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Old 12-23-2004, 03:08 PM   #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vieope
Yes I do. Methane, nitrogen and electric discharge did the job billions of years ago.
give me proof.



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Old 12-23-2004, 03:11 PM   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by busyLivin
give me proof.
Hundreds of science books and Titan. It may not be the exact truth but it is far more plausible than some made up God.
Nature and math are beautiful.
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Old 12-23-2004, 03:14 PM   #123
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Originally Posted by bkc
Better yet you tell me one thing that can't...
C'mon bkc ... ... you have better than that I'm sure.
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Old 12-23-2004, 03:14 PM   #124
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In my science books, matter, time, & space don't "appear" out of nowhere Science can't explain life. They never will be able to. They can't explain how a simple rock came out of nowhere, much less a living organism.



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Old 12-23-2004, 03:17 PM   #125
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my nutrition timing is screwed up now.. I took the creatine & protein 15 minutes ago & I should be lifting now



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Old 12-23-2004, 03:19 PM   #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by busyLivin
In my science books, matter, time, & space don't "appear" out of nowhere Science can't explain life. They never will be able to.
Science is based on facts, a theory is valid until it doesnīt go wrong, when it can be proved by evidence. Religion is so successful because it works with the subjective world, not the objective world.
We canīt explain life yet but we will, accepting religion is just giving up the search.
IMO
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Old 12-23-2004, 03:20 PM   #127
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Originally Posted by busyLivin
my nutrition timing is screwed up now.. I took the creatine & protein 15 minutes ago & I should be lifting now
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Old 12-23-2004, 03:21 PM   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vieope
Science is based on facts, a theory is valid until it doesnīt go wrong, when it can be proved by evidence. Religion is so successful because it works with the subjective world, not the objective world.
We canīt explain life yet but we will, accepting religion is just giving up the search.
IMO
no doubt... doesn't make it wrong, though.



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Old 12-23-2004, 03:21 PM   #129
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Does that make you feel better? Believing there is no God? No consequence for your actions?



" I cannot be defeated; the only thing that can defeat me is my mind."

In life, if you don't stand for something,
You will fall for everything.
And if you keep trying to be everything you're not,
You'll end up missing out on
Everything you were meant to be.
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Old 12-23-2004, 03:23 PM   #130
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Old 12-23-2004, 03:24 PM   #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by busyLivin
no doubt... doesn't make it wrong, though.
Doesnīt make christianity wrong? Well it does because it is such a simplistic theory based on the imagination of bored men that didnīt have cable tv or videogames to fry their brains. So they came up with a cute story.
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Old 12-23-2004, 03:24 PM   #132
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Vieope tonight...



the dark blue fades away.. to a more heavenly color



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Old 12-23-2004, 03:27 PM   #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Candy
Does that make you feel better? Believing there is no God? No consequence for your actions?
Two separate subjects. Altthogh most people think that atheists are evil because they canīt go to hell, I think that God forgiving anybody would be just as bad.
I am a good person, I donīt need mythology to respect others. I have ethics although I donīt tip.
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Old 12-23-2004, 03:28 PM   #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vieope
Doesnīt make christianity wrong? Well it does because it is such a simplistic theory based on the imagination of bored men that didnīt have cable tv or videogames to fry their brains. So they came up with a cute story.
The gospels revealed!

I said just because religion in general isn't bothered with the scientific facts doesn't make it wrong.

Christianity is another topic.



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Old 12-23-2004, 03:28 PM   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by busyLivin
Vieope tonight...



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Old 12-23-2004, 03:31 PM   #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by busyLivin
I said just because religion in general isn't bothered with the scientific facts doesn't make it wrong.
It does make it not correct since we live in a world that follow standards and theories. What is that madonna song?
"Living in a material world
And I am a material girl
You know that we are living in a material world
And I am a material girl"
That is not a very masculine argument.
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Old 12-23-2004, 03:35 PM   #137
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yes, but those standards & theories were created by God, and have always functioned with that premise. God doesn't have to "break" a rule.. the rule works with Him.

Like you said, you're battling on the physical world I battling on a whole other playing field. We'll never come to a consensus!

anyway, I'll be back in about an hour. gotta lift & I think min0 needs a popcorn refill



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Old 12-23-2004, 03:39 PM   #138
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Bring Jesus with you if you find him around. Come on, he starts this and doesnīt say a word. It is not fair.
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Old 12-23-2004, 03:49 PM   #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vieope
You wonīget out of this with reverse psychology.
Tell me just one.
Vieope the life of Christ is better documented than any man whom has ever lived. He is in the writtings of Ceasar, kings, rulers, etc. that have abosolutely nothing to do with the bible or Christianity... OK, now that we've established that He existed as a man let's move on...

