I guess "RAP" music caused this....

**DFINEST** · 12-09-2004, 05:21 AM

Five Killed, Two Hurt in Nightclub Shooting
Thursday, December 09, 2004

COLUMBUS, Ohio — A man charged onstage at a packed heavy metal show and opened fire on the band and the crowd, killing at least four people and wounding two others before an arriving police officer gunned him down, authorities said.

The band Damageplan (search) had just begun their first song Wednesday night at the Alrosa Villa when the man opened fire, first targeting guitarist "Dimebag" Darrel Abbott (search), shooting him multiple times at point-blank range, a witness said.

Police would not confirm the identities of the victims.

Abbott, one of metal's top guitarists, and his brother, Damageplan drummer Vinnie Paul Abbott, were original members of thrash rock pioneers Pantera (search), one of the most popular metal bands of the early 1990s.

The witness, 22-year-old Chris Couch, said he was standing about 30 feet away from the stage when he noticed a man wearing a hooded sweatshirt and hockey jersey walk up to the stage, followed by a bouncer and another club employee.

The man in the jersey climbed onto the stage, started yelling and shot the guitarist five or six times at close range, Couch said. He said the gunman also shot a bouncer who pulled him off the musician.

Columbus police spokesman Sgt. Brent Mull said that after shooting at members of the band, the gunman fired into the crowd. Mull said a police officer who arrived shortly after the shooting began shot and killed the gunman.

"If the officer wasn't as close as he was, I think this would have been a lot worse," he said. "It was a chaotic scene, just a horrific scene."

Mull said more people could have been shot and left the scene before authorities arrived.

After the shooting began, Couch and a friend headed for the exit along with a tide of hundreds of fans.

"It was definitely a grudge. It was against something," Couch said.

Amanda Stankus, 19, who attended the show with Couch, said she initially thought the shooting was part of the show. "I just saw the guitarist fall down, and we decided to get out of there," she said.

Other members of Damageplan include vocalist Patrick Lachman and bass player Bob Zilla, according to the band's Web site.

A message left with Atlantic Records, which oversees the record label on which Damageplan records, was not immediately returned.

Damageplan's Web site said Darrel and Vinnie Abbott grew up in the Dallas-Fort Worth, Texas area where their father Jerry Abbott owned a recording studio. Another entry on the site lists the elder Abbott as a country-western songwriter.

Telephone numbers for both Darrell and Jerry Abbott are unlisted and could not be reached early Thursday by The Associated Press.

Pantera, known for its brutally hard, fast and aggressive sound, recorded four albums between 1990 and 1996. They attracted a massive cult following and the band's third release, "Far Beyond Driven," debuted at No. 1 in 1994, surprising chart-watchers and critics alike.

**DFINEST** · 12-09-2004, 05:29 AM

For all of the people who think "RAP" music
causes all violence and anti-social behavior....
BLAMING "RAP" music for causing all violence
and anti - social behavior.....
then what caused this ignorant idiot to do
such an horrible act ?

IT WASN'T the "RAP" music!

**Luke9583** · 12-09-2004, 05:32 AM

NO DFINEST, Mortal Kombat caused this one. Pull all the video games off the shelves

**min0 lee** · 12-09-2004, 06:04 AM

I bet you the shooter was listening to rap.

**min0 lee** · 12-09-2004, 06:13 AM

I used to listen to rap when it first came out in the mid 1970's and I used to enjoy. Now...I don't know, I like only a couple of them. I don't think it causes violence but the image they potray is negative.

**iMan323** · 12-09-2004, 06:19 AM

This is from VH1 Website:

"Damageplan had just begun their first song in front of several hundred at Alrosa Villa when the gunman jumped onstage, made a comment about Pantera's breakup, and began firing at close range into Darrell's body, shooting him several times before opening fire on the crowd."

He sounds like a digruntled PanterA fan going postal .... not cool.

**Luke9583** · 12-09-2004, 06:29 AM

That's disgusting......

**Newt** · 12-09-2004, 09:09 AM

Originally Posted by DFINEST

For all of the people who think "RAP" music
causes all violence and anti-social behavior....
BLAMING "RAP" music for causing all violence
and anti - social behavior.....
then what caused this ignorant idiot to do
such an horrible act ?

IT WASN'T the "RAP" music!

It's not the "RAP" music, it's the dumb asses who listen to it!

**Flex** · 12-09-2004, 09:19 AM

Originally Posted by Luke9583

NO DFINEST, Mortal Kombat caused this one. Pull all the video games off the shelves

are you sure it wasn't Grand Theft Auto?

Or perhaps it was G-Unit?

or maybe the guy was a big Barry Bonds fan and had roid rage

**Goodfella9783** · 12-09-2004, 09:33 AM

You can't blame Rap music for violence, that's just ignorant. The only people you can blame are the shooters themselves.

**DFINEST** · 12-09-2004, 09:41 AM

Originally Posted by Newt

It's not the "RAP" music, it's the dumb asses who listen to it!

