No WMDs in Iraq?

**bigss75** · 06-21-2006, 09:07 PM

Sarin, Mustard Gas Discovered Separately in Iraq

BAGHDAD, Iraq — A roadside bomb containing sarin nerve agent recently exploded near a U.S. military convoy, the U.S. military said Monday.

Bush administration officials told Fox News that mustard gas was also recently discovered.

Two people were treated for "minor exposure" after the sarin incident but no serious injuries were reported. Soldiers transporting the shell for inspection suffered symptoms consistent with low-level chemical exposure, which is what led to the discovery, a U.S. official told Fox News.

"The Iraqi Survey Group confirmed today that a 155-millimeter artillery round containing sarin nerve agent had been found," Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt (search), the chief military spokesman in Iraq, told reporters in Baghdad. "The round had been rigged as an IED (improvised explosive device) which was discovered by a U.S. force convoy."

The round detonated before it would be rendered inoperable, Kimmitt said, which caused a "very small dispersal of agent."

However, Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld said the results were from a field test, which can be imperfect, and said more analysis was needed. If confirmed, it would be the first finding of a banned weapon upon which the United States based its case for war.

A senior Bush administration official told Fox News that the sarin gas shell is the second chemical weapon discovered recently.

Two weeks ago, U.S. military units discovered mustard gas that was used as part of an IED. Tests conducted by the Iraqi Survey Group — a U.S. organization searching for weapons of mass destruction — and others concluded the mustard gas was "stored improperly," which made the gas "ineffective."

They believe the mustard gas shell may have been one of 550 projectiles for which former Iraqi President Saddam Hussein failed to account when he made his weapons declaration shortly before Operation Iraqi Freedom began last year. Iraq also failed to then account for 450 aerial bombs with mustard gas. That, combined with the shells, totaled about 80 tons of unaccounted for mustard gas.

It also appears some top Pentagon officials were surprised by the sarin news; they thought the matter was classified, administration officials told Fox News.

An official at the U.N. Monitoring, Verification and Inspection Commission (UNMOVIC) headquarters in New York said the commission is surprised to hear news of the mustard gas.

"If that's the case, why didn't they announce it earlier?" the official asked.

The UNMOVIC official said the group needs to know more from the Bush administration before it's possible to determine if this is "old or new stuff. It is known that Iraq used sarin during the Iraq-Iran war, however.

Kimmitt said the shell belonged to a class of ordnance that Saddam's government said was destroyed before the 1991 Gulf war. Experts believe both the sarin and mustard gas weapons date back to that time.

"It was a weapon that we believe was stocked from the ex-regime time and it had been thought to be an ordinary artillery shell set up to explode like an ordinary IED and basically from the detection of that and when it exploded, it indicated that it actually had some sarin in it," Kimmitt said.

The incident occurred "a couple of days ago," he added. The discovery reportedly occurred near Baghdad International Airport.

Washington officials say the significance of the find is that some chemical shells do still exist in Iraq, and it's thought that fighters there may be upping their attacks on U.S. forces by using such weapons.

The round was an old "binary-type" shell in which two chemicals held in separate sections are mixed after firing to produce sarin, Kimmitt said.

He said he believed that insurgents who rigged the artillery shell as a bomb didn't know it contained the nerve agent, and that the dispersal of the nerve agent from such a rigged device was very limited.

The shell had no markings. It appears the binary sarin agents didn't mix, which is why there weren't serious injuries from the initial explosion, a U.S. official told Fox News.

"Everybody knew Saddam had chemical weapons, the question was, where did they go. Unfortunately, everybody jumped on the offramp and said 'well, because we didn't find them, he didn't have them,'" said Fox News military analyst Lt. Gen. Tom McInerney.

"I doubt if it's the tip of the iceberg but it does confirm what we've known ... that he [Saddam] had weapons of mass destruction that he used on his own people," Sen. Charles Grassley, R-Iowa, told Fox News. "This does show that the fear we had is very real. Now whether there is much more of this we don't know, Iraq is the size of the state of California."

But there were more reasons than weapons to get rid of Saddam, he added. "We considered Saddam Hussein a threat not just because of weapons of mass destruction," Grassley said.

Iraqi Scientist: You Will Find More

Gazi George, a former Iraqi nuclear scientist under Saddam's regime, told Fox News he believes many similar weapons stockpiled by the former regime were either buried underground or transported to Syria. He noted that the airport where the device was detonated is on the way to Baghdad from the Syrian border.

