Ron Artest not alone......

DFINEST · 11-30-2004, 06:42 PM

Race, class changes dynamics of player-fan brawls
Date: Tuesday, November 30, 2004
By: TRACIE POWELL, BlackAmericaWeb.com

Cocky and foolish, Otto Blotz heckled loudly from the stands. Within minutes a player –cockier and bigger – charged into the bleachers and pummeled the spectator upside the head, jabs bounded off the fan’s face like a golf ball from a rock, reported The New York Times.

The player wasn't Indiana Pacers forward Ron Artest. The year wasn't 2004. It was 1912, and the player who went after the heckler was Detroit Tiger baseball great Ty Cobb. Cobb, who was known as a bigot and as baseball's meanest player, clocked Blotz after he allegedly called him a half-nigger.

Cobb's penalty – a $200 fine and an eight-day suspension – was considered severe for his day. Artest, however, faces a suspension for the rest of the season and a loss of $5 million for going into the stands after a fan who threw a drink on him.

But while it is unclear whether black players who go after abusive fans face more severe penalties than white players who do the same thing, what is clear is that since Cobb's time, there have been numerous incidents in which players have left fields and courts to retaliate against rude fans in the stands. It was only in 2000, for example, when Los Angeles Dodgers coaches John Shelby and Rick Dempsey joined catcher Chad Kreuter and a slew of other Dodgers in going after Chicago Cubs fans at Wrigley Field who had been showering beer on them.

Ultimately, three coaches were suspended for 24 games, while nine players were suspended for 60 games.

But at least one expert said that economics and race play a part in the kind of fan rudeness that riled Artest.

There is a growing economic chasm between the players – 90 percent of them extremely wealthy blacks – and fans who are mostly white and certainly not as rich, Peter Roby, Director of the Center for the Study of Sport in Society at Northeastern University in Massachusetts, told BlackAmericaWeb.com.

"There’s just not as much in common with each other because the economics have gotten to the point where players no longer live in the community where the fans live, their kids no longer go to the same schools, and they no longer shop in the same grocery stores," Roby said. "And I think there’s some resentment on the part of fans with regard to that economic divide, especially those white fans that maybe feel like it’s not fair for a young, African American athlete to all of a sudden have all this kind of money. And in their view, flaunt that money and position by acting in ways that they don’t find acceptable.”

Roby, who is black, said the players also feel that they don't have to answer to fans.

"The players have gotten to a point where they’re so economically independent now, that they feel like they have the wherewithal to take matters into their own hands or lead their lives in ways that may not meet the expectations of the fans, because in their minds, they don’t need them," he said. "And that creates a recipe for the kinds of pent-up emotion and disregard that we saw on display in Detroit."

Roby, however, believes the punishment meted out by National Basketball Association Commissioner David Stern is justified.

"You have to send a strong message that that kind of behavior won’t be tolerated again and that it’s going to impact more than just yourself," he said. "I think the thing that people need to understand is that Ron Artest and his teammates put his team at an incredible disadvantage now for the rest of the season. So they’ve impacted the livelihood of the rest of their players, the franchise, and the fans."

As much as some people might suggest that Artest was right in charging after the fan who hit him, Roby said at some point he should have thought about the consequences of his actions and how his family, teammates and the league itself would be impacted.

Opinions vary on whether the response to the brawl was simply an overreaction to the fight and who is ultimately responsible. Some say Artest, others say the fan who threw the plastic cup at the player while he was down. But Jerry M. Lewis sees another culprit — the owners.

Lewis, a professor of sociology at Kent State University in Ohio and author of the forthcoming book, “Fan Violence: An American Social Problem,” said while he doesn’t excuse their behavior, fans and players aren’t ultimately at fault.

Owners typically lose money on sports teams, Lewis said, but ownership gives them status. To avoid losing more money than they’d like, owners sell hype and emotion to fill seats.

"They should be selling great athletes, but they’re not," he said. "They sell excitement, they sell emotion. The owners hand out these wands that you wave to distract players when their shooting a free throw. They hand out cards that you hold up when a player is introduced, these cards are typically insulting. Owners like fights because fights draw crowds. But there’s no dimmer switch on emotion. They try and get people as hyped up and they’re selling this with the scoreboards and the music. Then they start wringing their hands when something like this happens."

