Democrats get a lesson in morality

**dg806** · 11-04-2004, 10:24 AM

http://www.freep.com/features/living...e_20041104.htm

BY ROCHELLE RILEY
FREE PRESS COLUMNIST

The Democratic Party better get some religion.

Not just because the Republican Party strategy to place gay marriage bans on the ballot in 11 states got President George W. Bush re-elected.

Not just because Protestant voters preferred Bush to Kerry 54 percent to 45 percent.

No, the party needs religion because as America embraces its spirit, its moral values and its love of God, the Democratic Party's most loyal constituency -- African Americans -- are, too, making decisions based on moral values.

As a matter of fact, moral values, that elusive, hard-to-define issue that voters felt was more important than terrorism and Iraq, may be the one thing that finally connects blacks to whites, rich to poor. In a world where a filthy, violent video game is the best selling in history and teenage girls dress like prostitutes, moral values are making a comeback.

And politicians who refuse to recognize that might find themselves standing outside voting polls in 4 years wondering what happened.

"It appears that nationally the 4 million Christians that didn't come out for the president in 2000 did," said Bishop Keith Butler, pastor of Michigan's largest black church, the 21,000-member Word of Faith International Christian Center in Southfield.

Butler, a Bush supporter, was among dozens of southeast Michigan black pastors who either support the president or his policies or both -- and then urged their congregations to separate the man from the issues.

"We just re-emphasize what the Scripture teaches about marriage, that it is between a man and a woman," Butler said.

If you think this is a wartime fluke, a national moment of prayer fueled by fear of terrorism and Iraq, consider the words of the Rev. Edgar Vann, a Kerry supporter whose 5,000-member congregation in the heart of Detroit supported Bush's moral ideals, but not him.

"This election was won largely by the evangelical community, which is predominately white, but also has a significant black component, a very strong black component," said Vann, pastor of Second Ebenezer Baptist Church, where he encouraged members to vote for community approval of expanded gambling and against gay marriage.

"There were people who, even in these various battleground states, even who had lost jobs, chose to take a high moral stand on issues they felt speak to the unraveling of our country."

Most African Americans have been morally conservative even as they've been liberal on social and civil rights issues, he said. But when asked to choose between the two, more and more often, God wins.

"African Americans are more opposed to gay marriage than whites are," said David Bositis, senior political analyst for the Joint Center for Political and Economic Studies, a Washington, D.C., think tank. Forty-six percent of African Americans oppose any legal recognition of homosexual relationships, compared with 37 percent of whites who oppose it, he said.

Sen. John Kerry got 89 percent of the black vote, but if the gay marriage bans had not been on the ballots, Kerry would have won, Bositis said.

When the Joint Center released a poll of likely black voters that found that 18 percent planned to vote for Bush, double the 2000 total, the numbers included some black ministers who think Bush is right to provide easier access to government dollars for church-run community programs.

"I think that faith-based initiatives are one reason a number of these major ministries support the president," Vann said. "He seemed to recognize the strength and the ability of these organizations to meet needs that the government can't meet anymore.

"I saw a number of major pastors supporting Bush, and I was not surprised," Vann said. "I've been trying to tell people this for a long time. Nobody seems to want to listen, especially the Democratic Party. I see all over the country a significant rise in Bush's way of thinking: that the Democratic Party has become the secular party of America, the regional party. If you notice the map and look at the red states, that's basically the heartland of America."

If the campaign of 2004 masqueraded as a campaign on terrorism and the economy, the campaign of 2008 will be about America's heart -- and its values, both moral and spiritual.

You can watch Rochelle on "Am I Right?" on WTVS TV 56 at 5:30 p.m. Fridays and 2 p.m. Sundays. You can order her book "Life Lessons" (Detroit Free Press, $14.95) at 800-245-5082 or www.freep.com/bookstore.

Contact ROCHELLE RILEY at 313-223-4473 or e-mail riley@freepress.com. Her columns appear on Sundays, Wednesdays and Fridays.