George said the finding likely will be the first in a series of discoveries of such weapons.

"Saddam is the type who will not store those materials in a military warehouse. He's gonna store them either underground, or, as I said, lots of them have gone west to Syria and are being brought back with the insurgencies," George told Fox News. "It is difficult to look in areas that are not obvious to the military's eyes.

"I'm sure they're going to find more once time passes," he continued, saying one year is not enough for the survey group or the military to find the weapons.

Saddam, when he was in power, had declared that he did in fact possess mustard-gas filled artilleries but none that included sarin.

"I think what we found today, the sarin in some ways, although it's a nerve gas, it's a lucky situation sarin detonated in the way it did ... it's not as dangerous as the cocktails Saddam used to make, mixing blister" agents with other gases and substances, George said.

Officials: Discovery Is 'Significant'

U.S. officials told Fox News that the shell discovery is a "significant" event.

Artillery shells of the 155-mm size are as big as it gets when it comes to the ordnance lobbed by infantry-based artillery units. The 155 howitzer can launch high capacity shells over several miles; current models used by the United States can fire shells as far as 14 miles. One official told Fox News that a conventional 155-mm shell could hold as much as "two to five" liters of sarin, which is capable of killing thousands of people under the right conditions in highly populated areas.

The Iraqis were very capable of producing such shells in the 1980s but it's not as clear that they continued after the first Gulf War.

In 1995, Japan's Aum Shinrikyo cult unleashed sarin gas in Tokyo's subways, killing 12 people and sickening thousands. In February of this year, Japanese courts convicted the cult's former leader, Shoko Asahara, and sentence him to be executed.

Developed in the mid-1930s by Nazi scientists, a single drop of sarin can cause quick, agonizing choking death. There are no known instances of the Nazis actually using the gas.

Nerve gases work by inhibiting key enzymes in the nervous system, blocking their transmission. Small exposures can be treated with antidotes, if administered quickly.

Antidotes to nerve gases similar to sarin are so effective that top poison gas researchers predict they eventually will cease to be a war threat.

Fox News' Wendell Goler, Steve Harrigan, Ian McCaleb, Liza Porteus, James Rosen and The Associated Press contributed to this report.

**min0 lee** · 06-21-2006, 09:11 PM

Now they find it?

I'm still waiting for the real WMD who had the bastards fly into the Twins.

**skaterdude** · 06-21-2006, 09:12 PM

I knew it!

**topolo** · 06-21-2006, 10:08 PM

They will find more.

**min0 lee** · 06-21-2006, 10:13 PM

Cool, now on to North Korea.
It's time to fight someone more competative.

**DOMS** · 06-21-2006, 10:14 PM

Originally Posted by min0 lee

Cool, now on to North Korea.
It's time to fight someone more competative.

Competitive? All we have to do is stop giving them money and they'll die of starvation.

**topolo** · 06-21-2006, 10:14 PM

Originally Posted by min0 lee

Cool, now on to North Korea.
It's time to fight someone more competative.

We should fight Micronesia.

**TJ Cline** · 06-21-2006, 10:32 PM

Not a WMD in my book, but still I'm sure they planted it.

**lnvanry** · 06-21-2006, 10:44 PM

Originally Posted by ForemanRules

Not a WMD in my book, but still I'm sure they planted it.

right

**bigss75** · 06-21-2006, 10:50 PM

Definition of WMD: a weapon that kills or injures civilian as well as military personnel (nuclear and chemical and biological weapons).

Sarin: A poisonous liquid, C4H10FO2P, that inhibits the activity of cholinesterase and is used as a nerve gas in chemical warfare.

Mustard Gas: An oily, volatile liquid, (ClCH2CH2)2S, that is corrosive to the skin and mucous membranes and causes severe, sometimes fatal respiratory damage. It was introduced in World War I as a chemical warfare agent.

**TJ Cline** · 06-21-2006, 11:56 PM

The sell was nuclear weapons and the score is still 0

**Tough Old Man** · 06-21-2006, 11:57 PM

I say we nuke every country and then in 30 yrs we place all the imigrants equally divided into them.

What a fix, What a country

**lnvanry** · 06-22-2006, 12:08 AM

Originally Posted by ForemanRules

The sell was nuclear weapons and the score is still 0

foreman, the sell was NEVER soley nukes....in fact most people doubted nukes were even in the picture.

