Thread: What should happen in the Middle East?

True Story, I'd like to see the body count go higher.

Originally Posted by Dale Mabry

I say we pull up stake in Iraq and go to Iran kinda like what we did when we left Afghanistan for Iraq, only this time with a genuine reason and plan.

I don't think we should pull out of Iraq. We could reduce the force and then drop a few little turds on Iran.

That's my technique, I pull out and then shoot on the asshole too! Where'd you learn this technique? Who was your sifu?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...15038251099994

Originally Posted by maniclion

That's my technique, I pull out and then shoot on the asshole too! Where'd you learn this technique? Who was your sifu?

Nothing.

We're dicks! We're reckless, arrogant, stupid dicks. And the United Nations are pussies. And Iran is an asshole.

Pussies don't like dicks, because pussies get fucked by dicks. But dicks also fuck assholes: assholes that just want to shit on everything. Pussies may think they can deal with assholes their way. But the only thing that can fuck an asshole is a dick, with some balls.

The problem with dicks is: they fuck too much or fuck when it isn't appropriate - and it takes a pussy to show them that. But sometimes, pussies can be so full of shit that they become assholes themselves... because pussies are an inch and half away from ass holes.

I don't know much about this crazy, crazy world, but I do know this: If you don't let us fuck this asshole, we're going to have our dicks and pussies all covered in shit!

~Gary Johnston - Team America (modified)

Originally Posted by Dale Mabry

I say we pull up stake in Iraq and go to Iran kinda like what we did when we left Afghanistan for Iraq, only this time with a genuine reason and plan.

You should stop caring about it. That is why this whole problem started. Let them solve their problems, if they ask for help then it might be different.

I say we stop playing world police and starting pre-emptive wars. Beyond it being completely against all that is good and moral, there are totally unpredictable consequences that result from these unwarranted international invasions.

We are committing the very act that we don't want others to commit. Doesn't anyone see the irony?

Originally Posted by Tough Old Man

I don't think we should pull out of Iraq. We could reduce the force and then drop a few little turds on Iran.

Whats with the we? You live in Mexico!

Originally Posted by CowPimp

I say we stop playing world police....

So, you didn't like my quote from Team America

Originally Posted by CowPimp

I say we stop playing world police and starting pre-emptive wars. Beyond it being completely against all that is good and moral, there are totally unpredictable consequences that result from these unwarranted international invasions.

We are committing the very act that we don't want others to commit. Doesn't anyone see the irony?

I say get the troops out of there and let those people kill themselves. Let mother nature sort them out.

not my home. not my problem.

this was sent to me in an email today:

When WWIII Started****1979

This is not very long, but very informative. You have to read the catalogue of events in this brief piece. Then, ask yourself how anyone can take the position that all we have to do is bring our troops home from Iraq, sit back, reset the snooze alarm, go back to sleep, and no one will ever bother us again. In case you missed it, World War III began in November 1979... that alarm has been ringing for years.

US Navy Captain Ouimette is the Executive Officer at Naval Air Station, Pensacola , Florida . Here is a copy of the speech he gave last month. It is an accurate account of why we are in so much trouble today and why this action is so necessary.


AMERICA NEEDS TO WAKE UP!
That's what we think we heard on the 11th of September 2001 (When more than 3,000 Americans were killed -AD) and maybe it was, but I think it should have been "Get Out of Bed!" In fact, I think the alarm clock has been buzzing since 1979 and we have continued to hit the snooze button and roll over for a few more minutes of peaceful sleep since then.

It was a cool fall day in November 1979 in a country going through a religious and political upheaval when a group of Iranian students attacked and seized the American Embassy in Tehran . This seizure was an outright attack on American soil; it was an attack that held the world's most powerful country hostage and paralyzed a Presidency. The attack on this sovereign U. S. embassy set the stage for events to follow for the next 25 years.

America was still reeling from the aftermath of the Vietnam experience and had a serious threat from the Soviet Union when then, President Carter, had to do something. He chose to conduct a clandestine raid in the desert. The ill-fated mission ended in ruin, but stood as a symbol of America 's inability to deal with terrorism.

