Will Non-Christians go to Hell?

gococksDJS · 12-02-2005, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pepper

Creation - 6 literal days or 6 "ages." - this is my favorite one to discuss.

I enjoy debating this as well, but from my experience, most religious people turn to the "but he's god, he can do what he wants" answer, which kills the discussion, and sends it to hell. Christian hell that is.

Pepper · 12-02-2005, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gococksDJS

What about an orthodox jewish Rabbi? You say he's going to hell, despite the fact that he has devoted his life to the Jewish faith, just like Priests do. But he's going to hell because he's Jewish?

Not because he is Jewish, because he does not accept Christ.

gococksDJS · 12-02-2005, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pepper

Yes, but not like that. Telling someone that they are going to Hell is a lousy and inappropriate way to discuss this. Many people do this and it is a shame.

Just read some of the threads on this site, yes, there is plenty of laughter.

But surely you would want to "save" someone you loved, so if a loved one was Jewish, how would you approach the subject and reveal their imminent eternity of damnation?

dougnukem · 12-02-2005, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeilPearson

There is definitely a punishment in the bible for sin... hell or death or the grave... depends on how you translate the word but they all mean the same thing.

No fire :P

I just was proving the bible's mention of the existence of hell. That is what you asked if I'm not mistaken.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeilPearson

Then it should be easy to come up with some biblical quotes that prove hell exists.

god hand · 12-02-2005, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pepper

To be honest, I have always understood Christian teachings to be that hell is the to not be in the presence of God. Whether there will be torment or not, clearly a world without God would not be a place I'd want to live.

gococksDJS · 12-02-2005, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pepper

Not because he is Jewish, because he does not accept Christ.

They do not accept Christ as the messiah, is that what you meant?

Pepper · 12-02-2005, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gococksDJS

I enjoy debating this as well, but from my experience, most religious people turn to the "but he's god, he can do what he wants" answer, which kills the discussion, and sends it to hell. Christian hell that is.

I personally question the Six 24-hour day interpretation, though I can't deny that this is the most simple interpretation of Genesis.

The Hebrew word for day "yom" is similar to our word day - can me an actual day or a period of time. Hard to envision a 24 hour day with no sun.

I get accused of trying to fit Creation in to Evolution. I am not though. I think macro evolution is crock.

Pepper · 12-02-2005, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gococksDJS

They do not accept Christ as the messiah, is that what you meant?

Yes.

gococksDJS · 12-02-2005, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pepper

Not because he is Jewish, because he does not accept Christ.

Meanwhile the disciples were urging him, "Rabbi, eat something.” But he said to them, “I have food to eat that you do not know about.” So the disciples said to one another, “Surely no one has brought him something to eat?" Jesus said to them, “My food is to do the will of him who sent me and to complete his work.”
- John 4:31-34

How come Jesus never corrected people in the Bible when they called him Rabbi? Rabbi is defined as a spiritual leader of a Jewish congregation. You specifically stated that someone of the Jewish faith would go to hell, so what does this mean for Jesus?

Pepper · 12-02-2005, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gococksDJS

But surely you would want to "save" someone you loved, so if a loved one was Jewish, how would you approach the subject and reveal their imminent eternity of damnation?

Of course I do. However, beating someone over the head with the threat of hell is not an effective means. Said another way, many may "believe" so that they will not go to hell. That is not what it is about.

If I pointed a gun at you, you'd say "Go Clemson" if I asked you to.

gococksDJS · 12-02-2005, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pepper

I personally question the Six 24-hour day interpretation, though I can't deny that this is the most simple interpretation of Genesis.

The Hebrew word for day "yom" is similar to our word day - can me an actual day or a period of time. Hard to envision a 24 hour day with no sun.

I get accused of trying to fit Creation in to Evolution. I am not though. I think macro evolution is crock.

I agree that the perception of time has differed throughout history, but my main argument is that time can not be recorded without two points in spacetime and a means of determining the distance between those two points. Time is linear and has always relied on motion ie. Earth's orbit, the number of oscillations of a Cesium isotope in a vacuum, so my big question is how could God have recorded time (how long creation took) before spacetime existed because the planets and stars were not the first thing to be created.

Pepper · 12-02-2005, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gococksDJS

Meanwhile the disciples were urging him, "Rabbi, eat something.” But he said to them, “I have food to eat that you do not know about.” So the disciples said to one another, “Surely no one has brought him something to eat?" Jesus said to them, “My food is to do the will of him who sent me and to complete his work.”
- John 4:31-34

How come Jesus never corrected people in the Bible when they called him Rabbi? Rabbi is defined as a spiritual leader of a Jewish congregation. You specifically stated that someone of the Jewish faith would go to hell, so what does this mean for Jesus?

