Thread: Future in the Military, A few Questions.

I would think that war quickly numbs your feelings about taking life, because the enemy soldiers you kill are also trying to kill you, but I've never served in the military so I'm not sure.

Travel the world, get laid.

And get paid, too.

Having been in the Air Force, I have never personally taken a life, but my actions led to people losing their lives. It's just not something you think about. I always felt that protecting my country was one of the most honorable things I could do with my life. If you feel the same way then nothing else matters.

Armor Commanders typically live in better conditions than the infantry corps. Infantry Commanders typically get promoted faster than any other branch. I’m not sure how the Brits look at it but in the U.S., Infantry Officers stand the best chance of getting promoted into Senior Command positions. Infantry officers (early in thier career) also live in the worst conditions so you have to take the good with the bad.

Dealing with the death of a comrade is no easy task and it is exclusively an individual thing. You may not cope in the same way I do. It is unrealistic to expect otherwise. I can tell you that the first close friend I lost hit me very hard. I had known this guy for years. Had been to his home in Tennessee and even had Thanksgiving with his family on occasion. You never forget the loss. You just learn to cope with it over time. I think the most important thing you should consider is the fact that you may very well end up in a position where you must KNOWINGLY order men to their deaths. Can you face that? I pray you never have to but it is the horrific truth that any commander must face.

Killing the “enemy”. There is absolutely no way I can tell you what to expect. The first time I got into a Fire-Fight I was so pumped on adrenaline I threw up when it was over. It wasn’t the blood, or corpses that caused me to hurl. It almost felt like Throwing up after one-two-many shots of liquor. It was strange. Now, would I think twice about shooting and killing the enemy? Hell no. Is it like “spreading butter on bread”? Hardly.

PT is a good way to “connect” with your subordinates. They respect a man that can maintain the same physical standard they are required to keep. But it takes much more than that. Be firm and consistent with your men. Utilize your chain of command and listen to your NCO’s. Don’t micro-manage them. Lead them. There are tons of books written about leadership but the truth is leaders are born out of trial by fire. Not by books and schools. Your men will listen to your speeches but they will remember your actions.

Good luck.

Witmaster said it perfectly! Your men will see what you do as much as what you tell them to do! Being calm in the face of adverse actions is something that truely comes from experience. I never hurled but I felt like I had been on an ECA stack (X10) for a month! I am not sure my heart ever slowed down! I can remember my combat experiences like they were in slow motion. It is during the recall period that you can identify mistakes or misjudgements!

Call for Marker rounds ,then fire for effect! Oooooooooooooh Rahhhhhhhhhh.

I can't relate directly to the killing of people, since I haven't had the oppertunity to do so yet. But what I do know is you have to understand that it is simply a matter of kill or be killed. The enemy may/may not feel the same way, and you can't moralize a situation like that. You have a job to do, and they are preventing you from completing it.
Dealing with the death of troops that you lead is not easy, I'm not going to lie or brow beat you. But the fact of the matter is, the rest of your troop looks up to you, especially in a wartime enviroment. You are expected to be strong, and that's what being a leader is about.
Also, you asked about gaining the respect from your troops as a leader. This is something that many people have a different view on. Myself, and the way I was shown, has to do with being able to be relatable. Getting in there and getting your hands dirty with the troops. Being a leader of stature, but at the same time, the troops know they can come to you with anything. In the US military, each branch of service is different in how the troops interact with the leadership. These are just some of the ways I have chosen to lead and interact with my troops. The one thing you can never forget as an officer is, that just because you have the power and authority, that does not make you better then them. They've made the same/ or similar commitment to their country as you did.

Albob,Dougnukem, DevilDog and especially Witmaster your comments have been very helpful indeed. I've been reflecting on the questions I have asked, and I will be going to another regiment tomorrow to speak to a Captain (too long to explain) I'm going to ask him directly as well and see what he says. I think I'll be able to Subdue the enemy under fire without much regret, I'm just a little unsure on how I will react when my men die, or a close friend does, and I really don't want to appear weak at a time like that as I will have to be the pillar of strength, joining the military as an officer has a lot more implications then I originally thought.

P.S : I was told about some smart bombs the Iranian's gave the Iraqi's which Go right through Challenger tanks They kinda look cylidar in shape etc....they sound damn nasty. Damn Iranian's...don't be surprised if that is the next one on the list btw.

Originally Posted by silencer

I think I'll be able to Subdue the enemy under fire without much regret, I'm just a little unsure on how I will react when my men die, or a close friend does, and I really don't want to appear weak at a time like that as I will have to be the pillar of strength, joining the military as an officer has a lot more implications then I originally thought.