The bible doesn't even begin to have comparisions with books, such as LOTR. While LOTR is entertaining it's a story... The story's of the bible are actual events that have take place. Things such as Sodom and Gamorrah have been found...(aka the Dead Sea) among other events... These seemingly unbelieveable events are the works of a soveirgn God. The fall of empires have also been told in the bible long before they have taken place. Fact is everything the bible speaks of has happened or being set in motion now... The fact that we're having this conversation says a lot. I don't have the full knowledge of the word but what I've been through tells me that God is real... Please let me explain.

I was raised in church but I was never really taught what life was all about... I had the seriously wrong impression that if you do good you'll go to heaven. Do bad and you'll go to hell. While somewhat true this is far from what life is made up of. In my eyes life is a lesson. A lesson that you more so than anyone control. A lesson that you'll write with your decisions and a lesson you'll control in the aspect of what you'll learn... We are given test and trials, some more than others, but all these things are meant to enable us not brake us... See even the Devil himself was once an angel the bible says. He fell into sin and in pride he tried to overthrow God Himself. Oops... Seeing as how God created him and yet he turned to bite the hand that feed him life God cast him down. Why here with us? Good question. Why do we pay for the sins of others? Even better question... I believe this may help explain it. We were given the power of free will. The ability to decide for ourselves. As I've already explain the Devil was a highly regarded angel and in his free will he chose wickedness. Maybe this life is to purify us. To test us now. Choose this day who you will follow sort of thing. If everything was always perfect then where is the test really?

Now, my experience... I enjoyed the things of the world for quite some time. I was raised going to church but lacked understanding... To make a long story short life became heavy and filled with burdens. Burdens I had placed on my shoulders do to my decisions... In this weight depression weighted me down. I did my best to fill that void but I always needed more... Everything and everyone that surrounded me seemed to seek my demise. In my pain I had no where else to turn besides the God that I had know as a child. In my broken state for some reason He heard my crys. Things began to change. Not my situations but my outlook. I knew everything going on around me when I should have had no way of knowing... He told me. I knew the intentions and motives of others like they told me themselves. Honest to God it was as if I knew their thoughts like they were written down for me... These things I never knew were possible and wouldn't have believed otherwise. I thought I was going insane and I had plenty of reasons to do so, but I wasn't... God was touching my life for some unknown reason. I asked of Him,"Why Lord are you helping me... If these things that I hear are real confirm them to me." Exactly that would happen. Time after time He would confirm what I was told through the words and actions of others. It was as if it was written to happen. Perfection... I hadn't gone to church in six-seven years and the first time I walked back in those doors the message was for me. The pastor spoke of how he had wanted to preach this message for several weeks and the Holy Spirit wouldn't allow him to. All the while he was preaching it was my exact life and experience that he spoke of. He stated that this message is for one somebody. That's if that someone were to accept the call of God that all that had been taken from me shall be restored. ALL... Through all that I've typed it was the Holy Spirit that directed me. He is the One that helped me out of all my troubles and opened my eyes in a spiritual manner... It was as if I were a character in the bible. You say you want your proof... so do I... When my life is restored I'll be here for you... Nevertheless I know He is real. I've felt Him, fell Him now, and have seen His helping hand...



May the Lord Jesus Christ bless those who bless me as I gladly accept their blessings, and curse those who curse me all the while protecting me for any evils. In Christ name, amen...
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Old 12-23-2004, 04:10 PM   #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bkc
Vieope the life of Christ is better documented than any man whom has ever lived. He is in the writtings of Ceasar, kings, rulers, etc. that have abosolutely nothing to do with the bible or Christianity... OK, now that we've established that He existed as a man let's move on...

The bible doesn't even begin to have comparisions with books, such as LOTR. While LOTR is entertaining it's a story... The story's of the bible are actual events that have take place. Things such as Sodom and Gamorrah have been found...(aka the Dead Sea) among other events... These seemingly unbelieveable events are the works of a soveirgn God. The fall of empires have also been told in the bible long before they have taken place. Fact is everything the bible speaks of has happened or being set in motion now... The fact that we're having this conversation says a lot. I don't have the full knowledge of the word but what I've been through tells me that God is real... Please let me explain.

