children, is it really worth it?

Robert,

Deaths are easier to track since they always need to be reported. Self defense does not need to be reported, but here is a link to some newspaper articles that were published.

https://www.keepandbeararms.com/info...e.asp?CatID=43

Here is an summary of so called "accidental deaths" that is put out by the NRA. It also contains the political distortions that spin miesters use. They include all kids under 21 as kids, including gang members.

I included the link for your reference. But NRA numbers are 1.2 accidental deaths every 4 days.

Also, if you keep in mind the dramatic decrease in crime in Flordia (one of many), you can see that guns do indeed deter crime, even if not used.

Firearm accidents among "children": Handgun Control (now Brady Campaign) president, Michael Barnes, and longtime anti-gun senator Ted Kennedy (D-Mass.) have teamed up to allege that 12 children die from gun accidents every day. President Bill Clinton campaigned for so-called "triggerlock" and "smart" gun laws, claiming that 13 children are killed with guns every day. Hillary Clinton said, "Every day in America we lose 13 precious children to gun-related violence." The HELP Network recently put the figure at "an average of 9 children" daily. Other "gun control" advocates have varyingly claimed 5,000 per year, 14 per day, or one every 90 seconds. In fact, on average there are 1.2 such deaths among children per day, including one accidental death every four days. The phony figures are produced by adding the relatively small number of firearm-related deaths among children to the much larger number of deaths among juveniles and young adults under the age of 20, and dishonestly calling the total "children." Sometimes, anti-gunners have counted anyone under the age of 24 as a "child" to get an even higher number. (For details, see www.nraila.org, click "research," "firearm safety," "Not 12 Per Day.")

http://www.nraila.org//issues/factsh...ad.aspx?id=120

milliman · 10-27-2004, 03:37 PM

The other issue with gun control is that when the citizens have no guns, the government is free to do whatever they want. The people have no ability to fight back. Our founding fathers came from Europe and kings and did not want to repeat that situation.

Hitler disarmed his people too. (and a list of other dictators of which I do not have handy now)
Mexico has gun control there. Do you feel safer there ?

BoneCrusher · 10-27-2004, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milliman

gun control

Media bias or no media bias. You tell me.

About 8 years ago Florida passed a bill that allowed all people the right to carry a concealed weapon.

Within the next 6 months, the media reported (front page news) that crime had increased by something like 100% on foreigners driving rented cars coming out of airports. This was touted as being a direct result of the gun law change.

What they did not tell you (the sin of ommission) is that overall crime rate had decreased by 35% - 40%.

Now lets see what really happened and why. Overall crime had decreased significantly since crooks never knew who had a gun in their car or on under their belt. They would not want to rob someone who could defend themselves. But crime on people leaving airports in rented cars had increased because these people had a rental car (no guns in there) and they had just come thru airport metal detectors (nu guns on planes).

So in a nutshell, the media hates guns and is going to tout anything that gives the impression that gun ownership is bad. So they only pick out one statistic that looks bad and ignore the overall statistics.

Yellow journalism at its best trying to shape public opinion.

Best post to date there Mill! And I will personally shoot anyone who dares to argue that ... with Max's rocket launcher (you will loan that to me right Max?)

Var · 10-27-2004, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert DiMaggio

my stand on gun control is very simple, the only type of guns that should be allowed by citizens (as in non-law enforcment people) is hunting rifles, period.

This definitely seems out of character for you.

I'm with the Libertarians when it comes to gun control. Gun bans only effect people who abide by laws...NOT CRIMINALS. End of story.

Var · 10-27-2004, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert DiMaggio

also when you take into account the number of accidents that happen with pistols at home due to domestic violence and children, is it really worth it?

Yup...its worth it

10-27-2004, 12:47 PM	#1
dg806 Guardian of The Homeland Super Moderator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Charlotte NC Posts: 17,419	Controlling guns?? When the gun control crowd goes on its tirade they site the countries that don’t allow its citizens to own guns and how the crime rate in those countries are lower than ours. Funny thing is they always leave out Switzerland, where ex-military people are required to keep a gun. Switzerland’s crime rate is extremely low, despite the massive amount of guns there. The real reason that the crime rate is so low is that the Swiss just don’t put up with crime. They simply will not tolerate it. We could learn a lesson from them. For some reason this nation has been led down the primrose path of simplistic thinking when it comes to placing blame. Cigarettes cause cancer, blame the tobacco company, not the smoker. Now I know cigarettes are killers and goodness knows I’m not taking up for the tobacco companies, but let’s face it, who is to blame? The people who make the cigarette or the person who smokes it? If you drink a jug of battery acid do you sue the manufacturer? After all, the warning is right on the package. Well the warning about the harm cigarettes can do to you is right on the package too. If you shut down every tobacco company in America people would still find a way to smoke. There would be a thriving black market. The same thing is true of guns. Let’s be sensible. Who is causing all the trouble with guns now? Criminals of course, the majority of which have been in prison, many of them on some parole program or other and they are forbidden by law to own or possess a gun. So what is one more gun law going to mean to them? They’re breaking the law already by just having a gun, much less using one. Do you know where to buy an Uzi submachine gun? You probably don’t and I don’t either. But odds are that your neighborhood drug pusher does.(Although we have one at my PD) All the laws in the world can’t bend a person bent on violence from carrying it out. They’ll use a knife or a brickbat if they have too. If we truly want to stop the violence in America we have to get the violent people off the street and keep them off. Too many plea bargains, too many repeat offenders, too much protecting the rights of violent criminals while ignoring the rights of their innocent victims. Lock up the criminals, not the guns.
	www.sbmuscle.com