America 's military had been decimated and down sized/right sized since the end of the Vietnam War. A poorly trained, poorly equipped and poorly organized military was called on to execute a complex mission that was doomed from the start.

Shortly after the Tehran experience, Americans began to be kidnapped and killed throughout the Middle East . America could do little to protect her citizens living and working abroad. The attacks against US soil continued!

In April of 1983 a large vehicle packed with high explosives was driven into the US Embassy compound in Beirut When it explodes, it kills 63 people. The alarm went off again and America hit the Snooze Button once more.

Then just six short months later in 1983 a large truck heavily laden down with over 2500 pounds of TNT smashed through the main gate of the US Marine Corps headquarters in Beirut and 241 US servicemen are killed. America mourns her dead and hit the Snooze Button once more.



Two months later in December 1983, another truck loaded with explosives is driven into the US Embassy in Kuwait , and America continues her slumber.

The following year, in September 1984, another van was driven into the gate of the US Embassy in Beirut and America slept.

Soon the terrorism spreads to Europe . In April 1985 a bomb explodes in a restaurant frequented by US soldiers in Madrid .

Then in August 1985 a Volkswagen loaded with explosives is driven into the main gate of the US Air Force Base at Rhein-Main, 22 are killed and the snooze alarm is buzzing louder and louder as US interests are continually attacked.

Fifty-nine days later in 1985 a cruise ship, the Achille Lauro is hijacked and we watched as an American in a wheelchair is singled out of the passenger list and executed.

The terrorists then shift their tactics to bombing civilian airliners when they bomb TWA Flight 840 in April of 1986 that killed 4 and the most tragic bombing, Pan Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland in1988, killing 259.


Clinton treated these terrorist acts as crimes; in fact we are still trying to bring these people to trial. These are acts of war.


The wake up alarm is getting louder and louder.

The terrorists decide to bring the fight to America . In January 1993, two CIA agents are shot and killed as they enter CIA headquarters in Langley , Virginia.

The following month, February 1993, a group of terrorists are arrested after a rented van packed with explosives is driven into the underground parking garage of the World Trade Center in New York City. Six people are killed and over 1000 are injured. Still this is a crime and not an act of war? The Snooze alarm is depressed again.

Then in November 1995 a car bomb explodes at a US military complex in Riyadh , Saudi Arabia killing seven service men and women.

A few months later in June of 1996, another truck bomb explodes only 35 yards from the US military compound in Dhahran , Saudi Arabia . It destroys the Khobar Towers, a US Air Force barracks, killing 19 and injuring over 500. The terrorists are getting braver and smarter as they see that America does not respond decisively.

They move to coordinate their attacks in a simultaneous attack on two US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania. These attacks were planned with precision. They kill 224. America responds with cruise missile attacks and goes back to sleep.

The USS Cole was docked in the port of Aden, Yemen for refueling on 12 October 2000, when a small craft pulled along side the ship and exploded killing 17 US Navy Sailors. Attacking a US War Ship is an act of war, but we sent the FBI to investigate the crime and went back to sleep.

And of course you know the events of 11 September 2001 . Most Americans think this was the first attack against US soil or in America . How wrong they are. America has been under a constant attack since 1979 and we chose to hit the snooze alarm and roll over and go back to sleep!!!

In the news lately we have seen lots of finger pointing from every high official in government over what they knew and what they didn't know. But if you've read the papers and paid a little attention I think you can see exactly what they knew. You don't have to be in the FBI or CIA or on the National Security Council to see the pattern that has been developing since 1979.

I think we have been in a war for the past 25 years and it will continue until we as a people decide enough is enough! America needs to "Get out of Bed" and act decisively now. America has been changed forever. We have to be ready to pay the price and make the sacrifice to ensure our way of life continues. We cannot afford to keep hitting the snooze button again and again and roll over and go back to sleep.

After the attack on Pearl Harbor , Admiral Yamamoto said "... it seems all we have done is awakened a sleeping giant." This is the message we need to disseminate to terrorists around the world.