At least one owner is taking heed to the role they may play in creating an environment conducive to violence.

An advertising campaign for the Charlotte Bobcats, the team owned by Black Entertainment Television founder Robert Johnson, could become a casualty of what happened between the Pacers and Pistons. The commercials were scheduled to begin last week, but the team’s president said a climate change has taken place and the franchise is reviewing a decision to run the ads, a spokesman announced last week.

The television commercials feature a fiery Bobcats fan who appears around Charlotte with cardboard cutouts representing star players on opposing teams, including Kobe Bryant, Yao Ming and Shaquille O'Neal. Under the care of the character, however, the cutouts are plagued by various exaggerated acts of mayhem that render them smashed, wrecked, soaked, buried or ruined. The O'Neal cutout falls into a barbecue grill at a cookout and is incinerated.

Johnson’s office did not immediately return a phone call from BlackAmericaWeb.com to say whether a final decision on the commercials had been reached.

Player-fan violence is the rarest form of sports violence, said Lewis who has studied sports for years and is a fan. The most common form of violence takes place while fans are celebrating, most times don’t involve an opponent, and results in vandalism. The third kind of fan violence involves fans fighting fans.

Historically, most fan violence takes place at hockey and baseball games. But violence was very prevalent at basketball games in the 1970s, that is until Kermit Washington of the Los Angeles Lakers nearly destroyed Rudy Tomjanovich's face with a devastating punch. Tomjanovich, of the Houston Rockets, suffered fractures of the face and skull. His nose was broken, and he suffered a separated upper jaw, a concussion and lacerations around his mouth. He was leaking spinal fluid into his nose. He recovered and won a $3.2 million lawsuit.

Washington was fined $10,000 and suspended for 60 days (a loss of about $75,000 in pay), and saw his career plummet. He played with four teams over the next five years and retired in 1982 at age 30. And, at least for a while, fights at NBA games were virtually nonexistent.

Roby said American prisons are full of good people who made bad decisions in a fit of rage. But he and Lewis both agree that the Pistons-Pacers event is a rare, isolated incident.

"There are plenty of players who are law abiding, respectful citizens of their communities," Roby said. "And I don’t want people to lose sight of that. This isn’t a nightly occurrence on an NBA arena where players are going after fans. But it is still something that needs people’s attention."

**Mudge** · 11-30-2004, 07:14 PM

In the paper on monday was an article about a coach for a kids soccer team, who apparently was sneaking in older players and not providing proof of age upon request. So the coach kicked a ref in the face because he was upset about being asked to prove the childrens ages, which they all have to do

**Dale Mabry** · 11-30-2004, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mudge

In the paper on monday was an article about a coach for a kids soccer team, who apparently was sneaking in older players and not providing proof of age upon request. So the coach kicked a ref in the face because he was upset about being asked to prove the childrens ages, which they all have to do

And when asked if I would do it again, I would.

Little Wing · 12-01-2004, 01:00 AM

It was 1912, and the player who went after the heckler was Detroit Tiger baseball great Ty Cobb.

cman · 12-01-2004, 01:28 AM

The race card is always gonna get played, weather it applies or not. Shamefull. But I say, you throw something at a player, or player throws somthing at a fan, its assult. The fan should get the same fine as artest. If he can't afford it, than drop artest,s fine to what the fan can afford. You pick a fight, you could get your Face punched. You get what you get, stop crying.
The By stander that got hit, Let him go to court or Artest can settle. But I think the fans need to understand they should respect these guy's, it's why you are there. To watch the best of the best, perform for you. If the players are fined so bad they are affraid to defend themselves, the fans will do more. I say a fan throws something at you, run up in the stands and stomp a mudd hole in their A**!

**dg806** · 12-01-2004, 08:24 AM

Roby said American prisons are full of good people who made bad decisions in a fit of rage.

This would apply to every criminal on the street then. People have to learn they can't do this................. period! That is what seperates decent people from the rest. They have the judgement to not do it.

Big Smoothy · 12-01-2004, 09:43 AM

The guy who threw the drink on him was a coward who deserved a smaking.