In all honesty, nobody really knows the answer to this until it actually happens to them. And even with that, everyone reacts differently. Just try not to focus on matter like that, especially right now.

"Being almost wholly composed of dullards and intellectual sluggards, [the military] is a painful hell for anyone with an IQ over 80. Be a beachcomber, a Parisian wino, an Italian pimp, or a Danish pervert; but stay away from the Armed Forces. It is a catch-all for people who regard every tomorrow as a hammer swinging at the head of a man, and whose outstanding trait is a fearful mistrust of everything out of the ordinary." HST

Originally Posted by maniclion

"Being almost wholly composed of dullards and intellectual sluggards, [the military] is a painful hell for anyone with an IQ over 80. Be a beachcomber, a Parisian wino, an Italian pimp, or a Danish pervert; but stay away from the Armed Forces. It is a catch-all for people who regard every tomorrow as a hammer swinging at the head of a man, and whose outstanding trait is a fearful mistrust of everything out of the ordinary." HST

Some of the greatest thinkers of our time have also been military minds!

Originally Posted by devildog88

Some of the greatest thinkers of our time have also been military minds!

Hence the ALMOST WHOLLY
part. I just threw that in so he would be prepared for the mental midgets who will be his superiors during his time in.

Originally Posted by maniclion

Hence the ALMOST WHOLLY
part. I just threw that in so he would be prepared for the mental midgets who will be his superiors during his time in.

I will have to agree, that some people in the military get to their supervisory positions simply by putting in their time. There is a wealth of mental midgets as well.

And then there are those (like me) who rebel against these mental midgets only to be held back and brought down for going against the grain.

Originally Posted by dougnukem

And then there are those (like me) who rebel against these mental midgets only to be held back and brought down for going against the grain.

Thats the main reason I left, those were the most frustrating 3 1/2 years of my life.

Originally Posted by silencer

Albob,Dougnukem, DevilDog and especially Witmaster your comments have been very helpful indeed. I've been reflecting on the questions I have asked, and I will be going to another regiment tomorrow to speak to a Captain (too long to explain) I'm going to ask him directly as well and see what he says. I think I'll be able to Subdue the enemy under fire without much regret, I'm just a little unsure on how I will react when my men die, or a close friend does, and I really don't want to appear weak at a time like that as I will have to be the pillar of strength, joining the military as an officer has a lot more implications then I originally thought.

P.S : I was told about some smart bombs the Iranian's gave the Iraqi's which Go right through Challenger tanks They kinda look cylidar in shape etc....they sound damn nasty. Damn Iranian's...don't be surprised if that is the next one on the list btw.

I know that shit, they are nasty as hell!
They bury those bitches at night and in the morning they'll blow the shit out of some people.

Originally Posted by maniclion

Thats the main reason I left, those were the most frustrating 3 1/2 years of my life.

Yea, there are times I feel that way too. But I stay in for the same reason. Just to piss them off even more.

Originally Posted by Witmaster

Armor Commanders typically live in better conditions than the infantry corps. Infantry Commanders typically get promoted faster than any other branch. I’m not sure how the Brits look at it but in the U.S., Infantry Officers stand the best chance of getting promoted into Senior Command positions. Infantry officers (early in thier career) also live in the worst conditions so you have to take the good with the bad.

Dealing with the death of a comrade is no easy task and it is exclusively an individual thing. You may not cope in the same way I do. It is unrealistic to expect otherwise. I can tell you that the first close friend I lost hit me very hard. I had known this guy for years. Had been to his home in Tennessee and even had Thanksgiving with his family on occasion. You never forget the loss. You just learn to cope with it over time. I think the most important thing you should consider is the fact that you may very well end up in a position where you must KNOWINGLY order men to their deaths. Can you face that? I pray you never have to but it is the horrific truth that any commander must face.

Killing the “enemy”. There is absolutely no way I can tell you what to expect. The first time I got into a Fire-Fight I was so pumped on adrenaline I threw up when it was over. It wasn’t the blood, or corpses that caused me to hurl. It almost felt like Throwing up after one-two-many shots of liquor. It was strange. Now, would I think twice about shooting and killing the enemy? Hell no. Is it like “spreading butter on bread”? Hardly.

PT is a good way to “connect” with your subordinates. They respect a man that can maintain the same physical standard they are required to keep. But it takes much more than that. Be firm and consistent with your men. Utilize your chain of command and listen to your NCO’s. Don’t micro-manage them. Lead them. There are tons of books written about leadership but the truth is leaders are born out of trial by fire. Not by books and schools. Your men will listen to your speeches but they will remember your actions.