Well is this guy a dumb ass?

What caused his rage; was it "RAP" although
he was at a ROCK concert?

WAS it the ROCK music?

**DFINEST** · 12-09-2004, 09:45 AM

Originally Posted by Goodfella9783

You can't blame Rap music for violence, that's just ignorant. The only people you can blame are the shooters themselves.

AMEN....
That's exactly my point here...

Some members here are quick to blame "RAP" music for
every social ill BUT when a ignorant act
happens at a "ROCK" concert,
those same members have a closed mouth
all of a sudden.

I guess it was the "ROCK" music

**Newt** · 12-09-2004, 09:49 AM

Originally Posted by DFINEST

Well is this guy a dumb ass?

What caused his rage; was it "RAP" although
he was at a ROCK concert?

WAS it the ROCK music?

I can read ya know! If I said it wasn't the rap music but the dumb asses listening to it, I'll let you answer your own question. Oh, and with replies like that one you are making my point for me.

**DFINEST** · 12-09-2004, 09:56 AM

Originally Posted by Newt

I can read ya know! If I said it wasn't the rap music but the dumb asses listening to it, I'll let you answer your own question. Oh, and with replies like that one you are making my point for me.

I never questioned your ability to read....

No one is a DUMB ASS just because they choose
to listen to music that YOU don't like...

**Newt** · 12-09-2004, 10:01 AM

Originally Posted by DFINEST

I never questioned your ability to read....

No one is a DUMB ASS just because they choose
to listen to music that YOU don't like...

I totally agree with you. I'm trying to say that it doesn't matter what kind of music a person listens too because it is the dumb asses, your words not mine, that do stupid shit. I don't think you're stupid for listening to rap music. I don't thing you're stupid at all. I just don't think you were understanding what I was trying to say.

**DFINEST** · 12-09-2004, 10:08 AM

Originally Posted by Newt

I totally agree with you. I'm trying to say that it doesn't matter what kind of music a person listens too because it is the dumb asses, your words not mine, that do stupid shit. I don't think you're stupid for listening to rap music. I don't thing you're stupid at all. I just don't think you were understanding what I was trying to say.

I never called anyone a dumb ass
AND just so that you know, I
don't have a beef with you....

I was asking questions for the members here
who assert that "RAP" music causes violence in some venues
but at a rck venue, those same members have nothing
to say.

**BoneCrusher** · 12-09-2004, 10:10 AM

Sorry but I see no connection what-so-ever to rap. Why start this thread about rap not being at the center of this disaster in metal music? They are not related. I understand you were trying to make a statement that rap gets a bad rap ... but this has nothing to do with rap music.

**shutupntra1n** · 12-09-2004, 10:13 AM

I grew up on Hot 97 (97.1) for whomever is in the NY area. Hot 97, founders with Angie Martinez, Ed Lover/Dr. Dre, Funk Flex and Star and Buckwild... One of the most well known Hip Hop radio stations in the US. I still listen to some hip hop but I am so much more selective. You can't take anything they say seriously anymore. Most, not all, but most songs are about the same shit over and over. It's not even a debatable issue. Most music is crappy and pointless now a days. It's not just hip hop. The reason why hip hop sticks out the most and causes the most controversy is partly due to it being a minority dominated and instigated music genre... not that white folk don't participate or enjoy it, but it is triggered at minorities and that "culture" and that "culture" needs to break out of so many stereotypes even today in 2004 between low income and education, crime and poverty and when they are in need of breaking the old habits, the last thing they need is several wealthy, famous, rich minorities singing about shooting and sex all day... Not that all the music is about that, but a lot of it is, and these messages are crippling a society of people that are still struggling to better their culture as it is.

**Newt** · 12-09-2004, 10:13 AM

Originally Posted by DFINEST

I never called anyone a dumb ass
AND just so that you know, I
don't have a beef with you....

I was asking questions for the members here
who assert that "RAP" music causes violence in some venues
but at a rck venue, those same members have nothing
to say.

Got ya man, we're cool. I do listen to more rock than rap but I see your point. IMO anyone in a mosh pit deserves what ever happens to them. These people are dumb asses, those are my words! lol

**DFINEST** · 12-09-2004, 10:19 AM

Originally Posted by BoneCrusher

Sorry but I see no connection what-so-ever to rap. Why start this thread about rap not being at the center of this disaster in metal music? They are not related. I understand you were trying to make a statement that rap gets a bad rap ... but this has nothing to do with rap music.

The statement I was making is this....

The Ron Artest incident was attributed to the
NBA's alleged embrace of the RAP/Hip Hop culture...

The Vibe awards incident was attributed to the Rap/Hip Hop culture....

Where are those same people who've made te aforementioned
assertions and WHY aren't they attributing this violent
action to the ROCK/METAL culture?

The violence that occurred is not because of the
ROCK/METAL culture, it's because of the ignorant
actions of the shooter....

