Thread: Now THIS pissed me off

He's still a hero in my eyes.

Originally Posted by Flex

Shit like this REALLY fucking pissed me off. Not only about the war, but just how a guy like that gets killed by his own people, and on TOP of it the Gov't lies to his family and the country saying he died like a hero in order to cover it up and not look bad.

I agree wholeheartedly. Heads should roll, but none will. It's amazing how many total and intentional fuck ups this country has had and no one is being held accountable.

The heroic story of Tillman's demise told by the Gov. is just like the lies spread concerning the female soldier that supposedly went down firing against the Iraq insurgents. Only problem was she was injured in a truck accident and cared for by Iraqi medics. Doesn't sell as well, does it?

Originally Posted by Decker

The heroic story of Tillman's demise told by the Gov. is just like the lies spread concerning the female soldier that supposedly went down firing against the Iraq insurgents. Only problem was she was injured in a truck accident and cared for by Iraqi medics. Doesn't sell as well, does it?

The WHOLE freakin war is one big lie.

Are you really surprised the Government lied.....thats what they do.

Originally Posted by Decker

The heroic story of Tillman's demise told by the Gov. is just like the lies spread concerning the female soldier that supposedly went down firing against the Iraq insurgents. Only problem was she was injured in a truck accident and cared for by Iraqi medics. Doesn't sell as well, does it?

Imagine the US government or Bush Jr actually admitting that they made a mistake, figure the odds of that ever happening.

yeah that whole deal with Jessica Lynch was such a sham. The 2nd Gulf War was nothing like the 1st but then again 1st Persian Gulf was was completely justified. There was a lot of shit that went down over there that never made it to the press, which is the way it's supposed to be.

Originally Posted by LAM

Imagine the US government or Bush Jr actually admitting that they made a mistake, figure the odds of that ever happening.

You know that's the thing Lam, this administration has blatantly lied to or misled this country in a number of areas that's demonstrably easy to show. I mean look at the Medicare reform, Social Security reform, Iraq's WMDs and ties to Al Qaeda, Clear Skies Initiative. It's not just the little lies--"mission accomplished", "we're turning the corner in Iraq", "Lynch/Tillman died heroes defending your freedoms"....it's the big ones--WMDs, SS will be broke in 2042, etc.

For those of you still supporting this administration, invest 1/10th of the independent critical thought you had in going after Clinton for his "crimes" and you'll see an abuse of governmental power unmatched in recent history. Bush is either heavily out of his element as president or he is corrupt. I think the truth lies in the middle.

Originally Posted by Decker

you'll see an abuse of governmental power unmatched in recent history. Bush is either heavily out of his element as president or he is corrupt. I think the truth lies in the middle.

I think it's both. Buck Fush!

The Government don't have a monopoly on lying.. Everyone lies.... From pro athletes to lawyers to priests.. Maybe it's just human nature ..

Friendly Fire occures in every war. There is very little that can be done to avoid it. It has been greatly minumized over time. However I sincerely believe that is of little consiquence to Tillmans family.

Originally Posted by SPIKE1257

The Government don't have a monopoly on lying.. Everyone lies.... From pro athletes to lawyers to priests.. Maybe it's just human nature ..

very true, but the Gov't is the only thing that never hasta pay consequences.

Originally Posted by devildog88

Friendly Fire occures in every war. There is very little that can be done to avoid it. It has been greatly minumized over time. However I sincerely believe that is of little consiquence to Tillmans family.

The point isn't that he died by friendly fire, the point is he was used as a pawn and his parents were willingly lied to when the gov't knew exactly what happened in order to accomplish this task.

For walking away from fame and $4 million, that guy is the ultimate soldier and American.

Originally Posted by musclepump

For walking away from fame and $4 million, that guy is the ultimate soldier and American.

And do you think the Government will pay his family that $4 million he turned down in the NFL so he could defend America............hell no they won't.

Originally Posted by ForemanRules

And do you think the Government will pay his family that $4 million he turned down in the NFL so he could defend America............hell no they won't.

And they shouldn't. Just because he was a great athelete didn't make him any better a soldier than any other guy on the battlefield. Not to be callous, but once he joined the military he became a dime a dozen... and his life worth no more than anybody elses. Everybody freaks out and calls the guy a hero because he gave up alot of money and died in combat. I hate to point out the obvious, but dying doesnt make you a hero. In my book the guys not a hero. He definitely died a patriot though, and there is no shame in that.

