Should Stanley "Tookie" Williams Be Granted Clemency?

**Diakonos** · 11-30-2005, 11:03 AM

For those of you who may not know this man, Stanley "Tookie" Williams was convicted and sent to San Quentin Prison on four counts of murder in 1979 (though he has always maintained that he is innocent). Since then, Williams has turned his life around. He has written nine children's books and speaking out against gang violence and, he has been nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize each year since 2001. Oh by the way, did I also mention that Williams is co-founder of the Crips, and considered by many who are affiliated with the gang to be an O.G. He is scheduled to be excuted on December 13, 2005. Many have spoken out on behalf of Williams saying that he should be granted clemency. Of course there also many who believe that he should still be executed, regardless of how he has turned his life around. Here are some links. Please read them and share your opinions.
http://www.nbc4.tv/news/5394294/detail.html

http://www.nationalledger.com/artman...27261834.shtml

http://www.democracynow.org/article....5/11/30/153247

**The Monkey Man** · 11-30-2005, 11:16 AM

Don't do the crime, if you can't do the time!!!

He carried out his message from jail -

**Dale Mabry** · 11-30-2005, 11:37 AM

I think the death penalty should be invoked for reposts.

**BigDyl** · 11-30-2005, 11:47 AM

Originally Posted by Dale Mabry

I think the death penalty should be invoked for reposts.

>

**lnvanry** · 11-30-2005, 11:52 AM

He was convected in a court of law for murder...execution style...the victim (military seviceman) was kneelling and shot in the back of the head.

He has refused to help law enforcement even thought he has vital intel considering he started crips and knows all the chiefs in LA.

I am not huge fan of death penalty but there needs to be consistency. If the courts ordered it then it should be done...it was ordered by a jury too not a judge.

none of this matters though b/c Arnold granted him the clemency

**lnvanry** · 11-30-2005, 11:53 AM

I guess Arnold is actually trying to be a politician and help out w/ his black votes

**gococksDJS** · 11-30-2005, 12:28 PM

No, he souldn't be granted clemency. Since when does writing childrens books negate the fact that he's killed 4 people? Knowing the exact time, day and method of your own death would effect the way anyone thinks. He knows exactly when he will meet the devil.

**min0 lee** · 11-30-2005, 01:24 PM

Originally Posted by Dale Mabry

I think the death penalty should be invoked for reposts.

3 times.

**TJ Cline** · 11-30-2005, 01:26 PM

He is an innocent victim of our racist justice system, so the right thing to do is feed him to Lions on national TV

**min0 lee** · 11-30-2005, 01:27 PM

He has written nine children's books and speaking out against gang violence

OK, example..... If I was to kill BigDyl and write some kids books can I get away with it? That's just an example.....

**min0 lee** · 11-30-2005, 01:28 PM

Originally Posted by ForemanRules

He is an innocent victim of our racist justice system, so the right thing to do is feed him to Lions on national TV

Now that's must see TV.

**dougnukem** · 11-30-2005, 01:29 PM

Fry his ass!!!!

**dougnukem** · 11-30-2005, 01:31 PM

Time to ride the lightning, Tookie!!

**Diakonos** · 11-30-2005, 01:41 PM

Originally Posted by The Monkey Man

Don't do the crime, if you can't do the time!!!

He carried out his message from jail -

Hey Monkey Man,

He is doing the time. And he will continue to do it for the rest of his life

Nobody is suggesting that the man be set free. It's a question of whether or not his life should be spared.

**min0 lee** · 11-30-2005, 02:00 PM

Originally Posted by Diakonos

Hey Monkey Man,

He is doing the time. And he will continue to do it for the rest of his life

Nobody is suggesting that the man be set free. It's a question of whether or not his life should be spared.

Ask the victims kids and parents, ask the families and neighborhoods destroyed by the bloods and crips.

**TJ Cline** · 11-30-2005, 02:06 PM

Originally Posted by Diakonos

Hey Monkey Man,

He is doing the time. And he will continue to do it for the rest of his life

Nobody is suggesting that the man be set free. It's a question of whether or not his life should be spared.

I'm with the old Testament on this one: an eye for an eye.
Kill the coward and let Jesus deal with him

**silencer** · 11-30-2005, 02:16 PM

I voted no, But even if he was granted Clemency, its not exactly a life I would want to lead. Being locked up in shitty conditions for the rest of your life CONGRADULATIONS. I agree with the the idea of "if you can't do the time, don't do the crime" so therefore I voted no, but I mean ...common, It's shit either way.

**BigDyl** · 11-30-2005, 03:22 PM

Originally Posted by min0 lee

OK, example..... If I was to kill BigDyl and write some kids books can I get away with it? That's just an example.....

**min0 lee** · 11-30-2005, 03:30 PM

Originally Posted by BigDyl

Keep eating your proteins, once I slay you like a buffalo I will eat you.