But for Artest, who gives a sh*t.

He's a multi-millionaire who would be the world's tallest janitor if it wasn't for the NBA.

Who cares?

Newt · 12-01-2004, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cman

The race card is always gonna get played, weather it applies or not.

I know this is not the complete quote but I totally agree. There is nothing a heckler could say that to make a fu(king millionair climb into the stands for anything. I don't care what that fat drunk in the stand said to Artest! If anything these actions give credit and meaning to what Artest was called. If he hadn't always acted like one then he probably wouldn't be called one so much. I would bet anything that Ron Artest has had twice as many derogatory remarks made twords him by stupid rednecks in the stands than Jordan ever got. That is just because of the difference in the way the two carried themselves and acted. If you are gonna always act like a punk then people are gonna give you hell for it.

cman · 12-01-2004, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Newt

I know this is not the complete quote but I totally agree. There is nothing a heckler could say that to make a fu(king millionair climb into the stands for anything. I don't care what that fat drunk in the stand said to Artest! If anything these actions give credit and meaning to what Artest was called. If he hadn't always acted like one then he probably wouldn't be called one so much. I would bet anything that Ron Artest has had twice as many derogatory remarks made twords him by stupid rednecks in the stands than Jordan ever got. That is just because of the difference in the way the two carried themselves and acted. If you are gonna always act like a punk then people are gonna give you hell for it.

I don't know anything about artest. never heard of him before this. I don't watch sports, with the exception of GP motorcycle racing and boxing. I don't know nor care who was in the world series, or the superbowl. He may be a punk that deserves to be heckled, But you throw some thing at anyone, you get what you get. I wouldn't throw a beer at Mike tyson and then be surprised when he beat my A. I'd expect it. I know some of those players are real Idiots. I came from Phoenix and looked for Charles Barkley when I was out and about. I couldn't stand his racist punk ass remarks. If I would have seen him, We would have thrown down.

Win, lose, or draw, he would have went home sore as all get out, knowing he was in a fight with a man. And maybe he would think twice before saying White is weak. "WEAK THIS PUNK" POW.

DFINEST · 12-01-2004, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dg806

Roby said American prisons are full of good people who made bad decisions in a fit of rage.

This would apply to every criminal on the street then. People have to learn they can't do this................. period! That is what seperates decent people from the rest. They have the judgement to not do it.

DFINEST · 12-01-2004, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Newt

I know this is not the complete quote but I totally agree. There is nothing a heckler could say that to make a fu(king millionair climb into the stands for anything. I don't care what that fat drunk in the stand said to Artest! If anything these actions give credit and meaning to what Artest was called. If he hadn't always acted like one then he probably wouldn't be called one so much. I would bet anything that Ron Artest has had twice as many derogatory remarks made twords him by stupid rednecks in the stands than Jordan ever got. That is just because of the difference in the way the two carried themselves and acted. If you are gonna always act like a punk then people are gonna give you hell for it.

That's correct but APPARENTLY,
ty cobb and Chad Krueter, Rick Dempsey and other Dodger players
didn't think so. Weren't these athletes PUNKS as well...

Especially cobb, who went into the stands after a fan who didn't throw anything at him, the fan just made a derogatory remark about him and his mother

I wonder what kind of music do they listen to;
I'll BET it's not RAP or Hip Hop music.

cman · 12-01-2004, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DFINEST

That's correct but APPARENTLY,
ty cobb and Chad Krueter, Rick Dempsey and other Dodger players
didn't think so. Weren't these athletes PUNKS as well...

Especially cobb, who went into the stands after a fan who didn't throw anything at him, the fan just made a derogatory remark about him and his mother

I wonder what kind of music do they listen to;
I'll BET it's not RAP or Hip Hop music.

