Political Capital

redspy · 11-11-2004, 02:05 PM

With the MBNA Political Capital MasterCard, every dollar spent or vote received will earn you one Political Capital Point. You can use your points for valuable travel, hotel and shopping rewards, or simply to further your mandate. Even better, Political Capital Points can be transferred into most Frequent Flyer and 527 Group accounts. With Political Capital Points, how you use them is up to you!

Points:

Redeem for:

1,000 $10 Sausage Orgy at Waffle House
1,800 Medley of decorative soaps from Bed Bath & Beyond
2,500 $30 worth of patriotic iTunes from the Apple Store
4,000 Michael Moore's underwear (XXL) and hat (M)
10,000 MP3 of Moby, Springsteen and P. Diddy weeping
14,500 Roget's Vocabulary-Clinic DVD Set
30,000 60 Minutes of Dan Rather cursing like a sailor
75,000 "Happy ending" massage from Ann Coulter
100,000 Taunting Blogad on The Daily Kos
200,000 Positive mention in the New York Times
475,000 Khofi Annan streaking naked down 2nd Avenue
800,000 Rights to "Still The One" by Orleans
1,250,000 Vacancy in the Palestinian Authority
2,796,147 The electoral votes of Ohio
4,500,000 A shocked look from John Kerry, many others
10,000,000 Uncontested Hyperconservative Supreme Court appointment
15,000,000 Roe v. Wade
18,500,000 Complimentary Drilling, Arctic National Wildlife Refuge
20,000,000 Flawless regime change - Middle East or Old Europe
25,000,000 Enthusiastic applause during any United Nations address
35,500,000 Giant "I'm The Boss Of You" Planetary Billboard
40,000,000 Any enriched uranium Kim Jong Il has lying around
42,000,000 Coordinates of bin Laden's dialysis clinic
59,000,000 Christ Returns, constituency rises to chorus of angels

**Dale Mabry** · 11-11-2004, 02:12 PM

I am saving for the Ann Coulter happy ending. I will be depositing the baby battery directly to her face as well.

redspy · 11-11-2004, 02:15 PM

It includes a complimentary shot in the eye, matted hair and swallowing is extra points

BoneCrusher · 11-11-2004, 02:55 PM

Getting her to stop talking extra too?

maniclion · 11-11-2004, 03:07 PM

Flawless regime change (does that include time travel? cause I think it's a little late for that)

OceanDude · 11-11-2004, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dale Mabry

I am saving for the Ann Coulter happy ending. I will be depositing the baby battery directly to her face as well.

mmmm Ann Coulter - my vision of the perfect woman!!!! I'd kiss this womans feet.

OD

Big Smoothy · 11-11-2004, 11:32 PM

There may be some political capital in the houses of Congresses but from the President there may be a little or there may be none.

Bush won by 3.5 million votes.

4 million Evangelicals voted.

Is this enought for political capital?

If Bush moves ahead and revamps the largest and most defunct welfare program in the world: Social Security, I will have some respect for him.

The Social Security system is so flawed that at 34, I don't pay into it, and I don't WANT to pay into it.

maniclion · 11-12-2004, 01:28 AM

Is this Ann Coulter arresting Maureen Dowd for treason or free press as it is also known?

OceanDude · 11-12-2004, 03:51 AM

Ann Coulter - quite possibly the most intelligent woman (or person) on the planet!!!

Ann Coulter
Intelligence!!! Beauty!!! Grace !!!! Wit!!! Poise!!! Goddess!!! Liberal Slayer!!! What more could any man want?

Quite possibly the only woman on the planet that my wife would authorize a 3-some with for the possibility the intelligence might rub off.

LOVE!!! LUST!!!

OD

OceanDude · 11-12-2004, 04:04 AM

Oh Manic,
I have a question. I wrote a thesis on solar power and wanted to check your reference on your siggy claim:
PV technology can meet electricity demand on any scale. The solar energy resource in a 100-mile-square area of Nevada could supply the United States with all its electricity (about 800 gigawatts) using modestly efficient (10%) commercial solar electric modules.

Can you tell me where you got that source? Conventional Solar Power can offer no where near this energy density since the density of energy available anywhere on the planet and the efficiency of conversation, storage, and transmission is no where near what that claim is. Preposterous.

OD

redspy · 11-12-2004, 10:15 AM

maniclion · 11-12-2004, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OceanDude

Oh Manic,
I have a question. I wrote a thesis on solar power and wanted to check your reference on your siggy claim:
PV technology can meet electricity demand on any scale. The solar energy resource in a 100-mile-square area of Nevada could supply the United States with all its electricity (about 800 gigawatts) using modestly efficient (10%) commercial solar electric modules.