Huh? Jesus was a Jew. I did not state that Jews would, per se, go to Hell. I stated that those who rejected Christ would. Since the Jews of His day and the Jews of today, didnt/don't believe, that will be their fate.

Pepper · 12-02-2005, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gococksDJS

I agree that the perception of time has differed throughout history, but my main argument is that time can not be recorded without two points in spacetime and a means of determining the distance between those two points. Time is linear and has always relied on motion ie. Earth's orbit, the number of oscillations of a Cesium isotope in a vacuum, so my big question is how could God have recorded time (how long creation took) before spacetime existed because the planets and stars were not the first thing to be created.

I once read a blurb about a theory and always have meant to look it up. The theory is that time is speeding up.

gococksDJS · 12-02-2005, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pepper

Of course I do. However, beating someone over the head with the threat of hell is not an effective means. Said another way, many may "believe" so that they will not go to hell. That is not what it is about.

If I pointed a gun at you, you'd say "Go Clemson" if I asked you to.

Good point, I just find it hard to imagine that all those who don't follow Christianity go to Hell, even if they have devoted their lives and very existence to the religion they believe in.

silencer · 12-02-2005, 08:16 PM

So let me get this straight, Even though a Jewish person Who loves and devotes his life to God the almighty, helps and heals people but yet does not believe in a HUMAN JEWISH RABBI who SUPPOSEDLY existed 2000 Years will go to hell ? This is just fucking stupid.

Pepper · 12-02-2005, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gococksDJS

Good point, I just find it hard to imagine that all those who don't follow Christianity go to Hell, even if they have devoted their lives and very existence to the religion they believe in.

This is the part where I say "God is God and He can do as He pleases" and piss you off.

Pepper · 12-02-2005, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by silencer

So let me get this straight, Even though a Jewish person Who loves and devotes his life to God the almighty, helps and heals people but yet does not believe in a HUMAN JEWISH RABBI who SUPPOSEDLY existed 2000 Years will go to hell ? This is just fucking stupid.

Thanks. You've really given me something to think about.

gococksDJS · 12-02-2005, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pepper

I once read a blurb about a theory and always have meant to look it up. The theory is that time is speeding up.

That depends on your perception of time, but to record time you need two separate points in spacetime. If people living on Saturn perceived time as how long it took for their planet to orbit the sun, their perception of time would differ from ours, but they would still be able to record time, and to record their perception of time, they would need two fixed points in spacetime and a means of how to differentiate the linear progression they experience while going from one point to the other (time), just as we do, despite the difference in our perceptions of time.

gococksDJS · 12-02-2005, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pepper

This is the part where I say "God is God and He can do as He pleases" and piss you off.

haha, Im not getting pissed off. You've actually kept it a rational debate longer than most people. A lot of people get mad and say something like "How can you not believe? This is rediculous, so pointless to argue"

I have never said I do not believe in god or a devine creator. I just have many objections to organized religions, their belief systems, and the result of not following them.

bio-chem · 12-02-2005, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gococksDJS

I have a serious question.

Why is it that Christian beliefs apply to non-Christians (as this thread implies), but Islamic, Buddhism, or Jewish beliefs don't apply to non belevers of their faiths (in this case Christians)? Surely Christians do not follow what is outlined in the Islamic faith, so are you succeptible to the consequences of non-Islamic belief and destined to spend eternity in what they see as "hell"? If not, then why would a non-Christian suffer the consequences that Christians see is a result of not believing?

God is the sole creator of everything, so what happens to people who follow other organized religions? Are Islamic or Buddhist followers destined to burn in hell because the beliefs of their religion are not outlined in the Christian bible? Or does God say "well you believed in a religion, so no hell for you"

These aren't satirical questions, I'm being serious.

im pretty sure in islam they consider us infidel and as such we are screwed unless we convert to the worship of allah in their beliefs.

do i believe people who have never heard the name of Christ are therefore condemned to hell just because they havent accepted Christ? heck no. God would not be a just God if he condemned those to hell who have never heard of Christ. and i, like many on this forum would not be a believer due to the injustice of God. Everyone of us who have ever lived on this earth will get the opportunity to accept or reject Christ and his teachings. If that be in this life or the life to come we will all get to know Christ. that way we will all be judged according to our knowelege and actions that all may have the opportunity and all may be held accountable before the judgement of God.

bio-chem · 12-02-2005, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gococksDJS

So which religion is correct in their belief system? They all differ, so is Christianity the only one that got it right? The Jewish faith does not accept Jesus as the messiah, so are they going to hell? Surely they can't by-pass His rule, or does God bend the rules? If there is a sole creator who has outlined specific rules in the Bible, what does he do about other religions? Can you tell us which religion is the correct one, making all other religions incorrect.