Yes they probably are idiots. But you keep mentioning rap and hip hop. look at the awards with the knife fight. Has that happened at a country awards? no. cause country singers don't have to tell you over and over in their songs how tough they are due to an inferiority complex. Some rap is cool,Young MC Bust a move,fantastic song. But most of it is garbage, by garbage. And no I don't like country. I would listen to rap before country, especially if they had a vocabulary that included words with more than 4 letters. I bought the Fast and the furiouse sound track. not one song could you play with your kids in the room. Only an udejucated Idiot would let their kids here that trash. Is it a anti black thing? No. I remember when blacks were doing most of the really good music.in the 50s 60s 70s, not any more. the morrallity level of their music went to hell in a hand basket. If people do not hang around hip hop lovers, and then they see on the new's that they can't even recognize each other with an award, without knifing each other. thats all the exposure they have, what are they supposed to think of hip hop. Cosby even understands where people like me are comming from. Asking black people why do you run aroung calling each other niggers? Or if you are a Doctor and your making statments like. You aint gettin better? or ax the receptionist foe dat.
Would you have confidence in a doctor who talks like that?
I met a guy on the ship in the Navy who happened to be black. He wanted out of the Navy. He was supposed to go before the captain and plead his case. His supervisor informed him, if you do not have a means of earning a living on the outside its over, case closed. His response was. " I can git money! I'll rob mutha fuckin 7 11s if I gots to, but I can git money!"

What the Hell?
Most whites are never gonna see that kind of attituid and the attitude of the average Rapper with anything but pitty and disgust. So stop sellin were not buying.
Am I a racist? No. I have educated black freinds and we think alike. I guess they sold out. or maybe they have moved on and are ready to get ahead and be civilized.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1138989/posts

http://shop.wnd.com/store/item.asp?D...0&ITEM_ID=1319

http://www.soundgenerator.com/news/i...articleid=4464
Some african americans are up to speed, we all can be. If we are careful who we let teach us and our children.

Go to a gun show in a white neighborhood. one cop 4000 peeps 6000 guns no trouble

Lable me how you will. I base my beliefs on fact and real statistics.

My town prodominatly white, 100 years with no murders.
over the last 2 years the demographics have changed from 33 % black to 66% black. this year 2 hommocides. Black guy walking home with groceries, car full of black guys drives by, shoots and kills him. WTF

Why? Cause Of their skin color? Of course not. Cause they are brain washed by these Rap losers.( again, I like some of it, if it is Civilized art.)

I do not understand why you would defend music that promotes killing. I listen to rock. When I hear an idiot singing about " being your back door man.
I turn the channel. I hear anti woman lyrics, Like "I want a woman who wont drive me crazy, i want a woman who knows the meaning of, hey hit the highway" I hit scan. Trashy people listen to trash. You are affected by what you listen to on a daily basis.

Crawl out of the gutter and join Civilization.
civ·i·li·za·tion

( P ) Pronunciation Key (s

v

-l

-z

sh

n)
n.

An advanced state of intellectual, cultural, and material development in human society, marked by progress in the arts and sciences, the extensive use of record-keeping, including writing, and the appearance of complex political and social institutions.

de·gen·er·ate

( P ) Pronunciation Key (d

-j

n

r-

t)
adj.

Having declined, as in function or nature, from a former or original state: a degenerate form of an ancient folk art.
Having fallen to an inferior or undesirable state, especially in mental or moral qualities.

In civilization you don't shoot people, or stab them. The vibe Awards sounds more like Degenerate.

Badda bing.
P.S.
Im Two thirds White and One third Minority.
So no race cards please.

cman · 12-01-2004, 07:55 PM

Beuller? Beuller? Anyone? Anyone?

cman · 12-01-2004, 08:37 PM

No snippy comebacks?

Digesting it?

Think i'm right?

WHAT UP DOG?

BoneCrusher · 12-01-2004, 08:58 PM

Well said Cman!

min0 lee · 12-01-2004, 09:36 PM

Nicely put.

cman · 12-01-2004, 09:37 PM

Thank you. Never guess I gots aGED wood ya?

cman · 12-01-2004, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by min0 lee

Nicely put.

Where has Max been? I kinda miss his, Cheerfully offensive remarks.

min0 lee · 12-01-2004, 09:59 PM

He's still in my closet....

It's time he comes out of the closet though...

BoneCrusher · 12-01-2004, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dg806

Roby said American prisons are full of good people who made bad decisions in a fit of rage.