This is not a political thing to be hashed over in an election year this is an AMERICAN thing. This is about our Freedom and the Freedom of our children in years to come.

P-funk, that e-mail you got is pure shit. Terrorism is a tactic. It is decentralized and cannot be fought by traditional military. Terrorism is best combatted through police work on an international level. It worked for the British as of late. Compare that with the failed invasion of Iraq which wrought a much much less safer world. Bush is doing everything he can to play into the terrorists' hands--damage international relations, waste US resources in an unrelated illegal invasion of Iraq, shitcan the constitutional grounds upon which our country was founded.

The prophylactic measures put in place by the Bush administration to prevent domestic attacks has been window dressing for the rubes--just as many weapons pass through airports as before 9/11//cargo still goes into US harbors 95% unchecked//nothings been done about securing stray WMDs. The only reason Al Qaeda has not struck the US again is b/c it chose not to attack. Osama wanted the infidels out of Saudi Arabia. That was the main reason he stated for attacking on 9/11. GWB pulled the US troops out of Saudi Arabia in preparation for the IRaq invasion, thus tacitly capitulating to Osama. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2984547.stm

In other words, Osama won. "Mission Accomplished" my ass.

Originally Posted by Decker

P-funk, that e-mail you got is pure shit. Terrorism is a tactic. It is decentralized and cannot be fought by traditional military. Terrorism is best combatted through police work on an international level. It worked for the British as of late. Compare that with the failed invasion of Iraq which wrought a much much less safer world. Bush is doing everything he can to play into the terrorists' hands--damage international relations, waste US resources in an unrelated illegal invasion of Iraq, shitcan the constitutional grounds upon which our country was founded.

The prophylactic measures put in place by the Bush administration to prevent domestic attacks has been window dressing for the rubes--just as many weapons pass through airports as before 9/11//cargo still goes into US harbors 95% unchecked//nothings been done about securing stray WMDs. The only reason Al Qaeda has not struck the US again is b/c it chose not to attack. Osama wanted the infidels out of Saudi Arabia. That was the main reason he stated for attacking on 9/11. GWB pulled the US troops out of Saudi Arabia in preparation for the IRaq invasion, thus tacitly capitulating to Osama. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2984547.stm

In other words, Osama won. "Mission Accomplished" my ass.

What do you think about 911 conspiracy theories? Like Tower 7, and everything else?

Originally Posted by BigDyl

What do you think about 911 conspiracy theories? Like Tower 7, and everything else?

I like conspiracy theories. They are alot of fun. The 9/11 conspiracies are interesting b/c there are so many unanswered questions: How could 4 planes be hijacked simultaneously; crash into targets located in the most protected airspace in the world and not have one jet scrambled? Christ, one of the planes struck the Pentagon 5 minutes after Bush addressed the nation. Annually over 1/2 the US budget is used to defend this country and we couldn't even manage a fucking smoke signal on the day of the biggest domestic attack in history.

And shit like bush/cheney asking Congress to back off investigating the matter fuels speculation. Just as Bush's request that our gov. back-off investigating the Saudis and their ties to terrorism. Stuff like that is gold for the conspiracty buffs.

As for my opinion on everything else: Life is terrible yet awesomely rewarding when measures of excellence are met and the craving for disengaged comfort is left to the little people.

Originally Posted by CowPimp

I say we stop playing world police and starting pre-emptive wars. Beyond it being completely against all that is good and moral, there are totally unpredictable consequences that result from these unwarranted international invasions.

We are committing the very act that we don't want others to commit. Doesn't anyone see the irony?

I see the irony, but if we pre-emptively strike Iran, it affects Iran. If we sit around and let an unstable tribe (They are hardly a nation) build nuclear weapons and they decide to drop one anywhere because someone drew an unflattering cartoon of Muhammed, the planet is fucked.

Originally Posted by CowPimp

I say we stop playing world police and starting pre-emptive wars. Beyond it being completely against all that is good and moral, there are totally unpredictable consequences that result from these unwarranted international invasions.