Good luck.

Just out of curiosity, What's all of that?

In a combat situation the enemy isn't a person, you don't think before killing them, they are an obstacle in the way of your ultimate goal. You have to seperate your emotions and complete the objective. When in combat some people learn to be completely cold in combat and some go home and cry about the dozens of people they've killed for the rest of their life.

If you can't seperate the two you'll be pretty broken up about killing all the people you will have to. It takes practice to find that place in your head where you don't feel anything and even more to turn it off and on.

Originally Posted by maniclion

"Being almost wholly composed of dullards and intellectual sluggards, [the military] is a painful hell for anyone with an IQ over 80. Be a beachcomber, a Parisian wino, an Italian pimp, or a Danish pervert; but stay away from the Armed Forces. It is a catch-all for people who regard every tomorrow as a hammer swinging at the head of a man, and whose outstanding trait is a fearful mistrust of everything out of the ordinary." HST

Hmmm. I'm calling BULLSHIT on this one.

There's no doubt that we have our share of dullards and intellectual sluggards, but frankly, I find more of that sort seem to reside outside the ranks of the military rather than within.

I'm sorry your impressive 3.5 year stint in the service left you with such a poor attitude about the military but I would ask you to kindly consider not lumping the "ALMOST WHOLLY" part of the military into your castigating opinions. I hardly think that 3.5 years would afford you the complete exposure of the ranks to levy such a judgement

Nah I have to agree with him, military is chalk full of flipping dumbasses who barely can speak, it was like one long ebonics lesson in boot camp.

Unit, shorten your stupid ass signature. Every time you post, I read through half the damn thing before realizing what it is.

Originally Posted by THEUNIT(XXL)

Just out of curiosity, What's all of that?

PT: Physical Training
NCO: Non-Commissioned Officer (The guys who REALLY get things done. )

Originally Posted by Tier

Nah I have to agree with him, military is chalk full of flipping dumbasses who barely can speak, it was like one long ebonics lesson in boot camp.

Boot Camp isn't a good representation of the entire force. Like Witmaster said, there are some dullards in the ranks, but they're in the minority. You just hear about them more because they're constantly in the spotlight. You know, BAD news is what gets reported. Meanwhile the vast majority of the troops just goes about their days, quietly doing VERY good work. If you'll check the stats you'll find the educational level of our armed forces has steadily gone up for over 20 years.

Originally Posted by ALBOB

Boot Camp isn't a good representation of the entire force. Like Witmaster said, there are some dullards in the ranks, but they're in the minority. You just hear about them more because they're constantly in the spotlight. You know, BAD news is what gets reported. Meanwhile the vast majority of the troops just goes about their days, quietly doing VERY good work. If you'll check the stats you'll find the educational level of our armed forces has steadily gone up for over 20 years.

That, and it's like trying to compare apples to oranges. Each branch of service has it's distinctions of who is bright and who is not so bright. Just like each individual career field is different. For instance, the required scores on the ASVAB (entry test for those not in the know) are lower for certain career fields then others, but does that make the people in those career fields dumber then others? No, it doesn't. I used to think so, until I met enough folks to get an honest impression of others. But I did see someone mention NCOs, and as a fellow NCO myself, I agree that we are the true leadership that gets the dirty work done.

Originally Posted by ALBOB

If you'll check the stats you'll find the educational level of our armed forces has steadily gone up for over 20 years.

That may be the case but I had the unlucky roll of the die to get a division of 15+ lifers all short timers most of whom had joined the Navy as deck seamen and later became Radiomen when the Nav was desperate for them. Not to mention my Chief was a complete asshole psychotic with delusions of grandeur who could tell a fable with a straight face like the time he told everyone he'd been in Maui for the past 2 weeks with Bill Gates helping him install his network security system at his home, Bill then flew him back to Honolulu on his private helicopter and even let him fly over Pearl Harbor. I am dead serious this guy was off the scales insane and he made my life a living hell because I knew computers better than him and even found his hidden journal files on our SECRET mesage routing PC which I should have had him busted for since no one was supposed to be using it for anything other than message routing and I know he had the folder shared so he could access it from the Main Server.

Originally Posted by maniclion

Not to mention my Chief was a complete asshole psychotic with delusions of grandeur

Charlie Murphy had delusions of grandeur, that's why Rick James had to go up side his head from time to time.