Thread: Greetings from New Orleans

Originally Posted by Chain Link

I disagree completely. Louisiana had a murder rate of 12.9 per 100,000 *before* Katrina.

Thats over twice the national average, 6 times the rate of most other,"civilized"countries(and many US states).

You choose an inner American city and the murder rate in certain sections will be certainly high. Looting and violent crimes in a disaster are not unique situations limited to one major American city.

Perhaps we can play the blame game and say the Fed's knew of the levy problems and were gambling that nothing would happen..(I believe theres enough blame to go around from the mayor, to the president, and the people as well ( -not refering to just the levies, the locals were very vocal about them..- )

It's not a blame game. If people took responsibility, there wouldn't be any "game" of any kind. And I don't like demeaning the lives of American citizens by not expecting my government to be held accountable for their inactions simply because others consider it a "game" to hold my elected officials responsible for not doing their jobs. I'm not prepared to tell innocent babies that their lives needed to be sacrificed because our public officials were too damned worried about their internal power struggles to concentrate on the catastrophe. I don't care where the failure was on what level of government, but I will not lump my federal government in with whatever mistakes of the local and state officials for one very specific reason: the local and state officials were working. Their communications failed. They likely needed better planning and certainly needed support. Our President and federal government didn't deliver anything but promises for five days. Those are two completely different issues.

If our own government is incapable of protecting the lives of our citizens, then there isn't much reason to have a government, is there?

Just the same, Louisiana has fostered crime for a damn long time, Its been only the fear of law enforcement thats kept La together.. Once the local police were disbursed, in addition to the non-presence of national guard, it was a sure bet anarchy would break out.
Once that happened it was a must to send the military to restore order.. Had it been the police alone they would be fighting for months. Luckily criminals have the common trait of cowardice, so unless they largely outnumber a serviceman, or take him from behind I dont think criminals will be much of a threat to them.

It's not a small city. And this wasn't limited to New Orleans. Smaller cities in the Mississippi were caught with inadequate evacuation plans, a governor who did nothing more than "beg" people to leave and they didn't receive any help from the federal government either. They was looting in those coastal towns of that state, too. I see no reason to automatically assume that Louisiana was corrupt, but not Mississippi, when much of their experiences with FEMA and the federal government in this situation were similar. If we are going to accuse our states of being corrupt (and apparently, NOT our federal government, which didn't seem to have a clue) then again, are we claiming our system of government is an absolute waste here? And if that is the case, then it is the responsibility of the American people to stand up and tell these people - all the way up to the President - that we do not sacrifice the lives of our citizens for any bureaucracy.

And yes, It did make La look like a thrid world country, possibly worse.

Yeah. . .and its an image this nation won't be able to live down for decades.

Originally Posted by Witmaster

Thanks Chain Link.

To answer your questions in order...

We had the majority of our guys on the ground in Now Orleans in less than 24 hours of notification. We flew them via C130 to a Naval Air Station in Souther LA and then fast-roped them in off helecoptors directly at the convention center. We were the first Battalion to arrive this dep into the disaster area. The rest of the Battalion convoyed down. It took 2 days to get 60 trucks and the remaining 140 guys into our Area of Operations.

Yes, we have body armor. IBAS (Individual Body Armor System) is supposed to be rated up to 7.62mm with the trama plates installed. I should be fine so long as I don't take one in the head.

Yes, the depth of human depravity does suck when revealed through these acts of sensless violence. The beatings in the superdome pale in comparison to the attrocities we discovered in the convention center. We recovered bodies of people with thier heads cut off (Al Queda style).

I really can't go into too great of details as many of these victoms have yet to be identified and thier next of kin notified.

I've attached a cool pic of my Command Post in the Garden District. We are in a place called the "Cricket_Club". Satalite Image shows a pale-green roof. That's me You can even see our vehicles parked outside. Too bad the place isn't operational due to the storm. It would just be kick-ass to have professional chefs cooking for us!

