Thread: Okay, read and discuss this...

Great read.....but I think the war was lost years ago.

It is everywhere, not just America. France, Italy and other developed nations face the same problem of immigration. But they would not have this problem if the other nations had some way to offer good jobs, education and health to their people.

Why the rich nations dont help to solve this problem then?

Victor Hansen Davis is a far right ideologue. He's a neocon that shoots first and . . .that's all. He's an authoritarian fatalist at heart. He has a gift for moronic and histrionic statements. I think that's evidenced by the "it (immigration) would march across the country until it destroyed all vestiges of The American Dream." That is patently asinine. He's out of his fucking mind.

I know that's highbrow criticism but it had to be said. This country was built on immigration and continues to do so. The same shit he spouts was said about the polish and the irish years back.

Ok, I can see the danger represented by the Irish but still. . .

The entire article is alot to comment on but most of it is in the spirit of fearmongering and overstatements. If balkanization of a population via recalcitrant and reluctant monolingual ethnic groups is the sign of The End, then we are already there. The upshot is, is that assimilation does work and is most effective for achieving the most success in this country.

Anyways, when it comes down to it, multiculturalism is defined by these dudes as pure relativism. I have a hard time finding anyone that believes that w/ credibility or that its believed on a widespread basis. Look, the PC crowd had its day in the sun a decade ago. That shit had a short shelf life.

Originally Posted by Decker

Victor Hansen Davis is a far right ideologue. He's a neocon that shoots first and . . .that's all. He's an authoritarian fatalist at heart. He has a gift for moronic and histrionic statements. I think that's evidenced by the "it (immigration) would march across the country until it destroyed all vestiges of The American Dream." That is patently asinine. He's out of his fucking mind.

I know that's highbrow criticism but it had to be said. This country was built on immigration and continues to do so. The same shit he spouts was said about the polish and the irish years back.

Ok, I can see the danger represented by the Irish but still. . .

The entire article is alot to comment on but most of it is in the spirit of fearmongering and overstatements. If balkanization of a population via recalcitrant and reluctant monolingual ethnic groups is the sign of The End, then we are already there. The upshot is, is that assimilation does work and is most effective for achieving the most success in this country.

Anyways, when it comes down to it, multiculturalism is defined by these dudes as pure relativism. I have a hard time finding anyone that believes that w/ credibility or that its believed on a widespread basis. Look, the PC crowd had its day in the sun a decade ago. That shit had a short shelf life.

Rob's leftist, and he's reading articles by guys like this...

Originally Posted by Robert DiMaggio

Think something like this isn't happening? Scary, it is happening as you read this...

We know Dick Lamm as the former Governor of Colorado. In that context his thoughts are particularly poignant. Last week there was an immigration over-population conference in Washington, DC, filled to capacity by many of American's finest minds and leaders. A brilliant college professor by the name of Victor Hansen Davis talked about his latest book, "Mexifornia," explaining how immigration - both legal and illegal - was destroying the entire state of California. He said it would march across the country until it destroyed all vestiges of The American Dream.

Moments later, former Colorado Governor Richard D. Lamm stood up and gave a stunning speech on how to destroy America. The audience sat spellbound as he described eight methods for the destruction of the United States. He said, If you believe that America is too smug, too self-satisfied, too rich, then let's destroy America. It is not that hard to do. No nation in history has survived the ravages of time Arnold Toynbee observed that all great civilizations rise and fall and that 'An autopsy of history would show that all great nations commit suicide."

Here is how they do it," Lamm said:

"First, to destroy America, turn America into a bilingual or multi-lingual and bicultural country." History shows that no nation can survive the tension, conflict, and antagonism of two or more competing languages and cultures. It is a blessing for an individual to be bilingual; however, it is a curse for a society to be bilingual. The historical scholar, Seymour Lipset, put it this way: "The histories of bilingual and bi-cultural societies that do not assimilate are histories of turmoil, tension, and tragedy." Canada, Belgium, Malaysia, and Lebanon all face crises of national existence in which minorities press for autonomy, if not independence. Pakistan and Cyprus have divided. Nigeria suppressed an ethnic rebellion. France faces difficulties with Basques, Bretons, and Corsicans."

Lamm went on: Second, to destroy America, "Invent 'multiculturalism' and encourage immigrants to maintain their culture. I would make it an article of belief that all cultures are equal. That there are no cultural differences. I would make it an article of faith that the Black and Hispanic dropout rates are due solely to prejudice and discrimination by the majority. Every other explanation is out of bounds.