There are only 2 countries that posesses nukes in the mideast....soon to be three, but not if GWB can help it....I hope

**TJ Cline** · 06-22-2006, 12:10 AM

I know that, they changed the sell a few times....Nevertheless it was an illegal war.

**bigss75** · 06-22-2006, 12:26 AM

If Joseph Wilson's name is brought up in this and his super secret CIA mission, I might puke. Your wife gets pissed at you and says "leave me alone, I dont care where you go, hell go to Niger" and this nut takes it seriously.

**maniclion** · 06-22-2006, 02:08 AM

Nice to see Syria sharing with the Iraqi insurgency.

**BigDyl** · 06-22-2006, 05:47 AM

True Story, looks like they finally planted them.

Mustard Gas, and Sarin is hardly a mushroom cloud. We gave that shit to them in the first place.

**JordanMang** · 06-22-2006, 08:23 AM

Originally Posted by min0 lee

Cool, now on to North Korea.
It's time to fight someone more competative.

To true, Iraq was a push over - 2500 dead? Hell, that's small fries. I want to see somebody get nuked already.

**BigDyl** · 06-22-2006, 09:45 AM

Originally Posted by JordanMang

To true, Iraq was a push over - 2500 dead? Hell, that's small fries. I want to see somebody get nuked already.

2,500 soldiers + 100k dead civilians is hardly a laughing matter, as it will come back to haunt in the form of alot more terrorism.

No more fries for you, I don't care if they are "small."

Wanting more innocents to get nuked is worse than the enemy.

**bigss75** · 06-22-2006, 10:07 AM

100k dead civilians where'd you pull that number from

**DOMS** · 06-22-2006, 10:10 AM

Either his ass or a propaganda, anti-war, website.

Either way, it smells the same.

**Decker** · 06-22-2006, 10:37 AM

Sorry to burst the bubble but look at the story again with a critical eye.

Lawmakers Cite Weapons Found in Iraq
Thursday, June 22, 2006; Page A10

Rep. Peter Hoekstra (R-Mich.), chairman of the House intelligence committee, and Sen. Rick Santorum (R-Pa.) told reporters yesterday that weapons of mass destruction had in fact been found in Iraq, despite acknowledgments by the White House and the insistence of the intelligence community that no such weapons had been discovered.

"We have found weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, chemical weapons," Santorum said.

The lawmakers pointed to an unclassified summary from a report by the National Ground Intelligence Center regarding 500 chemical munitions shells that had been buried near the Iranian border, and then long forgotten, by Iraqi troops during their eight-year war with Iran, which ended in 1988.

The U.S. military announced in 2004 in Iraq that several crates of the old shells had been uncovered and that they contained a blister agent that was no longer active. Neither the military nor the White House nor the CIA considered the shells to be evidence of what was alleged by the Bush administration to be a current Iraqi program to make chemical, biological and nuclear weapons.
Last night, intelligence officials reaffirmed that the shells were old and were not the suspected weapons of mass destruction sought in Iraq after the 2003 invasion.

-- Dafna Linzer

Just more lies from the Pro-war crowd. Surprise Surprise.

**JordanMang** · 06-22-2006, 10:46 AM

Originally Posted by Decker

Sorry to burst the bubble but look at the story again with a critical eye.

Lawmakers Cite Weapons Found in Iraq
Thursday, June 22, 2006; Page A10

Rep. Peter Hoekstra (R-Mich.), chairman of the House intelligence committee, and Sen. Rick Santorum (R-Pa.) told reporters yesterday that weapons of mass destruction had in fact been found in Iraq, despite acknowledgments by the White House and the insistence of the intelligence community that no such weapons had been discovered.

"We have found weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, chemical weapons," Santorum said.

The lawmakers pointed to an unclassified summary from a report by the National Ground Intelligence Center regarding 500 chemical munitions shells that had been buried near the Iranian border, and then long forgotten, by Iraqi troops during their eight-year war with Iran, which ended in 1988.

The U.S. military announced in 2004 in Iraq that several crates of the old shells had been uncovered and that they contained a blister agent that was no longer active. Neither the military nor the White House nor the CIA considered the shells to be evidence of what was alleged by the Bush administration to be a current Iraqi program to make chemical, biological and nuclear weapons.
Last night, intelligence officials reaffirmed that the shells were old and were not the suspected weapons of mass destruction sought in Iraq after the 2003 invasion.

