Thread: More on Flag Burning

I agree with you that this amendment is BAD but...
1) it has NO CHANCE of getting through the Senate and everyone knows that. So it is really just symbollic.
2) I despise "slipperry slope" as an arguement...it is a coward's arguement (not calling you a coward, mind you.)

Originally Posted by Pepper

I agree with you that this amendment is BAD but...
1) it has NO CHANCE of getting through the Senate and everyone knows that. So it is really just symbollic.

Pepper:

I doubt it will pass Senate, but it is still going to go to the Senate.

I do agree that there is a lot of symoblism in the Amendment, and the 9/11 attacks are - again - part of it going to the House in the first place.

2) I despise "slipperry slope" as an arguement...it is a coward's arguement (not calling you a coward, mind you.)

I do think it's a slippery slope in two areas:

1. A Constitutional Amendment, once passed, must then be technically reversed by passing another Amendment to nullify it. Which will never happen if there is a flag burning Amendment at the Consitutional level.

2. This will be a precedent.



This does not have to be, and should not be, a federal issue. It's because approximately 46 states or so, had there state laws banning flag burning which originated during Vietnam war protests overturned by the Supreme Court in 1989.


We are the best....because of the freedom we (used) to have.

Originally Posted by LAM

why should the same monies that are passed on from generation to generation be constantly taxed time and time again ?

I know this is off the topic I started, but inheritance money should be taxed for the ultra-rich b/c it preserves our democracy. It's not all monies--money inherited by a spouse passes tax free and only the sibs of the super rich were subject to the estate tax.

Just as anti-trust laws function, the estate tax battled the snowballing of ludicrously excessive wealth and power in the hands of a few which inexorably leads to undemocratic/fascist results....unchecked accumulation power/money necessarily interferes w/ the democratic process. Here's why:

We live in a democratic republic and everything is political. Political power can sometimes be equated w/ money (instead of the strength of ideas) and those with the most money have the loudest political voice to the detriment of others. That is fundamentally anti-democratic and un-american. Not everyone paid the estate tax, only those like the Hiltons, Bushs and Perots--nice to know so many want to preserve their wealth in perpetuity.

I think I just fell off my soapbox reaching for my whiskey...and it's only 8:30

The comparision to anti-trust laws is, at best, a HUGE stretch.

The anti-trust laws are their to protect consumers from monopolies NOT to limit the weath of corporations.

In reality, the estate tax is really a voluntary tax. Those with any resources at all hire accountants and lawyers and spend their middle-age years arranging their affairs so that no estate tax is paid.

So, I start an accounting practice I pay taxes:
1. income taxes on my income
2. self-employment taxes on my income.
3. sales tax on the the things I buy.
4. city license fees on my revenue
5. gas taxes on the fuel in my truck

and now, when I want to die, the IRS wants ONE MORE BITE at the apple? And this is fair to you? I submit that this is "fair" only because it hits people other than you.

^ This could be started as another important thread.

and...by the way, it does not apply to me either. I am nowhere near the point of having to worry about estate taxes. I hope to be one day though.

Actually, I hope there is no estate tax to worry about for anyone.

My best guess is that there will be a $10 million exemption and estate taxes on the excess.

Originally Posted by Pepper

The comparision to anti-trust laws is, at best, a HUGE stretch.

Not the spirit of the anti-trust laws

Originally Posted by Pepper

The anti-trust laws are their to protect consumers from monopolies NOT to limit the weath of corporations..

And just how do you think those corporations have the ability to become monopolies in the first place? Corporations that destroy the free market through unfair business practices are not your local mom 'n pop dry goods store. Just as major corporations can damage the free market, the aristocratic rise in the upper upper class can damage our democracy. The exercise of massive accumulated wealth will have that effect. If you haven't noticed that, then you haven't been paying attention. When's the last time anyone could meet w/ his state congressman w/out a $5,000 check in his hand?

Originally Posted by Pepper

In reality, the estate tax is really a voluntary tax. Those with any resources at all hire accountants and lawyers and spend their middle-age years arranging their affairs so that no estate tax is paid...

You are balls out correct on this one Pepper. As Leona Helmsley sp? said, "Taxes are for the little people." (Incidentally, government subsidized business, a' la Bush et. al., is one of the biggest wealth transfers to the wealthy out there.)

Originally Posted by Pepper

and now, when I want to die, the IRS wants ONE MORE BITE at the apple? And this is fair to you? I submit that this is "fair" only because it hits people other than you.

Pepper, the estate tax applied only to millionaires. Now it doesn't exist. If you're planning on passing on that type of money, well congratulations on your business acumen.

A democracy is rather fragile--everyone has a voice. The reduction of this country to 3rd world status, meaning only 2 classes--rich and poor--is fast becoming a reality. We left the feudal caste in England many years ago. But it's on the comeback.

Originally Posted by Pepper

I submit that this is "fair" only because it hits people other than you.

I am a lawyer and the estate tax would surely hit me. Don't assume everyone acts out base self-interest.

The problem is that there is only 2 partities... and both are owned by the same group of people................

"I personally do not believe in burning the flag. It's a personal belief, but I'll tell you something, I think people are overreacting, oh, just a little bit.

"Hey buddy, my daddy died for that flag." Well, I bought mine. Sorry. You know they sell them at K-Mart for three bucks, you're in, you're out, brand new flag, no violence was necessary.

"Hey buddy, my daddy died in the Korean war for that flag." What a coincidence - my flag was made in Korea!"

--Bill Hicks