Luke9583 · 11-04-2004, 10:44 AM

What a disgusting article.

"Butler, a Bush supporter, was among dozens of southeast Michigan black pastors who either support the president or his policies or both "

I'm in SE michigan... g'luck finding a black family that ISN'T protestant supporting Bush. What a joke.

"the 21,000-member Word of Faith International Christian Center in Southfield."
That is just a flat out JOKE. I go to school in Southfield. That place is always empty. There are ZERO bush supports in Southfield anyway.

The usage of the word "moral" in that article is disgusting and subjective. Anybody that feels Bush makes ANY decisions is fooling himself in the first place.

Did it ever occur to you that these people turn to religion because they fear for their way of living/life and know that the country is F'd up

"Freedom is the distance between church and state" -Winston Churchil

Pepper · 11-04-2004, 10:44 AM

I am 100% convinced that the Gay Marriage issue is what got Bush re-elected.

Pepper · 11-04-2004, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luke9583

What a disgusting article.

"Butler, a Bush supporter, was among dozens of southeast Michigan black pastors who either support the president or his policies or both "

I'm in SE michigan... g'luck finding a black family that ISN'T protestant supporting Bush. What a joke.

"the 21,000-member Word of Faith International Christian Center in Southfield."
That is just a flat out JOKE. I go to school in Southfield. That place is always empty. There are ZERO bush supports in Southfield anyway.

The usage of the word "moral" in that article is disgusting and subjective. Anybody that feels Bush makes ANY decisions is fooling himself in the first place.

Luke9583 · 11-04-2004, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pepper

**Prince** · 11-04-2004, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pepper

I am 100% convinced that the Gay Marriage issue is what got Bush re-elected.

really, because I am convinced that half of America is just brain washed.

Luke9583 · 11-04-2004, 10:50 AM

What would a former crack addict, DUI possesing, owner of both timber and oil companies know about morals?

Pepper · 11-04-2004, 10:52 AM

this is reminding me of why I stay out of these threads. The lack of sense in them is amazing.

Luke9583 · 11-04-2004, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pepper

this is reminding me of why I stay out of these threads. The lack of sense in them is amazing.

maybe you're the reason there's a lack of sense?

**I Are Baboon** · 11-04-2004, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dg806

The Democratic Party better get some religion. *SNIP*

This is why I am so utterly turned off by religion. It does more harm that good by driving people apart. Eh, I could go on but why bother?

ALBOB · 11-04-2004, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert DiMaggio

really, because I am convinced that half of America is just brain washed.

Nah, only about 48%. The other 52% voted for Bush.

redspy · 11-04-2004, 11:18 AM

Here's the actual front page of a popular UK newspaper

**CowPimp** · 11-04-2004, 11:18 AM

The Republican party should stop wearing religion on it's sleeve and try to actually implement some of it's moral values in it's policies.

busyLivin · 11-04-2004, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luke9583

What would a former crack addict, DUI possesing, owner of both timber and oil companies know about morals?

now that sounds like a sore loser.

c'mon, man.. move on.

Luke9583 · 11-04-2004, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by busyLivin

now that sounds like a sore loser.

c'mon, man.. move on.

Sore loser? Nope, i'm taking a stand w/ the UK on this one. I think you're "dumb"

Quote:

Originally Posted by redspy

Here's the actual front page of a popular UK newspaper

busyLivin · 11-04-2004, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luke9583

Sore loser? Nope, i'm taking a stand w/ the UK on this one. I think you're "dumb"

That's fine you don't agree with my vote, but what the hell.. don't whine about it! Bush won. It's over! That's all I was saying!

Luke9583 · 11-04-2004, 12:05 PM

Hey busy, it's all in the name of fun dude

No whining. Kerry could've have gotten much done with the repubs in both houses n/e way.