Third, "We could make the United States a 'Hispanic Quebec' without much effort. The key is to celebrate diversity rather than unity. As Benjamin Schwarz said in the Atlantic Monthly recently: "The apparent success of our own multiethnic and multi-cultural experiment might have been achieved not by tolerance but by hegemony. Without the dominance that once dictated ethnocentricity and what it meant to be an American, we are left with only tolerance and pluralism to hold us together." Lamm said, "I would encourage all immigrants to keep their own language and culture. I would replace the melting pot metaphor with the salad bowl metaphor. It is important to ensure that we have various cultural subgroups living in America enforcing their differences rather than as Americans, emphasizing their similarities."

"Fourth, I would make our fastest growing demographic group the least educated. I would add a second underclass, unassimilated, undereducated, and antagonistic to our population. I would have this second underclass have a 50% dropout rate from high school"

"My fifth point for destroying America would be to get big foundations and business to give these efforts lots of money. I would invest in ethnic identity, and I would establish the cult of 'Victimology.' I would get all minorities to think that their lack of success was the fault of the majority I would start a grievance industry blaming all minority failure on the majority population."

"My sixth plan for America's downfall would include dual citizenship, and promote divided loyalties. I would celebrate diversity over unity. I would stress differences rather than similarities. Diverse people worldwide are mostly engaged in hating each other - that is, when they are not killing each other. A. diverse, peaceful, or stable society is against most historical precedent. People undervalue the unity it takes to keep a nation together. Look at the ancient Greeks. The Greeks believed that they belonged to the same race; they possessed a common language and literature; and they worshiped the same gods. All Greece took part in the Olympic games. A common enemy, Persia, threatened their liberty. Yet all these bonds were not strong enough to overcome two factors: local patriotism and geographical conditions that nurtured political divisions. Greece fell. E. Pluribus Unum" -- From many, one. In that historical reality, if we put the emphasis on the 'pluribs'. instead of the 'Unum,' we will balkanize America as surely as Kosovo."

"Next to last, I would place all subjects off limits; make it taboo to talk about anything against the cult of 'diversity.' I would find a word similar to 'heretic' in the 16th century - that stopped discussion and paralyzed thinking. Words like 'racist' or 'xenophobe' halt discussion and debate. Having made America a bilingual/bicultural country, having established multi-culturism, having the large foundations fund the doctrine of 'Victimology,' I would next make it impossible to enforce our immigration laws. I would develop a mantra: That because immigration has been good for America, it must always be good. I would make every individual immigrant symmetric and ignore the cumulative impact of millions of them."

In the last minute of his speech, Governor Lamm wiped his brow. Profound silence followed. Finally he said,. "Lastly, I would censor Victor Hanson Davis's book Mexifornia. His book is dangerous. It exposes the plan to destroy America. If you feel America. deserves to be destroyed, don't read that book."

There was no applause. A chilling fear quietly rose like an ominous cloud above every attendee at the conference. Every American in that room knew that everything Lamm enumerated was proceeding methodically, quietly, darkly yet pervasively across the United States today. Discussion is being suppressed. Over 100 languages are ripping the foundation of our educational system and national cohesiveness. Barbaric cultures that practice female genital mutilation are growing as we celebrate 'diversity.' American jobs are vanishing into the Third World as corporations create a Third World in. America - take note of California and other states - to date, ten million illegal aliens and growing fast. It is reminiscent of George Orwell's book 1984." In that story, three slogans are engraved in the Ministry of Truth building: "War is peace," "Freedom is slavery," and "Ignorance is strength."

Governor Lamm walked back to his seat. It dawned on everyone at the conference that our nation and the future of this great democracy is deeply in trouble and worsening fast if we don't get this immigration monster stopped within three years, it will rage like a California wildfire and destroy everything in its path, especially The American Dream .

I'm sorry, can you make a longer post?

Originally Posted by Crono1000

I'm sorry, can you make a longer post?

I agree with his 4th and 6th points....everything was GARBAGE! what a nutbag.

I am assuming that's wahy he's the former gov.

the U.S should do what mexico does if your not a mexican citizen.

