John H.

I have always believed that "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure" because IT IS and IS proven time and time again.

I have no use for terrorists and no one can "wait" until they "get here" to do something about it. For sure. You want to fight them on THEIR turf. But the BEST PREVENTION is NOT getting onto a situation that would cause these people to have us in their sights in the first place. You also MUST UNDERSTAND what it IS that causes them to do the things they do in the first place ACCURATELY so you know what their "beef" is and maybe figure out how to settle that for the benefit of all people. A terrorist is someone who has been pushed or pushes someone to the brink of extremism. Finding out TRULY WHY is paramount.

Also, putting all our "eggs in one basket" is just asking for trouble. This country needs to diversify, needs to produce its own products with its own people here in this country. This country (USA) MUST BECOME energy SELF-SUFFICIENT. We must realize an unlimited source of energy that is inexpensive.

There is nothing wrong with helping others but you can never give it all away. We need to help those of us IN THIS COUNTRY that need help first.

There is nothing wrong with free-trade as long as that IS what it is - trade between people EQUALLY, NOT one-sided.

Take Care, John H.

DOMS

"Sucking off the oil supply"? What is that supposed to mean? That the world is stealing the oil from the Middle East? The word you're looking for is "selling". The largest economies in the Middle East get the majority of their money by selling oil. What else should they do with it? You may find this hard to believe but some people like to sells things to get money. Yeah, I know, it's a radical way of thinking...

So again, who precisely is making all of the money? Who, John?

Because the Middle East was a haven of love, caring, and understanding before that.

DOMS

I pretty much agree with this post.

John H.

Hi Cfs,

I was using the term "sucking off the oil supply" as a way of describing how it is being consumed at a rapid pace - certainly a hell of a lot faster than it can be made. In the last 100 years or so - because of greed - the world has wasted so damn much of the supply of oil in a "nano-second of time" compared to what it takes to make the stuff. Mother Nature takes a long time to produce this stuff naturally and Man has just "sucked it up" as if there is a limitless supply and couldn't care less.

I have no problem with people making a profit - or money or whatever - as long as it is done without any harm to others or the environment. Greed often takes over when anyone speaks of someone "making money". It is almost always at someone else's expense. BIG TIME!

Take Care, John H.

brogers

Rich, you rule, you remind me of myself even though I'm only 18.

As for social security privatization. You all forget one of the biggest benefits of it! The accounts could be passed down to heirs if you die. A family shouldn't lose the thousands of dollars that a relative put into social security and never drew out if he/she passes away.

Additionally, social security was never intended to be the "retirement plan" it has become.

To quote Ronald Reagan: "Government is not the solution to our problems, It is our problem."

brogers

Speaking of not looking at perspectives? How about some basic economics pal? A "living wage" combined with less unemployment. Haha. Your knowledge of economics is just as bad as your grammar dude. Rambling doesn't help prove your invald and contradicting points either.

busyLivin

class Liberalism
{
public void main(){
while (1 != 2)
{ Bitch(); Moan(); BlameBush(); }}
}

Rich46yo

"""""""" You also MUST UNDERSTAND what it IS that causes them to do the things they do in the first place ACCURATELY so you know what their "beef" is and maybe figure out how to settle that for the benefit of all people. A terrorist is someone who has been pushed or pushes someone to the brink of extremism. Finding out TRULY WHY is paramount. """""""""""

Oh horseshit! Who cares what their "root causes" are? Who gives a shit what their "beef" is? We are always going to have a criminal element and Political extremists. This "root cause" crap is exactly the kind of "high thinking" that landed us in this boat in the first place.

It doesn't matter what they think, what created them, if they were tittie fed,or, if they had nurtured childhoods. What matters is that we are either going to kill them or they are going to kill us. I mean did we ask these "high questions" with the Nazis?, the Japs?, the commies?, or any other enemy we've fought? Who gives a shit what created them? What matters is that we anhiliate them as well as the Tyrants who support them. As far as I'm concerned we shouldnt be taking any prisoners in Iraq,"unless we need information from them".

"""""""" But the BEST PREVENTION is NOT getting onto a situation that would cause these people to have us in their sights in the first place."""""""""

Kid did it ever occur to you that we never did put ourselves"" onto a situation that would cause these people to have us in their sights in the first place.""? Did it ever occur to you that these bastards are just a bunch of intolerant murderous assholes and what we did, or didn't do, doesn't make any difference at all? Did you ever think that this terrorists are just plain "wrong"? Or has the world/leftist/media/collective, along with higher learning Institutions, totally mushed your fucking brain to the point where you cant even figure out if your ass is punched or drilled?

What do you think? That if peace breaks out between the Jews and the Palestinians, if America pulls back from its International commitments, if we become a rustic people of wood and dale, that these terrorists are going to turn in their AKs and take jobs hawking lamb kabobs?