But why do you think there are magazines like that in the UK?

busyLivin · 11-04-2004, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luke9583

Hey busy, it's all in the name of fun dude

No whining. Kerry could've have gotten much done with the repubs in both houses n/e way.

But why do you think there are magazines like that in the UK?

Agreed

Well, not very popular there, I guess. Bush is without a doubt a very controversial president.

Luke9583 · 11-04-2004, 12:10 PM

That's for sure.

Where is he popular than? in the midwest and farm states,... i guess that's about it. Kerry won 90% of DC, so Bush obviously isn't very popular there.

What do you think that periodically would have published for a headline if Kerry had been elected

These are the kind questions I guess we'll never know the answer too. All I can do is pray that W. doesn't talk for 4 years.

MaxMirkin · 11-04-2004, 12:42 PM

My vote didn't count for shit. I'm still confused how we can have a Republican Mayor, a Republican Governor, and yet always end up voting for Democrats for prez. My fellow New Yorkers is screwy.

nikegurl · 11-04-2004, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luke9583

The usage of the word "moral" in that article is disgusting and subjective.

couldn't agree more

maniclion · 11-04-2004, 01:23 PM

This guy I've known for a few years, who in all is a decent person told me he voted for the "Burning Bush" (his words not mine) because God speaks through him. Anyway he's part of one of the "Cult" churches here that have there stickers on everything.

Luke9583 · 11-04-2004, 01:25 PM

that'sjust scary

maniclion · 11-04-2004, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luke9583

that'sjust scary

Here's another scary story. I talked to my neighbor and he said he voted Bush. I asked him how he could vote for someone who lied and jumped into a war without just cause. He said, "The President can't be wrong. He must know more than the common man. All of those stories about Osama and Saddam not being connected are propaganda."

redspy · 11-04-2004, 01:51 PM

Bush pulled off a great trick. He talks about being pro-life without advancing their case significantly (the partial birth abortion act is increasing being found unconstitutional). He knows the country isn't ready for overturning Roe v Wade but wins moral points for speaking out against the decision. With regard to stem cells he still allows private funding of research but gets more moral points for not using federal funding. The constitutional amendment against gay marriage is going nowhere but he gets moral points for starting the process. They has been some success at the state level I concede, but not the more important national level.

It's a great ploy for winning the God, Guns and Gay crowd without actually achieving anything.

Rich46yo · 11-04-2004, 02:39 PM

Boy you Liberals just kill me. You refuse to face reality even when it stares you in the face. Your arrogance and narcissim will help ensure a republican president for the next 20 years.

You'll never change, even when disaster is stareing you in the face............................Rich