As to how he died, I'm not sure exactly what happened, or if the government was investigating it at the time and didn't want to say stuff they didn't know for sure, or if they were just straight out trying to lie to make a cause out his death. Regardless, I dont think his family would have been any more appeased by the government telling the truth. Its never easy to accept the loss of a loved one. Even more so when it seems so preventable in your own eyes.

Friendly fire happens though. Perhaps one day with all the proper technology in place and what not it won't. But many good soldiers have died from it. They do in all wars, no matter the country.

btw, as to that $4 million... I doubt he was so good a soldier that he should get 130x the amount that other soldiers get paid. Not to point out the obvious, but most of them are still alive.

Originally Posted by Eggs

And they shouldn't. Just because he was a great athelete didn't make him any better a soldier than any other guy on the battlefield. Not to be callous, but once he joined the military he became a dime a dozen... and his life worth no more than anybody elses. Everybody freaks out and calls the guy a hero because he gave up alot of money and died in combat. I hate to point out the obvious, but dying doesnt make you a hero. In my book the guys not a hero. He definitely died a patriot though, and there is no shame in that.

As to how he died, I'm not sure exactly what happened, or if the government was investigating it at the time and didn't want to say stuff they didn't know for sure, or if they were just straight out trying to lie to make a cause out his death. Regardless, I dont think his family would have been any more appeased by the government telling the truth. Its never easy to accept the loss of a loved one. Even more so when it seems so preventable in your own eyes.

Friendly fire happens though. Perhaps one day with all the proper technology in place and what not it won't. But many good soldiers have died from it. They do in all wars, no matter the country.

btw, as to that $4 million... I doubt he was so good a soldier that he should get 130x the amount that other soldiers get paid. Not to point out the obvious, but most of them are still alive.

Wow.............you must love GWB.....The point is the Government lied about his death to make him a HERO. They did this to promote the war ( and Wars), now if they are going to us someone ( without) there permission, and lie about that person then they need to pay up...How many Billion have the spent so far for there bull sh-t war in Iraq.

Originally Posted by ForemanRules

Wow.............you must love GWB.....The point is the Government lied about his death to make him a HERO. They did this to promote the war ( and Wars), now if they are going to us someone ( without) there permission, and lie about that person then they need to pay up...How many Billion have the spent so far for there bull sh-t war in Iraq.

Nah, I dont overly love Bush at all. But to anybody to fall for a hero story cause some dude kicked the bucket... well, it all sounds pretty lame to me anyhow.

They need to pay up $4 million dollars cause they lied about the guy dying? Tell me, what should they pay to the other troops who die and the facts are never quite straight, or to operatives we have in other countries that work for clandestine services that bite it and we dont acknowledge them, or any of thousands of other similar situations that have occured over the years.

I'm not sure how you equate the government lying to people deserving some kind of financial reward. Is that somehow going to bring their kid back? Does the government lying somehow entitle them to more money than other guys who get killed in friendly fire where the facts are known?

Not sure how to follow your logic on this one.

They purposely interfered with the investigation, they covered it up. I think they thought they could control it, and they realized that their recruiting efforts were going to go to hell in a handbasket if the truth about his death got out. They blew up their poster boy," said Tillman, a San Jose, Calif. lawyer.

For some reason I find this highly credible.

Originally Posted by Eggs

Nah, I dont overly love Bush at all. But to anybody to fall for a hero story cause some dude kicked the bucket... well, it all sounds pretty lame to me anyhow.

They need to pay up $4 million dollars cause they lied about the guy dying? Tell me, what should they pay to the other troops who die and the facts are never quite straight, or to operatives we have in other countries that work for clandestine services that bite it and we dont acknowledge them, or any of thousands of other similar situations that have occured over the years.

I'm not sure how you equate the government lying to people deserving some kind of financial reward. Is that somehow going to bring their kid back? Does the government lying somehow entitle them to more money than other guys who get killed in friendly fire where the facts are known?

Not sure how to follow your logic on this one.

My logic is simple, if you want to bitch about something don't bitch about a solider.
Do you remember the movie top gun????? Remember all the military recruiters outside the theater??? It's easy to pick on a 18 year old for thinking he will be a Hero if he joins the military. Whats sad is that the old men and women who run this country get away with criminal activity all the time, and people like you just bitch about how dumb some solider was....What a pathetic opinion bro.