-- Dafna Linzer

Just more lies from the Pro-war crowd. Surprise Surprise.

I'm confused...if they came out and said "the weapons were old, and not evidence" - how is it "more lies" from the pro-war crowd. It seems to me like you make every effort to see the glass half empty. You don't have an open mind about anything. You can't see anything from a different perspective.

**Decker** · 06-22-2006, 10:52 AM

Originally Posted by JordanMang

I'm confused...if they came out and said "the weapons were old, and not evidence" - how is it "more lies" from the pro-war crowd. It seems to me like you make every effort to see the glass half empty. You don't have an open mind about anything. You can't see anything from a different perspective.

Check out the screaming headlines from Rick Santorum this morning re WMDs being discovered in Iraq.

How did over 70% of the US population conflate Hussein/Iraq with the 9/11 attacks?

This is how. Propaganda. WMDs found in Iraq!!!!!

from 20 years ago.

**JordanMang** · 06-22-2006, 11:07 AM

Originally Posted by Decker

Check out the screaming headlines from Rick Santorum this morning re WMDs being discovered in Iraq.

How did over 70% of the US population conflate Hussein/Iraq with the 9/11 attacks?

This is how. Propaganda. WMDs found in Iraq!!!!!

from 20 years ago.

What point are you trying to make? That the media influences the people towards one prejudice or the other? Obivously, that's how most people form their ideas - through the information they see on T.V. It's still a far cry from a pro-war lie. While the people who do this may be naive; you can't condemn their choice to watch this. The people have a set idea before they even watch the media, and the media only pushes them towards the side they already believed. For you, it's all a pack of lies! For others it re-affirms their beliefs while offering a new light on new subjects. The fact is that none of us have all the facts ( and by us I mean the citizens of the U.S. ). We have to base our opinions on what we're offered. Some people do more research then others, and some don't.

**BigDyl** · 06-22-2006, 11:10 AM

Originally Posted by bigss75

100k dead civilians where'd you pull that number from

haha, I knew someone would try to argue about numbers. What's the difference between 50k and 100k son?

**DOMS** · 06-22-2006, 11:11 AM

Originally Posted by BigDyl

haha, I knew someone would try to argue about numbers. What's the difference between 50k and 100k son?

I'm no math-o-matician, but I'd say 50,000.

**BigDyl** · 06-22-2006, 11:15 AM

Originally Posted by Decker

Check out the screaming headlines from Rick Santorum this morning re WMDs being discovered in Iraq.

How did over 70% of the US population conflate Hussein/Iraq with the 9/11 attacks?

This is how. Propaganda. WMDs found in Iraq!!!!!

from 20 years ago.

.
DECKEROWNED!!!!!!!!!

**Decker** · 06-22-2006, 11:52 AM

Originally Posted by JordanMang

What point are you trying to make? That the media influences the people towards one prejudice or the other? Obivously, that's how most people form their ideas - through the information they see on T.V. It's still a far cry from a pro-war lie. While the people who do this may be naive; you can't condemn their choice to watch this. The people have a set idea before they even watch the media, and the media only pushes them towards the side they already believed. For you, it's all a pack of lies! For others it re-affirms their beliefs while offering a new light on new subjects. The fact is that none of us have all the facts ( and by us I mean the citizens of the U.S. ). We have to base our opinions on what we're offered. Some people do more research then others, and some don't.

The point I'm making is that pro-war leaders/politicians are actively deceivng the american public to reach their goals. Before Bush and Co. started to systematically tie Hussein to 9/11, nobody believed Iraq was associated w/ the 9/11 attacks. After Bush and Co started their deliberate lies, either 65 or 70% of the country thought Hussein attacked us on 9/11.

Our democratic republic is dependent on its citizens' ability to weigh facts and circumstances in deliberation of how this country should be run. GWB and Co. obscure facts instead of illuminating them so that they can deceive the citizens into endorsing their particular view.

They've done it on Iraq, Medicare, Social Security, Clear Skies environmental laws, tax legislation and even education.

Our country cannot operate as it was intended to operate if the Executive Branch (and its sycophants) is composed of a bunch shady, lying crooks. Which is what it is.

**largepkg** · 06-22-2006, 12:02 PM

Originally Posted by BigDyl

haha, I knew someone would try to argue about numbers. What's the difference between 50k and 100k son?

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