I think the answer to that question again lies in history. Just look at the 70s when we didn't answer Tehran, the 80s when we didn't strike back from Lebanon, the 90s with Klinton when we took hit after hit, without striking back, and our enemies just got stronger. These Islamists couldn't give a shit what we do. They may use religion as a tool but their goals are purely Political. They want to convert, or overthrow and destroy everything, and everyone, that doesn't fit into their malignant cause.

Nobody "pushed" these bastards into anything. Except of course the intolerant regimes that spawned them. They "chose" a life of twisted jihad. America,Israel, or any of the western democracies didn't "make" these people. The Islamic Theocracies, Dictatorships, Military Govt.'s, their citizens, and the Madrasses "made them".

Bomb Iran and Syria into the stone age, and just plain nuke North Korea. And I bet you'd get a real quick change of heart from these tyrants............................. .........................Uncle Rich

"Death to Tyrants"!

bandaidwoman

As a scientist I like to see data that shows privatization of the system works. Since the only social security privatization experiment I know of has failed miserably in Chile, data suggests it doesn't work.

It's also interesting that more people with basic economics understanding are largely against it by looking at many of the articles written that do not support privatization and my personal experience with my dad and other financial brokers (who have strong economic and investment knowledge) who are also largely against it. And these guys are definately not flaming liberals.

Official Race Member of the Crank Crushing Rednecks

Eat more mud, mountain bike until you die!

XX Feminine power

BoneCrusher

Ima freak on sourcing stuff so any time some wanna be town crier spouts off about a "Secret Document" without sourcing it I scream bullshit. So I dug around a little. Here is the Google result for PNAC. Spend some time there ... I did last night ... it will give this conversation a change of direction. That little town crier was not bullshiting us after all.

That site did lead to some of the key money people and where those money men hail from. I liked the James Baker call as well. Anyone who would allow some of the key players in the Enron debacle, Thomas White or Kenneth Lay within their sphere of effected motion can only be equally dishonest by nature and very well paid for. Why else accept the onus that relationship brings to the table? ALL of this collection of "Pioneers" of industry are part of Bush's circle of supporters and backers. BushCo is like a whacko conspiracy theorists evil mythical nightmare come true. Bush is surrounded by all the major corporate scandal leaders of the last 10 years. Don't belive me follow the links and the money ... but don't run around slaming people with out doing your homework first.

You can sit in denial and only quote the obviously ill composed parts of the data put forth while ignoring the leads to real solid information ... or you can do the research for the hard and real data. Bush is not what you believe him to be and the people behind him are not there for some ultraistic purpose ... he and those people that back him are there for the oil money. The collateral beni's are outstanding indeed. No-one could or should argue the loss of Sadam ... but he is not what we signed on for as a nation in the war on terror.

We are supposed to be killing Bin Laden and the rest of his crew ... instead we are securing our oil needs with this war on "Terror" being used as a ruse to sway those to lazy to look under the covers of the bed BushCo lies in.

A side note. cfs you need to tone down your caustic and sarcastic assault on whom ever you direct your responses too. I don't get involved in these debates for one-upsmanship or to feel better than someone else ... I do it to improve my personal perspective and knowledge on what I believe to be the truth. I have no desire to listen to someone insult me or others just to get them selves off.
None of that was needed or benificial. I left the last debate we had for just this reason. I'm not interested in debating anyone who considers it their need to lambaste anyone not in accord with them. Rich is just such an asshole and worse ... I don't even read 95% of what he posts because he is such a useless windbag. Pleaae don't put yourself into his classification. Lighten up a little.

brogers

Rich46yo, I completely agree. The world would be a far better place.

DOMS

That PNAC looks interesting. Way too much info for one sitting, so I'll have to get back to you on that.

As for Bush being surround by every major scandal, that's bulls...ummm...that's purely wrong. A simple example, Enron was committing the fraud, for which they were caught under the Bush Administration, under Clinton's Administration. Think about it.

So we should ignore any other source of threat to the US until Osama's been captured. Not a very good strategy.

I don't think Bush is a saint, I just think that he's better than anything that the Dems or independents have to offer. Much butter. Heck, John Kerry is still flip-flopping on nearly anything he says. And he's not even running for the presidency any more.

And only items 1,2, and 4 in your list were mean spirited. Number three was a negative statement of the truth to make it more poignant. As for having me tone it down, no. I use caustic statements like a good chef uses spices, for a bit of flavor. Most of my posts have had only one or two such statements. Nothing to get your panties in twist over.

BoneCrusher

Too bad cfs. Like I said I do this for the sake of learning something ... not to for self indulgence. By your way of doing things it's cool to ba an asshole to people for sefl-serving reasons ... not because they earned it.

DOMS

You're calling the leader of my country all sorts of unsavory things, or at least implying them. Plus you spread rumors that you try to front as facts. Rumors created by the Angry Left (whom I detest). So, if it was a matter of earning caustic remarks, you'd would have.

Really though, don't be so sensitive.