Can you tell me where you got that source? Conventional Solar Power can offer no where near this energy density since the density of energy available anywhere on the planet and the efficiency of conversation, storage, and transmission is no where near what that claim is. Preposterous.

OD

U.S. Department of Energy Website http://www.eere.energy.gov/solar/myths.html
Myth 1: Solar electricity cannot serve any significant fraction of U.S. or world electricity needs.

PV technology can meet electricity demand on any scale. The solar energy resource in a 100-mile-square area of Nevada could supply the United States with all its electricity (about 800 gigawatts) using modestly efficient (10%) commercial PV modules.

A more realistic scenario involves distributing these same PV systems throughout the 50 states. Currently available sites—such as vacant land, parking lots, and rooftops—could be used. The land requirement to produce 800 gigawatts would average out to be about 17 x 17 miles per state. Alternatively, PV systems built in the "brownfields"—the estimated 5 million acres of abandoned industrial sites in our nation's cities—could supply 90% of America's current electricity.

These hypothetical cases emphasize that PV is not "area-impaired" in delivering electricity. The critical point is that PV does not have to compete with baseload power. Its strength is in providing electricity when and where energy is most limited and most expensive. It does not simply replace some fraction of generation. Rather, it displaces the right portion of the load, shaving peak demand during periods when energy is most constrained and expensive.

In the long run, the U.S. PV Industry Roadmap does expect PV to provide a "significant fraction of U.S. electricity needs." This adds up to at least 15% of new added electricity capacity in 2020, and then 10 years later, at least 10% of the nation's total electricity. (PDF 674 KB) Download Acrobat Reader.

Vieope · 11-12-2004, 12:32 PM

How much would I spend to set up a PV system to power my house?

maniclion · 11-12-2004, 12:51 PM

how many kw's, stand alone or grid-tie?

Vieope · 11-12-2004, 12:58 PM

Between 500 and 600 kw, I don´t know what you mean with " stand alone or grid-tie".

maniclion · 11-12-2004, 01:02 PM

500 to 600 KW a day? What's the Irradiance or peak sun hours for your zone in Brazil?

Do you want to be independent from the utility or share loads with PV and utility power.

Vieope · 11-12-2004, 01:07 PM

A day? Damn, who consume that much? No, per month. There is sun every hour here. I guess even at night I can get some sun
Let´s see how much independent(stand alone) would be, than we see share loads(grid-tie). I´m so smart

maniclion · 11-12-2004, 01:24 PM

So 18k a day? About $42,000 that's 65 PV modules, 1 Outback FX2548, 1 Outback MX60, 40 L-16 batteries and the misc. components to tie it all together.

Grid-tie ranges from $15 - 40 thousand depending on how much utility you want to cut down.

As always I suggest you get Solar Thermal Hot water panels before you invest in PV. It can cut your bill down from 35-50% depending on how your hot water usage is and the payback is generally 5 years in the U.S higher or lower depending on your consumption and utility rates. What the price per KWh in Brazil?

Vieope · 11-12-2004, 01:32 PM

1 KW must be less than 50 cents of a dollar.
I don´t use hot water. Maybe I will buy something to power the computer and other eletronics first. Is there something inexpensive to do that?

maniclion · 11-12-2004, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vieope

1 KW must be less than 50 cents of a dollar.
I don´t use hot water. Maybe I will buy something to power the computer and other eletronics first. Is there something inexpensive to do that?

Solar power is scalable all the way down to watch battery size
http://www.creativewatch.co.uk/jungh...r-watches.html
I have sold many small systems to researchers to power their computers in the field usually between $1500 - $3000

We just sold $2500 worth to the Mil. to power a radar on a missile guidance target. It will be blown up. It was 1.5KW worth of battery and 850 Watts worth of PV, that's would make a nice little back-up system for my house

. Just think while the neighbors are sitting in the dark you are in your house with the radio blasting and the lights on

laughing at them scrambling for candles in the dark.

milliman · 11-12-2004, 03:04 PM

Lion,

Ithink there is a conflict here in these statements ?

Quote:

PV technology can meet electricity demand on any scale. The solar energy resource in a 100-mile-square area of Nevada could supply the United States with all its electricity (about 800 gigawatts) using modestly efficient (10%) commercial PV modules.
.
A more realistic scenario involves distributing these same PV systems throughout the 50 states. Currently available sites—such as vacant land, parking lots, and rooftops—could be used. The land requirement to produce 800 gigawatts would average out to be about 17 x 17 miles per state. Alternatively, PV systems built in the "brownfields"—the estimated 5 million acres of abandoned industrial sites in our nation's cities—could supply 90% of America's current electricity.