This would apply to every criminal on the street then. People have to learn they can't do this................. period! That is what seperates decent people from the rest. They have the judgement to not do it.

DG nailed it down here very well.

People with privledge are not above the comon man in spite of their desire to be so. Artest beat down the wrong guy and did not even give a shit about that fact. His statement afterwords showed no remorse at all but rather offered justification as though it could and will happen again. He sould have been made an example of. If after he has shown he is not going to conduct himself as decent people do he should get the boot. Since he was not held accountable ... and no a 70 game slap on the wrist is not anything he actually cares about ... the people in charge of keeping him on the court should then be held responsible for his actions.

LAM · 12-01-2004, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoneCrusher

People with privledge are not above the comon man in spite of their desire to be so.

That is only part of the problem. People put these professional athletes on a pedestal and expect them to act differently than the average person. A lot of those guys are not that intelligent and people give them more credit than they deserve. I don't understand why people act so surprised when athletes/celebrates do these types of things, get arrested, etc. as if they are a special breed of humans that are above this sort of behavior.

cman · 12-02-2004, 03:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoneCrusher

DG nailed it down here very well.

People with privledge are not above the comon man in spite of their desire to be so. Artest beat down the wrong guy and did not even give a shit about that fact. His statement afterwords showed no remorse at all but rather offered justification as though it could and will happen again. He sould have been made an example of. If after he has shown he is not going to conduct himself as decent people do he should get the boot. Since he was not held accountable ... and no a 70 game slap on the wrist is not anything he actually cares about ... the people in charge of keeping him on the court should then be held responsible for his actions.

I would like to be the wrong guy that got pummled though.

$$$$$$$
Chaaaaaaaaachingggggggggggggg$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.:roc ker:

11-30-2004, 06:42 PM	#1
DFINEST She hasn't found me yet Join Date: May 2001 Location: Maryland Posts: 2,053	Ron Artest not alone...... Race, class changes dynamics of player-fan brawls Date: Tuesday, November 30, 2004 By: TRACIE POWELL, BlackAmericaWeb.com Cocky and foolish, Otto Blotz heckled loudly from the stands. Within minutes a player –cockier and bigger – charged into the bleachers and pummeled the spectator upside the head, jabs bounded off the fan’s face like a golf ball from a rock, reported The New York Times. The player wasn't Indiana Pacers forward Ron Artest. The year wasn't 2004. It was 1912, and the player who went after the heckler was Detroit Tiger baseball great Ty Cobb. Cobb, who was known as a bigot and as baseball's meanest player, clocked Blotz after he allegedly called him a half-nigger. Cobb's penalty – a $200 fine and an eight-day suspension – was considered severe for his day. Artest, however, faces a suspension for the rest of the season and a loss of $5 million for going into the stands after a fan who threw a drink on him. But while it is unclear whether black players who go after abusive fans face more severe penalties than white players who do the same thing, what is clear is that since Cobb's time, there have been numerous incidents in which players have left fields and courts to retaliate against rude fans in the stands. It was only in 2000, for example, when Los Angeles Dodgers coaches John Shelby and Rick Dempsey joined catcher Chad Kreuter and a slew of other Dodgers in going after Chicago Cubs fans at Wrigley Field who had been showering beer on them. Ultimately, three coaches were suspended for 24 games, while nine players were suspended for 60 games. But at least one expert said that economics and race play a part in the kind of fan rudeness that riled Artest. There is a growing economic chasm between the players – 90 percent of them extremely wealthy blacks – and fans who are mostly white and certainly not as rich, Peter Roby, Director of the Center for the Study of Sport in Society at Northeastern University in Massachusetts, told BlackAmericaWeb.com. "There’s just not as much in common with each other because the economics have gotten to the point where players no longer live in the community where the fans live, their kids no longer go to the same schools, and they no longer shop in the same grocery stores," Roby said. "And I think there’s some resentment on the part of fans with regard to that economic divide, especially those white fans that maybe feel like it’s not fair for a young, African American athlete to all of a sudden have all this kind of money. And in their view, flaunt that money and position by acting in ways that they don’t find acceptable.” Roby, who is black, said the players also feel that they don't have to answer to fans. "The players have gotten to a point where they’re so economically independent now, that they feel like they have the wherewithal to take matters into their own hands or lead their lives in ways that may not meet the expectations of the fans, because in their minds, they don’t need them," he said. "And that creates a recipe for the kinds of pent-up emotion and disregard that we saw on display in Detroit." Roby, however, believes the punishment meted out by National Basketball Association Commissioner David Stern is justified. "You have to send a strong message that that kind of behavior won’t be tolerated again and that it’s going to impact more than just yourself," he said. "I think the thing that people need to understand is that Ron Artest and his teammates put his team at an incredible disadvantage now for the rest of the season. So they’ve impacted the livelihood of the rest of their players, the franchise, and the fans." As much as some people might suggest that Artest was right in charging after the fan who hit him, Roby said at some point he should have thought about the consequences of his actions and how his family, teammates and the league itself would be impacted. Opinions vary on whether the response to the brawl was simply an overreaction to the fight and who is ultimately responsible. Some say Artest, others say the fan who threw the plastic cup at the player while he was down. But Jerry M. Lewis sees another culprit — the owners. Lewis, a professor of sociology at Kent State University in Ohio and author of the forthcoming book, “Fan Violence: An American Social Problem,” said while he doesn’t excuse their behavior, fans and players aren’t ultimately at fault. Owners typically lose money on sports teams, Lewis said, but ownership gives them status. To avoid losing more money than they’d like, owners sell hype and emotion to fill seats. "They should be selling great athletes, but they’re not," he said. "They sell excitement, they sell emotion. The owners hand out these wands that you wave to distract players when their shooting a free throw. They hand out cards that you hold up when a player is introduced, these cards are typically insulting. Owners like fights because fights draw crowds. But there’s no dimmer switch on emotion. They try and get people as hyped up and they’re selling this with the scoreboards and the music. Then they start wringing their hands when something like this happens." At least one owner is taking heed to the role they may play in creating an environment conducive to violence. An advertising campaign for the Charlotte Bobcats, the team owned by Black Entertainment Television founder Robert Johnson, could become a casualty of what happened between the Pacers and Pistons. The commercials were scheduled to begin last week, but the team’s president said a climate change has taken place and the franchise is reviewing a decision to run the ads, a spokesman announced last week. The television commercials feature a fiery Bobcats fan who appears around Charlotte with cardboard cutouts representing star players on opposing teams, including Kobe Bryant, Yao Ming and Shaquille O'Neal. Under the care of the character, however, the cutouts are plagued by various exaggerated acts of mayhem that render them smashed, wrecked, soaked, buried or ruined. The O'Neal cutout falls into a barbecue grill at a cookout and is incinerated. Johnson’s office did not immediately return a phone call from BlackAmericaWeb.com to say whether a final decision on the commercials had been reached. Player-fan violence is the rarest form of sports violence, said Lewis who has studied sports for years and is a fan. The most common form of violence takes place while fans are celebrating, most times don’t involve an opponent, and results in vandalism. The third kind of fan violence involves fans fighting fans. Historically, most fan violence takes place at hockey and baseball games. But violence was very prevalent at basketball games in the 1970s, that is until Kermit Washington of the Los Angeles Lakers nearly destroyed Rudy Tomjanovich's face with a devastating punch. Tomjanovich, of the Houston Rockets, suffered fractures of the face and skull. His nose was broken, and he suffered a separated upper jaw, a concussion and lacerations around his mouth. He was leaking spinal fluid into his nose. He recovered and won a $3.2 million lawsuit. Washington was fined $10,000 and suspended for 60 days (a loss of about $75,000 in pay), and saw his career plummet. He played with four teams over the next five years and retired in 1982 at age 30. And, at least for a while, fights at NBA games were virtually nonexistent. Roby said American prisons are full of good people who made bad decisions in a fit of rage. But he and Lewis both agree that the Pistons-Pacers event is a rare, isolated incident. "There are plenty of players who are law abiding, respectful citizens of their communities," Roby said. "And I don’t want people to lose sight of that. This isn’t a nightly occurrence on an NBA arena where players are going after fans. But it is still something that needs people’s attention."
	Drama is the result of an attempt to find wholeness & success in the midst of forces that have been birthed in chaos and nurtured in confusion. -- No More Drama