We are committing the very act that we don't want others to commit. Doesn't anyone see the irony?

"We are the police and now we're going to start a riot. Subtlety or not, we're going to start a riot"

Originally Posted by Dale Mabry

I see the irony, but if we pre-emptively strike Iran, it affects Iran. If we sit around and let an unstable tribe (They are hardly a nation) build nuclear weapons and they decide to drop one anywhere because someone drew an unflattering cartoon of Muhammed, the planet is fucked.

You don't think that eventually all these pre-emptive strikes might lead to people getting pissed off at us and potentially using nuclear weapons? I think that possibility is just as great.

Also, you are insinuating that Iran would take military action for some mild religious disgrace like that. I think that is very unlikely. Even if it was, it doesn't give us a right to attack someone who is developing a weapon to defend themselves. That is fucking ridiculous. We can't just go attacking people because they might attack others! We can come up with contrived bullshit to attack any nation in the world of pre-emptive war is deemed acceptable.

Israel is just as likely to use military force for religious reasons as an Islamic nation in my opinion, but we fund them and give them weapons.

Also remember, to this date we are the only country who has used nuclear weapons.

Originally Posted by Dale Mabry

I say we pull up stake in Iraq and go to Iran kinda like what we did when we left Afghanistan for Iraq, only this time with a genuine reason and plan.

The U.S. can't beat Iran.

Originally Posted by CowPimp

You don't think that eventually all these pre-emptive strikes might lead to people getting pissed off at us and potentially using nuclear weapons? I think that possibility is just as great.

Also, you are insinuating that Iran would take military action for some mild religious disgrace like that. I think that is very unlikely. Even if it was, it doesn't give us a right to attack someone who is developing a weapon to defend themselves. That is fucking ridiculous. We can't just go attacking people because they might attack others! We can come up with contrived bullshit to attack any nation in the world of pre-emptive war is deemed acceptable.

Israel is just as likely to use military force for religious reasons as an Islamic nation in my opinion, but we fund them and give them weapons.

Also remember, to this date we are the only country who has used nuclear weapons.

1)Israel doesn't support terrorism, Iran does. Even if Iran didn't use the nuke, I am sure they will share the knowledge or actual nukes with others who would use them. The point isn't who would use military force, I agree Israle is more likely to, but they also have to deal with suicide bombing terrorists blowing themselves up. Diplomacy is like game theory, it only works with a rational opponent, which is why diplomacy hasn't worked with Iran

2)I don't believe anyone has the right to have nukes to defend themselves, it is unnecessary. It would be like buying a bazooka for your home to ward off robbers. I think the first step is destroying ours, but you know that wouldn't stop other countries from developing them. Perhaps reducing our stock is the first step.

3)The point of the pre-emptive strike is to strike before the nukes are made, if they don't have nukes they can't use them. I get the notion that if we pre-emptively strike A, then B, who already has nukes, is likely to use them if we turn to them. I think that scenario is more far-fetched than Iran dropping one in a war against Israel. Iran would blow up it's ear just to spite it's face, IMO.

Originally Posted by Vesuvius

The U.S. can't beat Iran.

That is funny.

Originally Posted by Vesuvius

The U.S. can't beat Iran.

Originally Posted by Dale Mabry

1...Diplomacy is like game theory, it only works with a rational opponent, which is why diplomacy hasn't worked with Iran...

Iran's leaders are very rational. The redmeat rhetoric they use is practically indistinguishable from the rhetoric of US politicians. Have you read the letter Iran's president wrote to Bush. It is rather eloquent in its sentiments. It is rare that political leaders are not rational to the degree that self-preservation is discounted. Even Hussein gave in to US demands when his back was to the wall. I think it's a fundamental error to debase any opponent as 'not rational' b/c that closes too many doors to alternative solutions. Even Hitler was rational.

Israel does not have to use terrorism or support it to achieve its ends b/c it has superior firepower (thank you USA) and nuclear weapons (likely). The territorial antecedents of the Mid-East conflict--Israel claiming land and everybody else losing land--puts Israel in the driver's seat b/c of that superior firepower and leaving the arab states scrambling to retain what land they have through whatever means necessary. Just look at the criminal devestation in Lebanon.