Paragraph one, says 100 sq mile area could provide all electricity for entire US.
Paragraph two, says 17 x 17 mile per state (289 sq miles) to do the same.

Which is it ?

Cost looks prohibitively expensive. I looked into one back in 2000/2001 when we got reemed here in California. If memory serves me, payback period was something like 25 to 30 years. (but only if the rates remained really high.) If electric rates dropped, payback would be even longer.

This did not even include interest either.

Have costs come down ?

milliman · 11-12-2004, 03:13 PM

Lion,

What would it cost to supply my house thru PV.
I live in San Diego. Lots of sun
last month of summer we used about 2,300 kWh. (well, a/c & pool)
Ave cost per kWh = 18.2 cents (Thanks to our old Governor Gray Dufus)
Electric bill was $432.
We would need to be tied into grid in case system broke or we needed more than capacity of system. Here, we can sell excess capacity back to grid too.

Vieope · 11-12-2004, 03:15 PM

How about wind power?
Manic, do you have a lot of black out in Hawaii?

maniclion · 11-12-2004, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milliman

Lion,

Ithink there is a conflict here in these statements ?

Quote:

PV technology can meet electricity demand on any scale. The solar energy resource in a 100-mile-square area of Nevada could supply the United States with all its electricity (about 800 gigawatts) using modestly efficient (10%) commercial PV modules.
.
A more realistic scenario involves distributing these same PV systems throughout the 50 states. Currently available sites—such as vacant land, parking lots, and rooftops—could be used. The land requirement to produce 800 gigawatts would average out to be about 17 x 17 miles per state. Alternatively, PV systems built in the "brownfields"—the estimated 5 million acres of abandoned industrial sites in our nation's cities—could supply 90% of America's current electricity.

Paragraph one, says 100 sq mile area could provide all electricity for entire US.
Paragraph two, says 17 x 17 mile per state (289 sq miles) to do the same.

Which is it ? Location Nevada gets more sun irradiance than Maine etc.

Cost looks prohibitively expensive. I looked into one back in 2000/2001 when we got reemed here in California. If memory serves me, payback period was something like 25 to 30 years. (but only if the rates remained really high.) If electric rates dropped, payback would be even longer.

It is expensive, but the utility rates will not go down, plus more and more incentives are being brought forth by the states each year so that helps the cost.

And yes price per watt is down significantly and the technology helps squeeze more efficiency out every year.

Green text added

maniclion · 11-12-2004, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milliman

Lion,

What would it cost to supply my house thru PV.
I live in San Diego. Lots of sun
last month of summer we used about 2,300 kWh. (well, a/c & pool)
Ave cost per kWh = 18.2 cents (Thanks to our old Governor Gray Dufus)
Electric bill was $432.
We would need to be tied into grid in case system broke or we needed more than capacity of system. Here, we can sell excess capacity back to grid too.

First, do you have solar hot water? That is the most important part because converting electricity to heat water is the most wasteful. Our mother co. is in Fontana, Sunearth they Manufacture the hot water panels. I would definitely get that before anything. The finances are real on that side absolutely.

for PV grid-tie probably around 18K (thats ballpark I highly recommend getting an estimate from an installer), but you also get great incentives in Cali.
Installed PV is usually around $9-10 so the $4.50 is almost a 50% rebate. If you are seriously looking into do it while Arnolds in cause he is doing wonderful things for renewables right now.

The County of San Diego has a Green Building Incentive Program designed to promote the use of resource efficient construction materials, water conservation and energy efficiency in new and remodeled residential and commercial buildings. As part of the program, the County offers an incentive for residential photovoltaic systems, waiving fees for the building permit and plan check of residential photovoltaic systems. (Homeowners Relief Act). To qualify for the incentives, the project must comply with one of the resource conservation measures specified.
California's Solar or Wind Energy System Credit (SB17x2) was approved by the Governor on October 8, 2001. The law provides personal and corporate income tax credits for the purchase and installation of photovoltaic or wind driven systems with a peak generating capacity of up to 200 kilowatts. After January 1, 2004 and before January 1, 2006, the tax credit is equal to 7.5% of the net installed system cost after deducting the value of any municipal, state, or federal sponsored financial incentives, or $4.50 per watt of rated peak generating capacity, whichever is less.