11-04-2004, 10:24 AM	#1
dg806 Guardian of The Homeland Super Moderator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Charlotte NC Posts: 16,938	Democrats get a lesson in morality BODYBUILDING SUPPLEMENTS High Quality Supplements For Bodybuilders and Athletes. www.ironmaglabs.com http://www.freep.com/features/living...e_20041104.htm BY ROCHELLE RILEY FREE PRESS COLUMNIST The Democratic Party better get some religion. Not just because the Republican Party strategy to place gay marriage bans on the ballot in 11 states got President George W. Bush re-elected. Not just because Protestant voters preferred Bush to Kerry 54 percent to 45 percent. No, the party needs religion because as America embraces its spirit, its moral values and its love of God, the Democratic Party's most loyal constituency -- African Americans -- are, too, making decisions based on moral values. As a matter of fact, moral values, that elusive, hard-to-define issue that voters felt was more important than terrorism and Iraq, may be the one thing that finally connects blacks to whites, rich to poor. In a world where a filthy, violent video game is the best selling in history and teenage girls dress like prostitutes, moral values are making a comeback. And politicians who refuse to recognize that might find themselves standing outside voting polls in 4 years wondering what happened. "It appears that nationally the 4 million Christians that didn't come out for the president in 2000 did," said Bishop Keith Butler, pastor of Michigan's largest black church, the 21,000-member Word of Faith International Christian Center in Southfield. Butler, a Bush supporter, was among dozens of southeast Michigan black pastors who either support the president or his policies or both -- and then urged their congregations to separate the man from the issues. "We just re-emphasize what the Scripture teaches about marriage, that it is between a man and a woman," Butler said. If you think this is a wartime fluke, a national moment of prayer fueled by fear of terrorism and Iraq, consider the words of the Rev. Edgar Vann, a Kerry supporter whose 5,000-member congregation in the heart of Detroit supported Bush's moral ideals, but not him. "This election was won largely by the evangelical community, which is predominately white, but also has a significant black component, a very strong black component," said Vann, pastor of Second Ebenezer Baptist Church, where he encouraged members to vote for community approval of expanded gambling and against gay marriage. "There were people who, even in these various battleground states, even who had lost jobs, chose to take a high moral stand on issues they felt speak to the unraveling of our country." Most African Americans have been morally conservative even as they've been liberal on social and civil rights issues, he said. But when asked to choose between the two, more and more often, God wins. "African Americans are more opposed to gay marriage than whites are," said David Bositis, senior political analyst for the Joint Center for Political and Economic Studies, a Washington, D.C., think tank. Forty-six percent of African Americans oppose any legal recognition of homosexual relationships, compared with 37 percent of whites who oppose it, he said. Sen. John Kerry got 89 percent of the black vote, but if the gay marriage bans had not been on the ballots, Kerry would have won, Bositis said. When the Joint Center released a poll of likely black voters that found that 18 percent planned to vote for Bush, double the 2000 total, the numbers included some black ministers who think Bush is right to provide easier access to government dollars for church-run community programs. "I think that faith-based initiatives are one reason a number of these major ministries support the president," Vann said. "He seemed to recognize the strength and the ability of these organizations to meet needs that the government can't meet anymore. "I saw a number of major pastors supporting Bush, and I was not surprised," Vann said. "I've been trying to tell people this for a long time. Nobody seems to want to listen, especially the Democratic Party. I see all over the country a significant rise in Bush's way of thinking: that the Democratic Party has become the secular party of America, the regional party. If you notice the map and look at the red states, that's basically the heartland of America." If the campaign of 2004 masqueraded as a campaign on terrorism and the economy, the campaign of 2008 will be about America's heart -- and its values, both moral and spiritual. You can watch Rochelle on "Am I Right?" on WTVS TV 56 at 5:30 p.m. Fridays and 2 p.m. Sundays. You can order her book "Life Lessons" (Detroit Free Press, $14.95) at 800-245-5082 or www.freep.com/bookstore. Contact ROCHELLE RILEY at 313-223-4473 or e-mail riley@freepress.com. Her columns appear on Sundays, Wednesdays and Fridays.
	www.sbmuscle.com

11-04-2004, 10:44 AM	#2
Luke9583 Lucky Luke Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: idaho Posts: 5,390 Photos: 9	What a disgusting article. "Butler, a Bush supporter, was among dozens of southeast Michigan black pastors who either support the president or his policies or both " I'm in SE michigan... g'luck finding a black family that ISN'T protestant supporting Bush. What a joke. "the 21,000-member Word of Faith International Christian Center in Southfield." That is just a flat out JOKE. I go to school in Southfield. That place is always empty. There are ZERO bush supports in Southfield anyway. The usage of the word "moral" in that article is disgusting and subjective. Anybody that feels Bush makes ANY decisions is fooling himself in the first place. Did it ever occur to you that these people turn to religion because they fear for their way of living/life and know that the country is F'd up "Freedom is the distance between church and state" -Winston Churchil
	New goal for 2005, 190lbs @ 7% bf "She Blew my nose, and then she blew my mind"

11-04-2004, 10:50 AM	#7
Luke9583 Lucky Luke Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: idaho Posts: 5,390 Photos: 9	What would a former crack addict, DUI possesing, owner of both timber and oil companies know about morals?
	New goal for 2005, 190lbs @ 7% bf "She Blew my nose, and then she blew my mind"