I was raised in church but I was never really taught what life was all about... I had the seriously wrong impression that if you do good you'll go to heaven. Do bad and you'll go to hell. While somewhat true this is far from what life is made up of. In my eyes life is a lesson. A lesson that you more so than anyone control. A lesson that you'll write with your decisions and a lesson you'll control in the aspect of what you'll learn... We are given test and trials, some more than others, but all these things are meant to enable us not brake us... See even the Devil himself was once an angel the bible says. He fell into sin and in pride he tried to overthrow God Himself. Oops... Seeing as how God created him and yet he turned to bite the hand that feed him life God cast him down. Why here with us? Good question. Why do we pay for the sins of others? Even better question... I believe this may help explain it. We were given the power of free will. The ability to decide for ourselves. As I've already explain the Devil was a highly regarded angel and in his free will he chose wickedness. Maybe this life is to purify us. To test us now. Choose this day who you will follow sort of thing. If everything was always perfect then where is the test really?

Now, my experience... I enjoyed the things of the world for quite some time. I was raised going to church but lacked understanding... To make a long story short life became heavy and filled with burdens. Burdens I had placed on my shoulders do to my decisions... In this weight depression weighted me down. I did my best to fill that void but I always needed more... Everything and everyone that surrounded me seemed to seek my demise. In my pain I had no where else to turn besides the God that I had know as a child. In my broken state for some reason He heard my crys. Things began to change. Not my situations but my outlook. I knew everything going on around me when I should have had no way of knowing... He told me. I knew the intentions and motives of others like they told me themselves. Honest to God it was as if I knew their thoughts like they were written down for me... These things I never knew were possible and wouldn't have believed otherwise. I thought I was going insane and I had plenty of reasons to do so, but I wasn't... God was touching my life for some unknown reason. I asked of Him,"Why Lord are you helping me... If these things that I hear are real confirm them to me." Exactly that would happen. Time after time He would confirm what I was told through the words and actions of others. It was as if it was written to happen. Perfection... I hadn't gone to church in six-seven years and the first time I walked back in those doors the message was for me. The pastor spoke of how he had wanted to preach this message for several weeks and the Holy Spirit wouldn't allow him to. All the while he was preaching it was my exact life and experience that he spoke of. He stated that this message is for one somebody. That's if that someone were to accept the call of God that all that had been taken from me shall be restored. ALL... Through all that I've typed it was the Holy Spirit that directed me. He is the One that helped me out of all my troubles and opened my eyes in a spiritual manner... It was as if I were a character in the bible. You say you want your proof... so do I... When my life is restored I'll be here for you... Nevertheless I know He is real. I've felt Him, fell Him now, and have seen His helping hand...
Ok I give you that, Jesus existed, it is a good argument that others had written about him. I consider him no more than a "successful" philosopher though.

What you experienced there was not God, Jesus or the power of christianity, it was self-awareness. When you start feeling somethings that you canīt describe until now, it is easier to run for the more simple and socially accepted version, God.
Life can be pretty damn difficult but humans are great and so far better than anything. Nothing can stop humanity and our creativity. We are so cool.

I do appreciate that you took some time to share your experience.
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Old 12-23-2004, 04:12 PM   #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vieope
Ok I give you that, Jesus existed, it is a good argument that others had written about him. I consider him no more than a "successful" philosopher though.

What you experienced there was not God, Jesus or the power of christianity, it was self-awareness. When you start feeling somethings that you canīt describe until now, it is easier to run for the more simple and socially accepted version, God.
Life can be pretty damn difficult but humans are great and so far better than anything. Nothing can stop humanity and our creativity. We are so cool.

I do appreciate that you took some time to share your experience.
I can't possibly do what I experienced any justice, but I know what self awareness is and that was much much more than what I or my self awareness could ever be... Thanks for reading it. It's food for thought...



May the Lord Jesus Christ bless those who bless me as I gladly accept their blessings, and curse those who curse me all the while protecting me for any evils. In Christ name, amen...
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Old 12-23-2004, 04:15 PM   #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bkc
I can't possibly do what I experienced any justice, but I know what self awareness is and that was much much more than what I or my self awareness could ever be... Thanks for reading it. It's food for thought...
So letīs get together and go to a satanic church to see "what the hell" do they talk about there?
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Old 12-23-2004, 04:20 PM   #143
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So letīs get together and go to a satanic church to see "what the hell" do they talk about there?
I've dated a few witches... I already know... I'll pass, but enjoy.



May the Lord Jesus Christ bless those who bless me as I gladly accept their blessings, and curse those who curse me all the while protecting me for any evils. In Christ name, amen...
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Old 12-23-2004, 04:21 PM   #144
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Old 12-23-2004, 04:22 PM   #145
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May the Lord Jesus Christ bless those who bless me as I gladly accept their blessings, and curse those who curse me all the while protecting me for any evils. In Christ name, amen...
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