10-27-2004, 12:49 PM	#2
Prince the one & only Administrator Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Colorado Posts: 33,932 Blog Entries: 25 Photos: 320	my stand on gun control is very simple, the only type of guns that should be allowed by citizens (as in non-law enforcment people) is hunting rifles, period.
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10-27-2004, 12:52 PM	#3
redspy Member Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 3,040	How many political posts are you planning on today DG? All that copying and pasting must be tiring.
redspy Member Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 3,040

10-27-2004, 01:00 PM	#6
Prince the one & only Administrator Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Colorado Posts: 33,932 Blog Entries: 25 Photos: 320	If I ever witnessed anyone shooting an eagle or a hawk I would punch them in the face.
	SBMuscle.com - Discount Supplement Superstore AlltheWhey.com - Bulk Protein Powders CEM Products - Research Chemicals & Supplements MusclePharm - Complete Nutritional Arsenal BigBackGrips - If you lift weights you've got to try these grips! HumaneVoLabs - Foaming Transdermal Delivery System. Creatine Ethyl Ester HCL (CEE) On Sale $17.49 per bottle!

10-27-2004, 01:09 PM	#10
redspy Member Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 3,040	Let's face it, it's too late to bring about gun control. If you ban weapons a lot law abiding citizens would surrender their guns while criminals run around armed to the teeth. If you're not a criminal or mentally ill and are responsible I see no reason why you shouldn't be allowed to own firearms. Of course there should be strict enforcement of existing gun laws.... Last edited by redspy : 10-27-2004 at 02:21 PM.
redspy Member Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 3,040

10-27-2004, 01:16 PM	#11
I Are Baboon pedal pedal pedal Moderator Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Beerville Posts: 10,990 Photos: 10	I want a gun. Seems like it's be fun to own one. My father in law (retired cop) would be happy to teach me how to shoot.

10-27-2004, 01:30 PM	#14
Dale Mabry Moderator Moderator Join Date: May 2003 Location: Elsewhere Posts: 13,873 Photos: 10	Guns don't need to be controlled, people do.
	If sense were common, everyone would have it. 4/2007-Current 75th Ranked most popular image 1 spot behind Prince's bulge...

10-27-2004, 02:04 PM	#17
milliman Pull up master Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: San Diego, Calif Posts: 386	gun control Media bias or no media bias. You tell me. About 8 years ago Florida passed a bill that allowed all people the right to carry a concealed weapon. Within the next 6 months, the media reported (front page news) that crime had increased by something like 100% on foreigners driving rented cars coming out of airports. This was touted as being a direct result of the gun law change. What they did not tell you (the sin of ommission) is that overall crime rate had decreased by 35% - 40%. Now lets see what really happened and why. Overall crime had decreased significantly since crooks never knew who had a gun in their car or on under their belt. They would not want to rob someone who could defend themselves. But crime on people leaving airports in rented cars had increased because these people had a rental car (no guns in there) and they had just come thru airport metal detectors (nu guns on planes). So in a nutshell, the media hates guns and is going to tout anything that gives the impression that gun ownership is bad. So they only pick out one statistic that looks bad and ignore the overall statistics. Yellow journalism at its best trying to shape public opinion.
	Quitters never win, and winners never quit ! ! ! Who says big guys can't do pull ups ? Wide grip, behind the neck: . 37 @ 182 lbs . 33 @ 198 lbs

10-27-2004, 03:37 PM	#22
milliman Pull up master Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: San Diego, Calif Posts: 386	The other issue with gun control is that when the citizens have no guns, the government is free to do whatever they want. The people have no ability to fight back. Our founding fathers came from Europe and kings and did not want to repeat that situation. Hitler disarmed his people too. (and a list of other dictators of which I do not have handy now) Mexico has gun control there. Do you feel safer there ?