1) your only allowed here for 3 days. After that you have to have what is called a FM3 permit to live her a year at a time. You do this for 5 years and then you go to a FM2 permit for 5 years. The FM3 permit is about $150 per person plus the cost of an attorney to do the paperwork. The FM2 is twice the cost.

2) Now the only way to get these permits is
2A) Have to have bank statements showing a min deposit of $1500 made from the U.S (not Mexico) a months going into your U.S bank acct for 6 months. You have to prove you have a lease on mexican property and a electric bill.

3) you want a Mexican dr lic, you better know how to read and write spanish cause they don't have it any other way but in spanish.

4) Here's a kicker for you. American's are not allowed to work in mexico. Only Mexican citizens

Originally Posted by Tough Old Man

the U.S should do what mexico does if your not a mexican citizen.

1) your only allowed here for 3 days. After that you have to have what is called a FM3 permit to live her a year at a time. You do this for 5 years and then you go to a FM2 permit for 5 years. The FM3 permit is about $150 per person plus the cost of an attorney to do the paperwork. The FM2 is twice the cost.

2) Now the only way to get these permits is
2A) Have to have bank statements showing a min deposit of $1500 made from the U.S (not Mexico) a months going into your U.S bank acct for 6 months. You have to prove you have a lease on mexican property and a electric bill.

3) you want a Mexican dr lic, you better know how to read and write spanish cause they don't have it any other way but in spanish.

That's the way it should be.

4) Here's a kicker for you. American's are not allowed to work in mexico. Only Mexican citizens

Unreal, unfair.

Originally Posted by Tough Old Man

the U.S should do what mexico does if your not a mexican citizen.

1) your only allowed here for 3 days. After that you have to have what is called a FM3 permit to live her a year at a time. You do this for 5 years and then you go to a FM2 permit for 5 years. The FM3 permit is about $150 per person plus the cost of an attorney to do the paperwork. The FM2 is twice the cost.

2) Now the only way to get these permits is
2A) Have to have bank statements showing a min deposit of $1500 made from the U.S (not Mexico) a months going into your U.S bank acct for 6 months. You have to prove you have a lease on mexican property and a electric bill.

3) you want a Mexican dr lic, you better know how to read and write spanish cause they don't have it any other way but in spanish.

4) Here's a kicker for you. American's are not allowed to work in mexico. Only Mexican citizens

no shit.....I didn't know that.

thanks for the info That influences my viewpoint

Originally Posted by Tough Old Man

4) Here's a kicker for you. American's are not allowed to work in mexico. Only Mexican citizens

that is not true.

I just got done rubbing one out.

Originally Posted by topolo

I just got done rubbing one out.

Don't you think it is time for some new material son.

Originally Posted by topolo

I just got done rubbing one out.

me too

Originally Posted by Robert DiMaggio

that is not true.

Sure it is. You can own a business but can't work it. Now there is one exception. That you specialize in some type of art where the can't find a Mexican nationalist to do the job.
I own a business down here in Baja Robert and I'm not even allowed to work it. Here's another for you. If I hired lets say a manager and could prove that he specializes in something and is needed permanently, I would also have to hire 20 Mexican nationalist permanently to keep that one white boy. 20 for 1.

well, that is interesting because I have been to Cancun 3 times and spoke with many Americans that were living and working down there.

Originally Posted by ForemanRules

Don't you think it is time for some new material son.

No you whore, I don't.

Originally Posted by Robert DiMaggio

well, that is interesting because I have been to Cancun 3 times and spoke with many Americans that were living and working down there.

Robert just like anywhere, you can work, but is it legal.

I'm talking about the mexican law. Hell I have done some odd's and end jobs down here like when I tiled my brothers house. But it wasn't legal for me to do it. If I would have got caught, they could have revoked my Fm3 card and ran me out of Mexico should they choose to.

"...I woke up screamin fucc the world"

Originally Posted by Tough Old Man

Robert just like anywhere, you can work, but is it legal.

well, I am talking about people (Americans) that I met at some of the resorts, so I would assume they were working there legally.

Originally Posted by Decker

I know that's highbrow criticism but it had to be said. This country was built on immigration and continues to do so. The same shit he spouts was said about the polish and the irish years back.

Apples and oranges counselor, apples and oranges. The immigrants you're speaking of were proud to come here and BECOME Americans. They learned the language, they learned the history, they learned the Democratic system, they BECAME Americans. What's being warned against in the article is immigrants coming here and trying to make this country something that it isn't/was never meant to be, a NON-homoenous blob of a thousand different cultures. Sure, know your roots. Be proud of your heritage. But don't try to force those things onto all of America, that's not why she exists.

