Thread: Ethnic IQ Variation Is Not Genetic

It's cultural.

Group Differences Around the World (1)

-......................High IQ/grades,....................... Low IQ/grades,
Country ............Dominant class ..................Discriminated class
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Australia-------------- Whites ---------------------Aborigines
Belgium------------- French ------------------------Flemish
Czechoslovakia --------Slovaks---------------------- Gypsies
Great Britain ---------English---------------------- Irish, Scottish
India ---------------Nontribals--------------------- Tribal people
High------------------ caste --------------------------Low caste
Israel ---------------Jews ------------------------------Arabs
..................... Western Jews ----------------------Eastern Jews
...........................Brahmin------------------------------ Harijan
Japan --------------Non-Burakumin----------------------- Burakumin
--------------------Japanese origin------------------- Korean origin
New Zealand---------- Whites----------------------------- Maoris
Northern Ireland-------- Protestants ---------------------Catholics
South Africa--------- English ------------------Afrikaaners (Dutch)
United States ----------Whites-------------------------- Blacks
------------------------Whites --------------------------Latinos
-------------------------Whites --------------------American Indians

Racist.

Originally Posted by min0 lee

Myth: Some ethnic groups have genetically inferior IQ's.

Fact: Poverty creates large IQ differences even between groups of the same ethnicity.



Summary

There are too many examples of discriminated minorities even within ethnic groups that score worse on IQ tests to believe the myth that the differences are genetic.



Argument

On average, African-Americans score 7 to 15 points lower than European-Americans on IQ tests. Many conservatives believe this is because blacks are genetically inferior to whites. But liberals believe that the IQ gap is the result of nearly three centuries of slavery and yet another 130 years of segregation and institutionalized racism. Even the Civil Rights Act and affirmative action have not eliminated discrimination against blacks -- they've merely reduced it somewhat. The result of this discrimination is that a disproportionate percentage of blacks work at lower-paying jobs, live in poverty and squalor, lack health care and child care, and do not receive the quality of education and personal development available to richer members of society. All these deprivations work to suppress IQ and educational achievement in children during their critical developmental years.

Which viewpoint is correct? The answer becomes obvious when you compare the lower IQ results of other discriminated minorities around the world, many of whom are of the same genetic stock.

Perhaps the most dramatic example is the Northern Irish. Even though they come from the same ethnic group, Catholics (the discriminated minority) score 15 points lower on IQ tests than Protestants.

In the U.S., both Korean and Japanese students score above average in IQ tests; many scholars agree that, genetically, they are about as close as two ethnic groups can get. But the Korean minority living in Japan scores much lower on IQ tests than the Japanese. Why? The Japanese are extremely racist towards Koreans; they view them as stupid and violent, and employ them only in the dirtiest and lowest-paying jobs. Tensions are so great between the two groups that violence often erupts in the form of riots.

In the U.S., Polish Jews arriving before 1910 were also perceived as stupid (for no other reason than they were accustomed to a different culture and spoke another language). So many "Pollock" jokes arose that Americans still tell them to this day, even if no one remembers why. The Polish Jews suffered heavy job discrimination and suspicion of criminality; not surprisingly, their children suffered low grades and IQ test scores. Today, of course, many Americans hold the opposite prejudice; Jews are viewed as the most brilliant of ethnic groups.

Russian-born Jews who became American soldiers in World War I also scored low on IQ tests. So low, in fact, that Carl Brigham, the creator of the Scholastic Aptitude Test, declared that the results "disprove the popular belief that the Jew is highly intelligent."

There are countless examples around the world where the dominant ethnic group scores higher on IQ tests than the discriminated minority, even when the two groups are of the same ethnic stock. Here is a partial list:

my IQ is 78

Originally Posted by wetnwild

my IQ is 78

really?

Many conservatives argue that people who are smarter tend to go on to college more, and because whites are more intelligent than blacks, there are more whites in college. But regardless of the reason why this is so, it cannot be because of a genetic edge in intelligence. Consider the following information from the U.S. Census on the breakdown of white students who have graduated with a B.A. from college:
Proportions of Americans who have completed college by self-identified ancestries (2).