More here: http://www.dsireusa.org/library/incl...eID=1&State=CA

11-11-2004, 02:05 PM	#1
redspy Member Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 3,040	Political Capital BODYBUILDING SUPPLEMENTS High Quality Supplements For Bodybuilders and Athletes. www.ironmaglabs.com With the MBNA Political Capital MasterCard, every dollar spent or vote received will earn you one Political Capital Point. You can use your points for valuable travel, hotel and shopping rewards, or simply to further your mandate. Even better, Political Capital Points can be transferred into most Frequent Flyer and 527 Group accounts. With Political Capital Points, how you use them is up to you! Points: Redeem for: 1,000 $10 Sausage Orgy at Waffle House 1,800 Medley of decorative soaps from Bed Bath & Beyond 2,500 $30 worth of patriotic iTunes from the Apple Store 4,000 Michael Moore's underwear (XXL) and hat (M) 10,000 MP3 of Moby, Springsteen and P. Diddy weeping 14,500 Roget's Vocabulary-Clinic DVD Set 30,000 60 Minutes of Dan Rather cursing like a sailor 75,000 "Happy ending" massage from Ann Coulter 100,000 Taunting Blogad on The Daily Kos 200,000 Positive mention in the New York Times 475,000 Khofi Annan streaking naked down 2nd Avenue 800,000 Rights to "Still The One" by Orleans 1,250,000 Vacancy in the Palestinian Authority 2,796,147 The electoral votes of Ohio 4,500,000 A shocked look from John Kerry, many others 10,000,000 Uncontested Hyperconservative Supreme Court appointment 15,000,000 Roe v. Wade 18,500,000 Complimentary Drilling, Arctic National Wildlife Refuge 20,000,000 Flawless regime change - Middle East or Old Europe 25,000,000 Enthusiastic applause during any United Nations address 35,500,000 Giant "I'm The Boss Of You" Planetary Billboard 40,000,000 Any enriched uranium Kim Jong Il has lying around 42,000,000 Coordinates of bin Laden's dialysis clinic 59,000,000 Christ Returns, constituency rises to chorus of angels
redspy Member Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 3,040

11-11-2004, 02:12 PM	#2
Dale Mabry Moderator Moderator Join Date: May 2003 Location: Elsewhere Posts: 13,734 Photos: 10	I am saving for the Ann Coulter happy ending. I will be depositing the baby battery directly to her face as well.
	If sense were common, everyone would have it. 4/2007-Current 75th Ranked most popular image 1 spot behind Prince's bulge...

11-11-2004, 02:15 PM	#3
redspy Member Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 3,040	It includes a complimentary shot in the eye, matted hair and swallowing is extra points
redspy Member Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 3,040

11-12-2004, 04:04 AM	#10
OceanDude Well Read Elite Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Cape Canaveral, FL Posts: 1,853	Oh Manic, I have a question. I wrote a thesis on solar power and wanted to check your reference on your siggy claim: PV technology can meet electricity demand on any scale. The solar energy resource in a 100-mile-square area of Nevada could supply the United States with all its electricity (about 800 gigawatts) using modestly efficient (10%) commercial solar electric modules. Can you tell me where you got that source? Conventional Solar Power can offer no where near this energy density since the density of energy available anywhere on the planet and the efficiency of conversation, storage, and transmission is no where near what that claim is. Preposterous. OD
	"Doc, If I had known I was going to live this long I would have taken better care of myself..." Est unusquisque faber ipsae suae fortunae. We Americans scoff at the likes of African witch doctors yet spend 100's of millions of dollars on fake reducing systems. The only regular exercise he gets is stretching the truth. His intellect is not replenished, he is only an animal, only sensible in the duller parts...

11-12-2004, 10:15 AM	#11
redspy Member Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 3,040
redspy Member Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 3,040

11-11-2004, 02:55 PM	#4
BoneCrusher Lift or Die Elite Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Austin Texas Posts: 8,311	Getting her to stop talking extra too?

11-11-2004, 03:07 PM	#5
maniclion Catalyst Elite Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Hawaii, selling munitions for the war on EcoTerror Posts: 17,267 Photos: 10	Flawless regime change (does that include time travel? cause I think it's a little late for that)

11-11-2004, 11:32 PM	#7
Big Smoothy Windy City Elite Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Chicago Posts: 2,615	There may be some political capital in the houses of Congresses but from the President there may be a little or there may be none. Bush won by 3.5 million votes. 4 million Evangelicals voted. Is this enought for political capital? If Bush moves ahead and revamps the largest and most defunct welfare program in the world: Social Security, I will have some respect for him. The Social Security system is so flawed that at 34, I don't pay into it, and I don't WANT to pay into it.