It's absolutely unthinkable that this happened in our country. Some of these things should have never happened. And some people who witnessed these things are going to remember them for the rest of their lives.

If they get a few things up and running, I'd think the locals will show you some hospitality. . .Ya'll are likely gonna get special privileges for Mardi Gras. . .

Originally Posted by kbm8795

If they get a few things up and running, I'd think the locals will show you some hospitality. . .Ya'll are likely gonna get special privileges for Mardi Gras. . .

Oh they have done that. Several Hotel Owners are offering us penthouse accomodations. Some locals bring us pizza. They're very kind to us.

I look forward to returning here at a future date when the city is healed. These people seem very nice (with the exception of the thugs we arrest.)

If I know the hospitality of New Orleanians, they'll be wanting all of you to come back to have fun - and they'll roll out the red carpet. The local population is very grateful that you are there, Wit. . .all of you.

I've read about how the Tennessee Guard assigned to Grand Isle are just amazed at how the local population has embraced them. . .but...of course the locals would - you are saving Americans. I guess the people down in that town are cooking dinner for them all the time, bringing them desserts. . .the ladies in the town are gathering the soldiers' laundry and doing it. . .and this all started when one store clerk saw a soldier buying a small can of ham. She told him that that wasn't the kind of meal a soldier in southeastern Louisiana should have to eat, made a few calls and. . .

I don't know how long they expect to keep ya'll there, or if you'll be rotating out - but there are very good people in that city and they are grateful for every one of you.

By the way, this hasn't been updated since Thursday, so I don't know if its any help, but. . . check this out. . .

http://www.wwl.com/goout.asp?u=http:...cctechnol.com/

You can type in an address and they have the flood depth. . .well, at least as of that date. Of course, ya'll probably have more updated information. You can click on some satellite images and zoom in fairly well. . .not perfect (gets blurry when it gets down to a three or four block area). Just click on Katrina and you'll see landmarks like the Superdome. . .and if you click on the Katrina map on any location, they'll post maximum flooding and the latest depth they have recorded.

Originally Posted by Chain Link

I disagree completely. Louisiana had a murder rate of 12.9 per 100,000 *before* Katrina.

Thats over twice the national average, 6 times the rate of most other,"civilized"countries(and many US states).

Originally Posted by kbm8795

You choose an inner American city and the murder rate in certain sections will be certainly high. Looting and violent crimes in a disaster are not unique situations limited to one major American city

Louisiana is not an inner American city... I think Ive been insulted as it seems you didnt bother to read my post
I was refering to the entire state.. Which didnt have too many .. Inner American Cities. New York state had a murder rate of 5 per 100,000 while Louisiana had 12.9 per 100,000..(same statistics sheet) and I think NY has more Inner American City.

Originally Posted by kbm8795

It's not a blame game. If people took responsibility, there wouldn't be any "game" of any kind. And I don't like demeaning the lives of American citizens and expecting my government to be held accountable for their inactions simply because others consider it a "game" to hold my elected officials responsible for not doing their jobs. I'm not prepared to tell innocent babies that their lives needed to be sacrificed because our public officials were too damned worried about their internal power struggles to concentrate on the catastrophe. I don't care where the failure was on what level of government, but I will not lump my federal government in with whatever mistakes of the local and state officials for one very specific reason: the local and state officials were working. Their communications failed. They likely needed better planning and certainly needed support. Our President and federal government didn't deliver anything but promises for five days. Those are two completely different issues.