11-30-2004, 07:14 PM	#2
Mudge Pizza the Hut Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 23,075 Photos: 1	In the paper on monday was an article about a coach for a kids soccer team, who apparently was sneaking in older players and not providing proof of age upon request. So the coach kicked a ref in the face because he was upset about being asked to prove the childrens ages, which they all have to do
	Kinesiology Vote @ Top 25 Deads Comp Bench Motivation Bench form MaxCalc Charles Poliquin When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. Lao-Tzu I don't know any sources so don't ask - thanks

12-01-2004, 01:28 AM	#5
cman Disabled Vet Elite Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Atl GA Posts: 1,077 Photos: 3	The race card is always gonna get played, weather it applies or not. Shamefull. But I say, you throw something at a player, or player throws somthing at a fan, its assult. The fan should get the same fine as artest. If he can't afford it, than drop artest,s fine to what the fan can afford. You pick a fight, you could get your Face punched. You get what you get, stop crying. The By stander that got hit, Let him go to court or Artest can settle. But I think the fans need to understand they should respect these guy's, it's why you are there. To watch the best of the best, perform for you. If the players are fined so bad they are affraid to defend themselves, the fans will do more. I say a fan throws something at you, run up in the stands and stomp a mudd hole in their A*! Last edited by cman : 12-01-2004 at 02:22 AM.*
	Heavily medicated for your safety. Medicated Not medicated Age 40, 5'11" 210lb's

12-01-2004, 08:24 AM	#6
dg806 Guardian of The Homeland Super Moderator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Charlotte NC Posts: 17,443	Roby said American prisons are full of good people who made bad decisions in a fit of rage. This would apply to every criminal on the street then. People have to learn they can't do this................. period! That is what seperates decent people from the rest. They have the judgement to not do it.
	www.sbmuscle.com

12-01-2004, 07:55 PM	#13
cman Disabled Vet Elite Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Atl GA Posts: 1,077 Photos: 3	Beuller? Beuller? Anyone? Anyone?
	Heavily medicated for your safety. Medicated Not medicated Age 40, 5'11" 210lb's

12-01-2004, 01:00 AM	#4
Little Wing SEMPER~FIDELIS Elite Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: United States Posts: 21,684 Blog Entries: 1 Photos: 191	It was 1912, and the player who went after the heckler was Detroit Tiger baseball great Ty Cobb.

12-01-2004, 09:43 AM	#7
Big Smoothy Windy City Elite Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Chicago Posts: 2,949	The guy who threw the drink on him was a coward who deserved a smaking. But for Artest, who gives a sh*t. He's a multi-millionaire who would be the world's tallest janitor if it wasn't for the NBA. Who cares?

12-01-2004, 08:37 PM	#14
cman Disabled Vet Elite Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Atl GA Posts: 1,077 Photos: 3	No snippy comebacks? Digesting it? Think i'm right? WHAT UP DOG?
	Heavily medicated for your safety. Medicated Not medicated Age 40, 5'11" 210lb's

12-01-2004, 08:58 PM	#15
BoneCrusher Lift or Die Elite Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Austin Texas Posts: 8,580	Well said Cman!

12-01-2004, 09:36 PM	#16
min0 lee Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: The Bronx, NYC Posts: 33,816 Blog Entries: 3 Photos: 542	Nicely put.
	How To Do The Perfect Bench Press Rep Bodybuilding and Lifting Weights, the Difference ironmagazine-frapper BONECRUSHER '08

12-01-2004, 09:37 PM	#17
cman Disabled Vet Elite Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Atl GA Posts: 1,077 Photos: 3	Thank you. Never guess I gots aGED wood ya?
	Heavily medicated for your safety. Medicated Not medicated Age 40, 5'11" 210lb's

12-01-2004, 09:59 PM	#19
min0 lee Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: The Bronx, NYC Posts: 33,816 Blog Entries: 3 Photos: 542	He's still in my closet.... It's time he comes out of the closet though...
	How To Do The Perfect Bench Press Rep Bodybuilding and Lifting Weights, the Difference ironmagazine-frapper BONECRUSHER '08