11-12-2004, 01:28 AM	#8
maniclion Catalyst Elite Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Hawaii, selling munitions for the war on EcoTerror Posts: 17,267 Photos: 10	Is this Ann Coulter arresting Maureen Dowd for treason or free press as it is also known?

11-12-2004, 12:32 PM	#13
Vieope Monochromatic Bunny Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: drinking coffee.. Posts: 14,808 Photos: 10	How much would I spend to set up a PV system to power my house?
	FURtherness

11-12-2004, 12:51 PM	#14
maniclion Catalyst Elite Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Hawaii, selling munitions for the war on EcoTerror Posts: 17,267 Photos: 10	how many kw's, stand alone or grid-tie?

11-12-2004, 12:58 PM	#15
Vieope Monochromatic Bunny Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: drinking coffee.. Posts: 14,808 Photos: 10	Between 500 and 600 kw, I don´t know what you mean with " stand alone or grid-tie".
	FURtherness

11-12-2004, 01:02 PM	#16
maniclion Catalyst Elite Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Hawaii, selling munitions for the war on EcoTerror Posts: 17,267 Photos: 10	500 to 600 KW a day? What's the Irradiance or peak sun hours for your zone in Brazil? Do you want to be independent from the utility or share loads with PV and utility power.

11-12-2004, 01:07 PM	#17
Vieope Monochromatic Bunny Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: drinking coffee.. Posts: 14,808 Photos: 10	A day? Damn, who consume that much? No, per month. There is sun every hour here. I guess even at night I can get some sun Let´s see how much independent(stand alone) would be, than we see share loads(grid-tie). I´m so smart
	FURtherness

11-12-2004, 01:24 PM	#18
maniclion Catalyst Elite Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Hawaii, selling munitions for the war on EcoTerror Posts: 17,267 Photos: 10	So 18k a day? About $42,000 that's 65 PV modules, 1 Outback FX2548, 1 Outback MX60, 40 L-16 batteries and the misc. components to tie it all together. Grid-tie ranges from $15 - 40 thousand depending on how much utility you want to cut down. As always I suggest you get Solar Thermal Hot water panels before you invest in PV. It can cut your bill down from 35-50% depending on how your hot water usage is and the payback is generally 5 years in the U.S higher or lower depending on your consumption and utility rates. What the price per KWh in Brazil?

11-12-2004, 01:32 PM	#19
Vieope Monochromatic Bunny Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: drinking coffee.. Posts: 14,808 Photos: 10	1 KW must be less than 50 cents of a dollar. I don´t use hot water. Maybe I will buy something to power the computer and other eletronics first. Is there something inexpensive to do that?
	FURtherness

11-12-2004, 03:04 PM	#21
milliman Pull up master Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: San Diego, Calif Posts: 386	Lion, Ithink there is a conflict here in these statements ? Quote: PV technology can meet electricity demand on any scale. The solar energy resource in a 100-mile-square area of Nevada could supply the United States with all its electricity (about 800 gigawatts) using modestly efficient (10%) commercial PV modules. . A more realistic scenario involves distributing these same PV systems throughout the 50 states. Currently available sites—such as vacant land, parking lots, and rooftops—could be used. The land requirement to produce 800 gigawatts would average out to be about 17 x 17 miles per state. Alternatively, PV systems built in the "brownfields"—the estimated 5 million acres of abandoned industrial sites in our nation's cities—could supply 90% of America's current electricity. Paragraph one, says 100 sq mile area could provide all electricity for entire US. Paragraph two, says 17 x 17 mile per state (289 sq miles) to do the same. Which is it ? Cost looks prohibitively expensive. I looked into one back in 2000/2001 when we got reemed here in California. If memory serves me, payback period was something like 25 to 30 years. (but only if the rates remained really high.) If electric rates dropped, payback would be even longer. This did not even include interest either. Have costs come down ?
	Quitters never win, and winners never quit ! ! ! Who says big guys can't do pull ups ? Wide grip, behind the neck: . 37 @ 182 lbs . 33 @ 198 lbs

11-12-2004, 03:13 PM	#22
milliman Pull up master Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: San Diego, Calif Posts: 386	Lion, What would it cost to supply my house thru PV. I live in San Diego. Lots of sun last month of summer we used about 2,300 kWh. (well, a/c & pool) Ave cost per kWh = 18.2 cents (Thanks to our old Governor Gray Dufus) Electric bill was $432. We would need to be tied into grid in case system broke or we needed more than capacity of system. Here, we can sell excess capacity back to grid too.

11-12-2004, 03:15 PM	#23
Vieope Monochromatic Bunny Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: drinking coffee.. Posts: 14,808 Photos: 10	How about wind power? Manic, do you have a lot of black out in Hawaii?
	FURtherness