hehe I didnt mean to make a statement here(about the blame game). What I meant to say was that in the case of the levies there were signs that action needed to be taken pre-katrina(and about this the local officials, and the ACoE were vocal and active.. It was also in part the ACoE reputation that cast doubt as to how much money they would really need, which took part in the under-funding for the levy updates.)
To not fund the needed updates was gambling that such a scenario would not happen. My intention was to show the cause and effect relationship between the levies, the failure to update them, and the breaching of the levies is synonymous to the relationship between the crime in La, the failure to control it, and the post disaster anarchy.
There we obviously many signs that the crime was out of control in that area, failure to properly handle the crime pre-katrina was the reason all hell broke loose in the absence of law enforcement. I strongly doubt that a state like Utah, with a 1.9 per 100,000 murder rate would burst into anarchy and looting in a post-katrina like area(there would probably be some lawlessness, but minimal)

But you're right, They are two different issues, I only brought it up for analogical purposes. On a side note I agree with pretty much everything you said there

Originally Posted by kbm8795

If our own government is incapable of protecting the lives of our citizens, then there isn't much reason to have a government, is there?

We dont need governement. Just look at how well New Orleans did in just its few days without government.
The SCOTUS actually declared long ago the police(therefore the government) arent responsible for protecting civilians from crime.
Thats just a useless piece of trivia though. While most people should be expected to get themselves out of harms way, the goverment should certainly have evacuation assistance ready for those who were incapable of getting themselves out.. They government certainly lacked there.. completely.

Originally Posted by Me!

Just the same, Louisiana has fostered crime for a damn long time, Its been only the fear of law enforcement thats kept La together.. Once the local police were disbursed, in addition to the non-presence of national guard, it was a sure bet anarchy would break out.
Once that happened it was a must to send the military to restore order.. Had it been the police alone they would be fighting for months. Luckily criminals have the common trait of cowardice, so unless they largely outnumber a serviceman, or take him from behind I dont think criminals will be much of a threat to them.

Originally Posted by kbm8795

It's not a small city. And this wasn't limited to New Orleans. Smaller cities in the Mississippi were caught with inadequate evacuation plans, a governor who did nothing more than "beg" people to leave and they didn't receive any help from the federal government either. They was looting in those coastal towns of that state, too. I see no reason to automatically assume that Louisiana was corrupt, but not Mississippi, when much of their experiences with FEMA and the federal government in this situation were similar. If we are going to accuse our states of being corrupt

I left my quote above this post because in my previous post I never once refered to New Orleans Only La as a whole, as I didnt have a crime statistics to refer to NO individually. As for Mississippi.. The Looting wasnt as bad there to my understanding? Coincidentially, their murder rate(as of the last date I know) was 9 per 100,000.. Still over 150% of the US natn average, and over 400% higher than many other US States. I think its reasonable to say theres a connection between the level of lawlessness under normal circumstances, and the level in a post disaster situation(esp due to lack of law enforcement)

Originally Posted by kbm8795

(and apparently, NOT our federal government, which didn't seem to have a clue) then again, are we claiming our system of government is an absolute waste here? And if that is the case, then it is the responsibility of the American people to stand up and tell these people - all the way up to the President - that we do not sacrifice the lives of our citizens for any bureaucracy.

Unfortunetly.. Yes. Its as you said, politicians are too busy in their power struggle to worry about managing this country. IThe problem is it takes a large voice to get their attention; a large amount of people.. And even if 12% of the US joined this group, and it became named,"Goddamit you useless !@#$heads stop fighting for power and do the job you're supposed to" It would just become another factor in their fight. Everyone would be jumping up and down to say,"look, Im not corrupt!"
And while the politicians are whoring for votes from yet one more group, another hurricane will get ignored.

Honestly, I dont know how a regular citizen can do much at this point.. even if you become a politician yourself.. You then become so busy trying to keep yourself in office so you can do something that you dont do anything. I dont intend to become a politician to find out..

For me, Ill just stand by my belief that you should not expect anything, dont rely on anybody unless absolutely you have too(then you dont have a choice anyways), or unless they have a very good reputation.. because when you rely on someone, such as the govt, and they fall through.. You're screwed. But generally if you just plan ahead to have no support and you get support, then its a plus, and you'll be OK w/o it.