I'm moving to Portugal!

Originally Posted by ALBOB

Apples and oranges counselor, apples and oranges. The immigrants you're speaking of were proud to come here and BECOME Americans. They learned the language, they learned the history, they learned the Democratic system, they BECAME Americans. What's being warned against in the article is immigrants coming here and trying to make this country something that it isn't/was never meant to be, a NON-homoenous blob of a thousand different cultures. Sure, know your roots. Be proud of your heritage. But don't try to force those things onto all of America, that's not why she exists.

Your saying that those Mexicans are not assimilating into our culture....from my experience they sure are.

It takes a generation to integrate. There are still Polish that never learned how to speak in English in Chicago and Hamtramck. I think they are not apples and oranges. THey are the same unskilled immigrants. If they ever want to move the economic ladder than they will have to learn and become integrated Americans; otherwise, they will be cutting grass and putting up dry wall forever....kind of like the Irish laying down railroad tracks.

Originally Posted by ALBOB

Sure, know your roots. Be proud of your heritage. But don't try to force those things onto all of America, that's not why she exists.

Unless you are a White Christian, then it is fine.

Originally Posted by lnvanry

Your saying that those Mexicans are not assimilating into our culture....from my experience they sure are.

It takes a generation to integrate. There are still Polish that never learned how to speak in English in Chicago and Hamtramck. I think they are not apples and oranges. THey are the same unskilled immigrants. If they ever want to move the economic ladder than they will have to learn and become integrated Americans; otherwise, they will be cutting grass and putting up dry wall forever....kind of like the Irish laying down railroad tracks.

You just made the original speaker's point, the way for people to tear down this country is to NOT become part of it. Those that have chosen NOT to become part of this country have and will remain on the lower end of the prosperity scale. (With a few exceptions.) The more of those people you have, the more your country is divided, the more your country suffers.

Originally Posted by lnvanry

Your saying that those Mexicans are not assimilating into our culture....from my experience they sure are.

It takes a generation to integrate. There are still Polish that never learned how to speak in English in Chicago and Hamtramck. I think they are not apples and oranges. THey are the same unskilled immigrants. If they ever want to move the economic ladder than they will have to learn and become integrated Americans; otherwise, they will be cutting grass and putting up dry wall forever....kind of like the Irish laying down railroad tracks.

I don't thin those people are trying that hard to assimilate. How long have those polish people been here? So it takes 30 years to learn the English language. There are people who try, but for every couple that are trying, there are several whose only English consists of foodstamp and welfare.

The difference between then and now is the US, not the immigrants. There is no difference between Mexicans now and Irish in the 19th Century.
Back then, it was a struggle to survive for immigrants. Not just Irish, I am using them only for example; there were many different races of immigrants just like the Irish coming in at the time.
There were no welfare programs.
There were no free grants for free college education.
There was no socialized healthcare.
There was no Medicare.
There were no unemployment benefits.
The list goes on and on and on.

Immigrants had to fight, scratch, and reach deep within them to find the strength to make a better life for themselves. This of course is all back when America was purely capitalist, and government give-away programs were unheard of. The people back then knew that if they didn't do it for themselves that their family would starve. That was a huge fucking motivation to excel.

Fast forward to today where America is approaching a socialist government more and more everyday. We took a good idea of give to those who can't do for themselves, and changed it to give to those who just don't want to do for themselves. The immigrants coming here see this, and aren't going to do what it takes to excel, because they don't have to. You don't even have to be an American citizen to collect state and federal benefits for your children when you make less than the national poverty per capita.

I do not blame the immigrants. None of this is their fault. They are simply doing what any fucking human being would do in their situation, and that is going wherever you have to make a better life for yourself.
I blame the US government, and most of all I blame the US citizens for allowing our government to do it.
I have no problem with citizens of any race trying to become a member of our great country, but I demand that it be done the correct way through the proper channels.
I think that the border must be better defended, all government programs for illegal aliens should be wiped out, but getting into the country legally should be made easier.
I believe that immigrants should have to live in the US the seven years before they receive any local, state, or federal aid, which would tell you which ones were serious about making a better life for themselves, and the ones would just be a burden on our economy.