11-04-2004, 11:18 AM	#12
redspy Member Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 3,040	Here's the actual front page of a popular UK newspaper
redspy Member Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 3,040

11-04-2004, 11:18 AM	#13
CowPimp Fueled by Testosterone Moderator Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Silver Spring, MD Posts: 15,400	The Republican party should stop wearing religion on it's sleeve and try to actually implement some of it's moral values in it's policies.
	The only time it's bad to feel the burn is when you're peeing... CowPimp Picks Up Heavy Shit MySpace YouTube Videos

11-04-2004, 10:44 AM	#3
Pepper Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 4,539	I am 100% convinced that the Gay Marriage issue is what got Bush re-elected.

11-04-2004, 10:52 AM	#8
Pepper Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 4,539	this is reminding me of why I stay out of these threads. The lack of sense in them is amazing.

11-04-2004, 12:05 PM	#17
Luke9583 Lucky Luke Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: idaho Posts: 5,390 Photos: 9	Hey busy, it's all in the name of fun dude No whining. Kerry could've have gotten much done with the repubs in both houses n/e way. But why do you think there are magazines like that in the UK?
	New goal for 2005, 190lbs @ 7% bf "She Blew my nose, and then she blew my mind"

11-04-2004, 12:10 PM	#19
Luke9583 Lucky Luke Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: idaho Posts: 5,390 Photos: 9	That's for sure. Where is he popular than? in the midwest and farm states,... i guess that's about it. Kerry won 90% of DC, so Bush obviously isn't very popular there. What do you think that periodically would have published for a headline if Kerry had been elected These are the kind questions I guess we'll never know the answer too. All I can do is pray that W. doesn't talk for 4 years.
	New goal for 2005, 190lbs @ 7% bf "She Blew my nose, and then she blew my mind"

11-04-2004, 12:42 PM	#20
MaxMirkin Cheerfully Offensive Join Date: May 2004 Location: NYC Posts: 3,696 Photos: 4	My vote didn't count for shit. I'm still confused how we can have a Republican Mayor, a Republican Governor, and yet always end up voting for Democrats for prez. My fellow New Yorkers is screwy.
	The lions sing and the hills take flight. The moon by day, and the sun by night. Blind woman, deaf man, jackdaw fool. Let the Lord of Chaos rule.

11-04-2004, 01:23 PM	#22
maniclion Catalyst Elite Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Hawaii, selling munitions for the war on EcoTerror Posts: 17,386 Photos: 10	This guy I've known for a few years, who in all is a decent person told me he voted for the "Burning Bush" (his words not mine) because God speaks through him. Anyway he's part of one of the "Cult" churches here that have there stickers on everything.

11-04-2004, 01:25 PM	#23
Luke9583 Lucky Luke Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: idaho Posts: 5,390 Photos: 9	that'sjust scary
	New goal for 2005, 190lbs @ 7% bf "She Blew my nose, and then she blew my mind"

11-04-2004, 01:51 PM	#25
redspy Member Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 3,040	Bush pulled off a great trick. He talks about being pro-life without advancing their case significantly (the partial birth abortion act is increasing being found unconstitutional). He knows the country isn't ready for overturning Roe v Wade but wins moral points for speaking out against the decision. With regard to stem cells he still allows private funding of research but gets more moral points for not using federal funding. The constitutional amendment against gay marriage is going nowhere but he gets moral points for starting the process. They has been some success at the state level I concede, but not the more important national level. It's a great ploy for winning the God, Guns and Gay crowd without actually achieving anything.
redspy Member Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 3,040

11-04-2004, 02:39 PM	#26
Rich46yo Registered User Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 861	Boy you Liberals just kill me. You refuse to face reality even when it stares you in the face. Your arrogance and narcissim will help ensure a republican president for the next 20 years. You'll never change, even when disaster is stareing you in the face............................Rich
Rich46yo Registered User Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 861	"Death to Tyrants"!