**Super Hulk** · 11-30-2005, 05:58 PM

"tookie" should be given a "cookie" and milk

**themamasan** · 11-30-2005, 07:24 PM

He should die. If not, then we continue to pay for his housing and food and also send a message to all the other criminals that you may kill people now, repent later and live a life on other people's paychecks.

**bigss75** · 11-30-2005, 08:21 PM

Yeah I heard that every max security inmate costs like 80 grand a year to hold.

**Diakonos** · 12-01-2005, 11:14 AM

Originally Posted by ForemanRules

I'm with the old Testament on this one: an eye for an eye.
Kill the coward and let Jesus deal with him

Do you follow all the laws of the Old Testament (there were over six hundred of them you know)? Or do you just pick and choose which Laws you want to live by?

**musclepump** · 12-01-2005, 11:22 AM

No mercy.

**NeilPearson** · 12-01-2005, 11:31 AM

Originally Posted by Diakonos

Do you follow all the laws of the Old Testament (there were over six hundred of them you know)? Or do you just pick and choose which Laws you want to live by?

He never claimed to follow the old testament. He just said he agreed with the old testament on this one... that is a lot different than following it.

Oh and yeah I think he should die. In fact they should round up all those little gang bangers and kill them all.

**min0 lee** · 12-01-2005, 11:37 AM

Well, it's looks like everyone here wants the execution to go through.. What do you think Diakonos?

**Diakonos** · 12-01-2005, 01:45 PM

Originally Posted by min0 lee

Well, it's looks like everyone here wants the execution to go through.. What do you think Diakonos?

Here is my take on it.

First of all, I am completely against the death penalty for a couple of reasons; the first one being that the death penalty is racist. African Americans make of 12% of the population, yet 42% of death row inmates. Secondly, the death penalty does not deter crime. It does however punish the poor, and in some cases condemn the innocent to die. On top of all that, it’s just cruel and unusual punishment.

I’m not saying that Tookie Williams is guiltless. I’m not even saying that he shouldn’t be punished for the crimes he committed (and by the way, his LIFE sentence with no chance for parole seems like punishment to me). But this is the bottom line. Killing Stanley Williams isn’t going to bring the people he murdered back to life. But keeping him alive may allow him the opportunity to continue steer inner city youth away from gang violence. It’s a problem, I might add, that he helped to create. So it only seems fitting that he spends the rest of his life trying to eradicate gang violence. He can’t do that from a grave.

Just my opinion.

**TJ Cline** · 12-01-2005, 02:04 PM

Originally Posted by Diakonos

Do you follow all the laws of the Old Testament (there were over six hundred of them you know)? Or do you just pick and choose which Laws you want to live by?

No I do not follow the Old Testament .
I do think their are some good teachings in it and that one fits this discussion well......cant think of one Old Testament law that conflicts with it, can you??

**Tier** · 12-01-2005, 02:07 PM

Ahh you're opening up that can of worms again. It's not that it's racist it's that there are more poor black people in heavily populated areas, poor people do dumb desperate shit.

Of course everybody wants to be a "thug" now too because the radio told them it's cool.

**TJ Cline** · 12-01-2005, 02:10 PM

Originally Posted by Diakonos

Here is my take on it.

First of all, I am completely against the death penalty for a couple of reasons; the first one being that the death penalty is racist. African Americans make of 12% of the population, yet 42% of death row inmates. Secondly, the death penalty does not deter crime. It does however punish the poor, and in some cases condemn the innocent to die. On top of all that, it’s just cruel and unusual punishment.

I’m not saying that Tookie Williams is guiltless. I’m not even saying that he shouldn’t be punished for the crimes he committed (and by the way, his LIFE sentence with no chance for parole seems like punishment to me). But this is the bottom line. Killing Stanley Williams isn’t going to bring the people he murdered back to life. But keeping him alive may allow him the opportunity to continue steer inner city youth away from gang violence. It’s a problem, I might add, that he helped to create. So it only seems fitting that he spends the rest of his life trying to eradicate gang violence. He can’t do that from a grave.

Just my opinion.

I like how you misslead people with improper facts....or as I like to call it lies.
http://www.doc.state.nc.us/r&p/abstr...596/FILE18.HTM
Black offenders account for almost two thirds of the total year-end prison population (65.4%). Almost one third are white offenders (31.2%), and the remaining three percent are other races.

* 9,644 (31.2%) White.

* 20,189 (65.4%) Black.

* 637 (2.1%) Indian.

* 38 (0.1%) Oriental

* 325 (1.1%) Other

* 43 (0.1%) Not Reported

U.S. incarceration rates by race, June 30, 2004:

* Whites: 393 per 100,000
* Latinos: 957 per 100,000
* Blacks: 2,531 per 100,000
Look at just the males by race, and the incarceration rates become even more frightening, June 30, 2004:

* White males: 717 per 100,000
* Latino males: 1,717 per 100,000
* Black males: 4,919 per 100,000
http://www.prisonsucks.com/

So you have 12% of the population committing 65.4% of the crime.....

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