Pre-emptive strikes to deter the development of nuclear weapons is shortsighted and will ultimately fail as time passes. Technological advances will result in more and more states requiring less and less materials to create a functional bomb. The best way to combat this is through international consensus and diplomacy. Look at India and Pakistan...hell, look at the US and Russia. It's been a fucking miracle that there has been no nuclear attack since 1945 but then that speaks to diplomacy doesn't it?

Originally Posted by Decker

Iran's leaders are very rational. The redmeat rhetoric they use is practically indistinguishable from the rhetoric of US politicians. Have you read the letter Iran's president wrote to Bush. It is rather eloquent in its sentiments. It is rare that political leaders are not rational to the degree that self-preservation is discounted. Even Hussein gave in to US demands when his back was to the wall. I think it's a fundamental error to debase any opponent as 'not rational' b/c that closes too many doors to alternative solutions. Even Hitler was rational.

Israel does not have to use terrorism or support it to achieve its ends b/c it has superior firepower (thank you USA) and nuclear weapons (likely). The territorial antecedents of the Mid-East conflict--Israel claiming land and everybody else losing land--puts Israel in the driver's seat b/c of that superior firepower and leaving the arab states scrambling to retain what land they have through whatever means necessary. Just look at the criminal devestation in Lebanon.

Pre-emptive strikes to deter the development of nuclear weapons is shortsighted and will ultimately fail as time passes. Technological advances will result in more and more states requiring less and less materials to create a functional bomb. The best way to combat this is through international consensus and diplomacy. Look at India and Pakistan...hell, look at the US and Russia. It's been a fucking miracle that there has been no nuclear attack since 1945 but then that speaks to diplomacy doesn't it?

The letter was written well, but I don't see how you can say anyone who supports terrorism is rational. Of course he is rational to some extent, but I think you give his elqouence too much weight.

I believe Hezbollah started firing missiles into Israel, not the other way around. You are stating that diplomatic means should be used, but you don't require the same from the smaller military?

I agree, eventually it will be very easy to develop nukes in the future and pre-emptive strikes useless. I say buy us some time now while we have the chance.

Originally Posted by Dale Mabry

The letter was written well, but I don't see how you can say anyone who supports terrorism is rational. Of course he is rational to some extent, but I think you give his elqouence too much weight.

I believe Hezbollah started firing missiles into Israel, not the other way around. You are stating that diplomatic means should be used, but you don't require the same from the smaller military?

I agree, eventually it will be very easy to develop nukes in the future and pre-emptive strikes useless. I say buy us some time now while we have the chance.

Terrorism is the last resort of the hopeless. Religious dogma aside, nobody straps a bomb to their body unless they are backed into a corner. Iran is working with russia to develop nuclear power. The russians seem to find them rational. Will we attack russia too b/c they enable Iran's domestic nuclear power program?

Yes, attacks will happen and the arabs will be the instigators b/c they are arguably the oppressed weak sister of the middle east lashing out at the stronger oppressor. The hope is that cooler heads will ultimately prevail and diplomatic solutions will arise. Like it or not, Hamas was democratically put into power (so much for democracy changing the middle eastern character). That group was identified w/ terrorism yet now it governs. Look, if Clinton could bring Arafat and Sharon to the bargaining table, anything's possible.

As for preemption's temporary utility, it has none. The moment we start bombing/attacking other countries for perceived WMD development is the moment we become embroiled in more wars that we cannot afford or manage. Diplomacy is still the best solution.

Diplomacy is the best option, but it is not always a viable one.

I don't care one way or another that Hamas was elected in to power, actually, I think it is a good thing that it was. At least with them, we just stop aiding that country financially. It saves us money and if they want to deal with us, they must denounce terrorism. Money is a great bargaining chip, I hope more terrorist regimes come to power, it could end up saving us a lot of money in the long run.

I'll tell you what, once oil is no longer needed, neither will be any contact with that area of the world...Good times.