read James 1:5-6 . i guarantee if you truely want to know which religioun is right, if you ask God and search out the truth showing you will follow when you know the truth God will reveal which church is true

gococksDJS · 12-02-2005, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bio-chem

read James 1:5-6 . i guarantee if you truely want to know which religioun is right, if you ask God and search out the truth showing you will follow when you know the truth God will reveal which church is true

Yes, but this passage is from the Bible. See what I mean? The bible is not the book of all religions.

lnvanry · 12-02-2005, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bio-chem

im pretty sure in islam they consider us infidel and as such we are screwed unless we convert to the worship of allah in their beliefs.

do i believe people who have never heard the name of Christ are therefore condemned to hell just because they havent accepted Christ? heck no. God would not be a just God if he condemned those to hell who have never heard of Christ. and i, like many on this forum would not be a believer due to the injustice of God. Everyone of us who have ever lived on this earth will get the opportunity to accept or reject Christ and his teachings. If that be in this life or the life to come we will all get to know Christ. that way we will all be judged according to our knowelege and actions that all may have the opportunity and all may be held accountable before the judgement of God.

Thats what seperates christianity from the other big 3 monotheistic religions...(some of us) we interpret our books as a contextualist...I've said before and I'll say it again...arab muslims can be fucking crazy w/ all that literal interpretation.

bio-chem · 12-02-2005, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gococksDJS

Meanwhile the disciples were urging him, "Rabbi, eat something.” But he said to them, “I have food to eat that you do not know about.” So the disciples said to one another, “Surely no one has brought him something to eat?" Jesus said to them, “My food is to do the will of him who sent me and to complete his work.”
- John 4:31-34

How come Jesus never corrected people in the Bible when they called him Rabbi? Rabbi is defined as a spiritual leader of a Jewish congregation. You specifically stated that someone of the Jewish faith would go to hell, so what does this mean for Jesus?

at the time of Jesus Christ the Jews were the people of God. Jesus was born a Jew, and was in fact the greatest Jew ever to live. It wasnt until the Jews rejected Christ as the Messiah all of their prophets had prophesied about that the followers of Jesus became a separate religion. remember all of his apostles were Jews and were recognised as such. the apostles continued to go to jewish synogogues to preach the resurected Christ as the Messiah. so Christ had no reason to correct them when they called him rabbi. for in fact he was the greatest rabbi ever.

bio-chem · 12-02-2005, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gococksDJS

Yes, but this passage is from the Bible. See what I mean? The bible is not the book of all religions.

i accept truth any where to be found. while im Christian i own and have read the koran. this passage from the bible says if you lack wisdom ask of God and he will reveal the truth to you. If there is a God and if he has a true religion that he wants us to be members in then it shouldnt be much of a stretch that he will lead us to that religion if that is the desire of our hearts to follow him, as long as we ask with a sincere heart. sounds pretty logical to me.

Big Smoothy · 12-03-2005, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rocco32

This is a poll for those who profess Christ as their Saviour. Non-christians can respond in the forum but not take the poll please.

And this is not a debate on if Christ existed and died or anything. Let's assume it's all true, I want to focus on the reality of salvation.

F*ck you asshole.

Hell is a Judeo-Christian concept.

You tattood, skin-head f*ck.

BigDyl · 12-03-2005, 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr_Snafu

F*ck you asshole.

Hell is a Judeo-Christian concept.

You tattood, skin-head f*ck.

gococksDJS · 12-03-2005, 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr_Snafu

F*ck you asshole.

Hell is a Judeo-Christian concept.

You tattood, skin-head f*ck.

wow...

Nick+ · 12-03-2005, 05:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr_Snafu

F*ck you asshole.

Hell is a Judeo-Christian concept.

You tattood, skin-head f*ck.

heavy

TJ Cline · 12-03-2005, 05:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pepper

You need to re-check the Mod listing.

Well the Mod listing is not what I'm talking about.

In open chat the type of responses are much less restricted than in the : Sports, Diet, Training, Anabolic ect sections........open chat is the only place it seems its is allowed to post bull shit................

View Poll Results: Will non-christian go to hell?
Yes.	8	18.60%
No.	28	65.12%
I don't know.	7	16.28%
Yes and I feel that is what a Just God should do.	0	0%
Voters: 43. You may not vote on this poll

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12-02-2005, 08:16 PM	#105
silencer Ascendo tuum Join Date: May 2003 Location: UK Posts: 659	So let me get this straight, Even though a Jewish person Who loves and devotes his life to God the almighty, helps and heals people but yet does not believe in a HUMAN JEWISH RABBI who SUPPOSEDLY existed 2000 Years will go to hell ? This is just fucking stupid.