Originally Posted by ForemanRules

And do you think the Government will pay his family that $4 million he turned down in the NFL so he could defend America............hell no they won't.

There was no clause when he signed up for the Army that said by passing up $4 mil, if you die and can't play later, the US will pay it up instead. And, there shouldn't have been. I'm not saying this guy is a hero because he was killed by his own guys, or that he would only be a hero if he died from enemy fire, the fact that he walked away from fame and a pro career to defend our country--no matter my opinion on George Dubya--makes him a hero and an ultimate American.

The guy was a hero before he died. They didn't need to conjure up some glorious death just to try and touch more hearts so they could fill the gaps this stupid war is making not just in the ranks but in the hearts of more and more Americans.

Originally Posted by ForemanRules

My logic is simple, if you want to bitch about something don't bitch about a solider.
Do you remember the movie top gun????? Remember all the military recruiters outside the theater??? It's easy to pick on a 18 year old for thinking he will be a Hero if he joins the military. Whats sad is that the old men and women who run this country get away with criminal activity all the time, and people like you just bitch about how dumb some solider was....What a pathetic opinion bro.

Top Gun???? You are kidding right?

Originally Posted by devildog88

Top Gun???? You are kidding right?

I wish I was kidding. Back in 1986 the air force set up recruiting posts at all the movie theaters in Michigan........very evil if you ask me, to prey on the innocent like that is just a crime.

Hell, Now they just go into the highschools. I have an army recruiter that works out in the high school gym and makes many contacts there. I am not sure it is right but.........

this war is so stupid... why tha fuck doesnt the gov' use all this money to invent new stuff, help improve medicine, fight a war against poverty and actually do something for us american for us the tax payers and not only for those rich fucks. man, when did the iraqis ever attack americans on us soil.. never. but we still claim their terrorist and we're fighting a war on terrorist, but in truth we're the ones terrorising them

I don't think anyone should get $4 million, he knew what he was getting into. IMO, you can't pay a soldier enough though, even though in peaceful times they do dick. For someone to say, "You know what, I am going to make this commitment and if we go to war, so be it.", that is an honorable thing.

And they shouldn't. Just because he was a great athelete didn't make him any better a soldier than any other guy on the battlefield. Not to be callous, but once he joined the military he became a dime a dozen... and his life worth no more than anybody elses. Everybody freaks out and calls the guy a hero because he gave up alot of money and died in combat. I hate to point out the obvious, but dying doesnt make you a hero. In my book the guys not a hero. He definitely died a patriot though, and there is no shame in that.

As to how he died, I'm not sure exactly what happened, or if the government was investigating it at the time and didn't want to say stuff they didn't know for sure, or if they were just straight out trying to lie to make a cause out his death. Regardless, I dont think his family would have been any more appeased by the government telling the truth. Its never easy to accept the loss of a loved one. Even more so when it seems so preventable in your own eyes.

Friendly fire happens though. Perhaps one day with all the proper technology in place and what not it won't. But many good soldiers have died from it. They do in all wars, no matter the country.

btw, as to that $4 million... I doubt he was so good a soldier that he should get 130x the amount that other soldiers get paid. Not to point out the obvious, but most of them are still alive.

I couldn't agree more Eggs, well said brotha. Its fantastic what Tillman did, but please, we throw out the term hero like its goin out of style and frankly I am tired of hearing it. ya know what would be heroic, someone getting us the hell out of the middle east conflict.. howabout that.... or even more heroic woulc be someone in the democratic party growing a sack so we can take our country back from these right wing lunatics, THAT would be heroic!

Originally Posted by ForemanRules

My logic is simple, if you want to bitch about something don't bitch about a solider.
Do you remember the movie top gun????? Remember all the military recruiters outside the theater??? It's easy to pick on a 18 year old for thinking he will be a Hero if he joins the military. Whats sad is that the old men and women who run this country get away with criminal activity all the time, and people like you just bitch about how dumb some solider was....What a pathetic opinion bro.

Thats cool. I've been in a the military. How much time did you spend serving?

Originally Posted by gr81

Ior even more heroic woulc be someone in the democratic party growing a sack so we can take our country back from these right wing lunatics, THAT would be heroic!

About now I'd be happy if the right wing took their own party back..