French-Canadian --- 16.7 percent.
Dutch ---- 18.5.
Italian ----------21.0.
Irish ----- 21.2.
German --------- 22.0.
Finnish -------- 24.2.
Norwegian -------- 26.0.
Danish --------- 27.4.
Swedish -------- 27.4.
Scotch-Irish --------- 28.2.
English ----------- 28.4.
Welsh --------- 31.8.
Scottish ------------- 33.6.
Russian ----------- 49.0



All the above are at least third-generation Americans, which would give them sufficient time to join the college caste. Is it really reasonable to blame the above differences on genetics? Notice that the Scottish have nearly twice the college attendance as the Dutch, even though their ancestors lived right across the Channel…

Most geneticists agree that there is far more genetic variation within groups than between groups. According to one commonly cited study, 85% of all human genetic variation is intra-population, 7% intra-race and only 8% inter-racial. (3)

I like this thread. Saying that IQ is some how based on ethnicity is total bullshit.

the tests are probably biased!

United States ----------Whites-------------------------- Blacks
------------------------Whites --------------------------Latinos
-------------------------Whites --------------------American Indians

The Asians score the highest in the U.S. I believe and this is primarily in the non-verbal portion (math part) of the test.

Originally Posted by DOMS

Racist.

Originally Posted by gococksDJS

I like this thread. Saying that IQ is some how based on ethnicity is total bullshit.

Very true....I'm white and have an IQ lower than 98% of all Blacks.

Originally Posted by ForemanRules

Very true....I'm white and have an IQ lower than 98% of all Blacks.

What is it? You ever gotten it tested?

Originally Posted by gococksDJS

What is it? You ever gotten it tested?

120

^ IQ tests can change over time. Some people even study for them.

The seem to measure some cognitive abilities, but I wouldn't stake my life on an IQ score.

Originally Posted by ForemanRules

120

120 is pretty darn good.

Originally Posted by ForemanRules

120

That's in the top 6.7%

Originally Posted by Mr_Snafu

^ IQ tests can change over time. Some people even study for them.

The seem to measure some cognitive abilities, but I wouldn't stake my life on an IQ score.

Why would someone try and study for an IQ test? I mean, if it doesn't mean anything, what are they trying to accomplish by studying for it?

Do you remember which test you took foreman?

Originally Posted by Mr_Snafu

^ IQ tests can change over time. Some people even study for them.

The seem to measure some cognitive abilities, but I wouldn't stake my life on an IQ score.

I agree 100%

Originally Posted by gococksDJS

I like this thread. Saying that IQ is some how based on ethnicity is total bullshit.

It's not the genes, it's the culture.

Originally Posted by MyK

I agree 100%

Have you ever taken one?

Originally Posted by gococksDJS

Have you ever taken one?

yes in grade 10. they tested all of the high school kids in ontario

Originally Posted by MyK

yes in grade 10. they tested all of the high school kids in ontario

Damn, why did they test everone in Ontario? What did you get if you don't mind me asking?

Originally Posted by DOMS

It's not the genes, it's the culture.

I agree, but I would say that the questions are written in one culture (white) which gives that culture an advantage. just look at how well the asian kids do on math (a more universal language) versus the written component.

Originally Posted by gococksDJS

Damn, why did they test everone in Ontario? What did you get if you don't mind me asking?

120

they used the tests to find the lower kids in the population, so they could filter them into a skilled trade, and they would be a productive member of society

Originally Posted by MyK

I agree, but I would say that the questions are written in one culture (white) which gives that culture an advantage. just look at how well the asian kids do on math (a more universal language) versus the written component.

Asians are tought to remember facts, whereas Whites are, generally, taught to problem solve and do original thinking.

Originally Posted by gococksDJS

Do you remember which test you took foreman?

I took several of them....that is just the average of my scores

Have no idea what the names of the tests were