The RAP/Hip Hop culture doesn't get this benefit that
the deviant individual acted regardless of what
he/she was listening to.

Like you've stated, this disaster is not relevant to
RAP/Hip Hop as I was being sarcastic

**DFINEST** · 12-09-2004, 10:22 AM

Originally Posted by shutupntra1n

I grew up on Hot 97 (97.1) for whomever is in the NY area. Hot 97, founders with Angie Martinez, Ed Lover/Dr. Dre, Funk Flex and Star and Buckwild... One of the most well known Hip Hop radio stations in the US. I still listen to some hip hop but I am so much more selective. You can't take anything they say seriously anymore. Most, not all, but most songs are about the same shit over and over. It's not even a debatable issue. Most music is crappy and pointless now a days. It's not just hip hop. The reason why hip hop sticks out the most and causes the most controversy is partly due to it being a minority dominated and instigated music genre... not that white folk don't participate or enjoy it, but it is triggered at minorities and that "culture" and that "culture" needs to break out of so many stereotypes even today in 2004 between low income and education, crime and poverty and when they are in need of breaking the old habits, the last thing they need is several wealthy, famous, rich minorities singing about shooting and sex all day... Not that all the music is about that, but a lot of it is, and these messages are crippling a society of people that are still struggling to better their culture as it is.

Well said

**DFINEST** · 12-09-2004, 10:29 AM

Originally Posted by Newt

Got ya man, we're cool. I do listen to more rock than rap but I see your point. IMO anyone in a mosh pit deserves what ever happens to them. These people are dumb asses, those are my words! lol

I listen to some of everything BUT I hate
the RAP music that is filled with the excessive
violence, expletives, and glorifying of criminal behavior

**Mudge** · 12-09-2004, 10:33 AM

Originally Posted by DFINEST

I listen to some of everything BUT I hate
the RAP music that is filled with the excessive
violence, expletives, and glorifying of criminal behavior

But but but... we dont need dem hoes!

**Mudge** · 12-09-2004, 10:36 AM

Originally Posted by DFINEST

The violence that occurred is not because of the
ROCK/METAL culture, it's because of the ignorant
actions of the shooter....

There are more love songs than anything else. If songs could
make you do something we'd all love one another.

Frank Zappa

I agree, we all make choices in life on our own. Yes we are influenced but we still have choices, placing blame is weakness of mind and character, but thats humanity for ya.

Video games don't affect kids. If Pac-Man affected us as kids we'd all be walking around in dark rooms eating magic pills while listening to repetitive electronic music.

-Karen Price, Nintendo Representative

**BoneCrusher** · 12-09-2004, 10:37 AM

You were to quick to fire this one out there though ... we don't know what flavor of music the dude had in his CD wallet yet. He may have had like 2 Pantera CD's and 987 Rap CD's. He probably felt that Pantera was a threat to his favorite Rap "Artest"s and decided to end any chance of their reunion by poping a cap in they asses. This is another example of the hip-hop culture involving innocent bystanders in their turf-wars.

I'm just kidding D ... don't kill me man. The dude was almost certainly a white guy with a two digit IQ ... and worse a Democrat to boot. As I stated I got your point about rap being bashed all the time. But the differances are huge here. This guy was a whacko just like the dude that killed John Lennon was a whacko. Artest going public with a non-appology and a pitch to his new CD drew his culture into the spotlight. He put his lifestyle choices out there and claimed that it could happen again, that sometimes things just happen. I guess what I am saying is to me Artest but the blemish on the hip-hop culture by acting like a remorseless thug as he displayed his CD.

**DFINEST** · 12-09-2004, 10:44 AM

I hear you BC.....
you know YOU'RE ok in my book bro'

**shutupntra1n** · 12-09-2004, 10:47 AM

Originally Posted by Mudge

But but but... we dont need dem hoes!

You are usually serious in your well educated posts then you say something like this and it makes me laugh my a$$ off....

How about - "I got 99 problems but my diet aint one... er umm a bitch aint one"

**BoneCrusher** · 12-09-2004, 10:48 AM

You too mayn!!

**Goodfella9783** · 12-09-2004, 11:18 AM

While on the topic of Rap...I've always listened to Hip-Hop/Rap Music. Not all of this type of music focuses on Sex, $$$, Cars, Murder, etc. (not that anyone said that)...But I agree with everyone who says that a lot of rap is the same..all commercial Bull%$@*. Try out some people like Talib Kweli, Mos Def, Common, The Roots, Jurassic 5...This is my opinion of Hip Hop and a lot of it sends a positive message to its listeners. Don't be fooled by stuff thats played on the radio. Its not the only music out there..

**Mudge** · 12-09-2004, 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by shutupntra1n

You are usually serious in your well educated posts then you say something like this and it makes me laugh my a$$ off....

My language is pretty dry but really I'm just a jackass, It all depends on the mood and topic at hand.

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