Navyguy808

Rich, i couldnt of said it better myself. we need to blow the fuck outta Iran and North Korea before its too late. Kinda pissed me off the other day to read the news and Rice declare "attacking Iran is not on the U.S.'s 2005 Agenda". i hope to God she's bullshittin her ass off, people dont fuckin realize how much of an imminent threat Iraq was, Iran, and North Korea currently are. goddamn hippies, democrats, and Bush haters need to realize that it takes someone like President Bush to deal with this commy shit...............KILL'M ALL............

bio-chem

there is a country in europe that did the privatization thing with favorable results, im thinking it was denmark or sweeden. ill look it up and get back on this thread.

John H. i think i can finally agree with you on something. you made a comment on the energy crisis. i agree, its a problem needs to be looked at. i think the answer is in nuclear power. if we can get all of our static power (houses, heating, lights) to be supplied by alternative feuls (alternative to fossil feuls) we can save the oil for our cars. and go back to the good old days of gas guzzling muscle cars. ha ha ha. everthing else youve said on this thread like the others ive got to go against.

so Rich46 you made a comment on what you think the next democratic presedential elect will be like. are you saying Hillary Clinton is not their best option?

DOMS

Personally, I think he'll make a good candidate.

Rich46yo

Navy, agendas can change quicker then it takes to load new coordinates into a Tomahawk-lll..............Uncle Rich

"Death to Tyrants"!

Navyguy808

John H.

Hi Brogers,

Me? "Rambling"? NOT at all. I stand by what I said. Because what I said IS true. And IS basic economics. Don't believe me? Ask someone who is rich if they are willing to take less for what they do - not only would they NOT but it would be a resounding HELL NO!!! Greed knows no bounds and this country has a lot of people who truly are and couldn't care less about the rest of the country and other people in it, that is why they run to other countries to produce things at the expense of those who actually DO the work its takes to produce something, at slave-labor prices (and even prison labor), no health, no retirement, no vacation, no nothing.... and then come back here with their products and sell them here at prices that are tremendously out of line, ALL to make themselves RICH.

"Contradicting", "Invalid"? Not at all!

My "grammar"? I did not contradict myself at all. Re-read what I said. (Check your spelling of "invald"). If you are going to criticise someone do it constructively and make sure YOU are accurate in what you say before you run others down.

People WORKING AND LIVING AND EARNING their way and spending what they earn IN THIS COUNTRY is what MADE this country.

Take Care, John H.

John H.

Hi Rich,

Did you see the piece on Public Broadcasting on NOVA regarding Iraq and what happened there in the past and present? And why?

It was very interesting.

The people in this area of the world want to live their lives the way they want to live them and without outside interference especially from "The West" (THEIR viewpoint). They have their religion and their religious beliefs which are not the same as ours here basically. They like having multiple wives. Their rich like being rich and could care less about those others in their country who have nothing. (Kinda like some in this country).

Basically, there are three reasons why all this bs is going on in the Middle East:

1) They HAVE the world's largest supply of oil. (They did not even know it until someone was pissed off about the lack of water there and when they drilled for water they accidently found oil and still did not realize initially what they had or its worth).

2) Their rich want to BE rich. They will do anything to be that way. They like it. Monies they have received in the past was often squandered and their greed caused them to ask other countries for help in developing their personal wealth. The country as a whole did not really benefit nearly as much as their rich did.

3) Their religion is their basis for their living and how they conduct themselves. They do NOT want outside interference. They do NOT want their lifestyle changed. They do not want to participate in "progress" because they like they way they live. They want NO PART of "westerners" or how we live.

4) They use their religion as a way to justify their actions and as a way to convince others in their country to give up their life for the "cause". It has always been kinda tough to fight someone who is very willing to give up their own life for their "cause". Look at what Japan did to us in World War II.

5) Had no one gone into this area of the world (from the "outside" - I am speaking of around the turn of the century - 20th - and beyond: England and later the U. S. became involved in this area partially because of the Middle East being in need of technical help) we would not be having the problems with these people we now have - they probably would have kept to themselves and we would have been a lot better off, monetarily and certainly would not be loosing our Men over there and probably not be threatened by them here.

6) If the rest of the world was not DEPENDENT on a large supply of oil we would not be there in the first place. That IS what got us there and why we still are there. If the USA was not energy DEPENDENT and if the rest of the world was not in this boat we would not even be having this conversation.

7) Having all our eggs in one basket is just ASKING for trouble. Our diversity and our ability to produce our OWN products by our OWN people who were master craftsmen is what made us very strong - Japan certainly found that out in World War II as well as Germany and Italy.

I will says that once someone starts threatening you DO have to DO something - and it better BE RIGHT ON whatever you decide to do. And you can not "play pattycake" - once involved in a fight or in a war it must be strictly business until the business is DONE. But before you go into such an exercise you had better BE RIGHT and HAVE DONE YOUR HOMEWORK BEFOREHAND ACCURATELY, COMPLETELY, AND HONESTLY. To do otherwise is just asking for real trouble.

Once you have angered these people in this area they are never going to forget and they will never stop coming after us - BELIEVE THAT! They have absolutely nothing to loose - by their definition, trust me.

Take Care, John H.

ALBOB