Can a good Muslim be a good American?

ReproMan · 09-11-2006, 03:14 PM

Can a good Muslim be a good American?

I (meaning a friend of mine) sent that question to a friend who worked in Saudi Arabia for 20 years.

The following is his reply:

Theologically - no. Because his allegiance is to Allah, the moon god of Arabia.

Religiously - no. Because no other religion is accepted by his Allah except Islam (Quran, 2:256)

Scripturally - no. Because his allegiance is to the five pillars of Islam and the Quran (Koran).

Geographically - no. Because his allegiance is to Mecca, to which he turns in prayer five times a day.

Socially - no. Because his allegiance to Islam forbids him to make friends with Christians or Jews.

Politically - no. Because he must submit to the mullah (spiritual leaders), who teach annihilation of Israel and Destruction of America, the great Satan.

Domestically - no. Because he is instructed to marry four women and beat and scourge his wife when she disobeys him (Quran 4:34).

Intellectually - no. Because he cannot accept the American Constitution since it is based on Biblical principles and he believes the Bible to be corrupt.

Philosophically - no. Because Islam, Muhammad, and the Quran do not allow freedom of religion and expression. Democracy and Islam cannot co-exist..

Every Muslim government is either dictatorial or autocratic.

Spiritually - no. Because when we declare "one nation under God," the Christian's God is loving and kind, while Allah is NEVER referred to as heavenly father, nor is he ever called love in The Quran's 99 excellent names.

Therefore after much study and deliberation.... perhaps we should be very suspicious of ALL MUSLIMS in this country. They obviously cannot be both "good" Muslims and good Americans. Call it what you wish.... it's still the truth.

Dub guy · 09-11-2006, 03:44 PM

That's a heap of garbage...it's totally slanted...let's find an internet response from a smart muslim american to counter it and put this to bed..hmmm

Quote:
Best Answer - Chosen by Asker

whoa whoa whoa there man... a muslim *can* be a good american, as are most muslims that i know and interact with. i'll take your points one at a time but before that, let me give you a general overview...

the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon Him) began preaching Islam in Makkah -- there, he and his followers lived in Makkah, where most of the people where idol worshippers. later, he was pushed out of Makkah and went to Madinah, where he and his followers lived, in peace, amidst huge amounts of Jewish tribes. moreover, when he finally was able to go back to Makkah, it was a bloodless conquest... despite the fact that he and his followers were tortured and thrown out of Makkah by the people therein, and despite the fact that now, years later, the Prophet had power and people and could take revenge and killed the people who tortured them in Makkah, the opening of Makkah was a bloodless conquest. any islamic history book will document this fact, and that alone proves that a muslim can coexist with non muslims and be a good citizen of those respective countries.

now... on to your points.

1. theologically, our alleigence is to Allah -- but that doesn't stop me from being a good citizen. i obey Allah, and worship Him and adhere to His words in the same exact way that a devout Christian or Jew would adhere to their books and beliefs. this doesn't make the Christian or Jew unable to be a good American, and likewise with the Muslim -- our allegience is to Allah, which means we obey His rules -- we pray, we fast, we help the needy and poor, we don't commit adultry, we don't drink alcohol, we don't steal, and we don't kill innocent people and so on -- none of these things go against being a good American.

2. religiously - even if Islam is the only accepted religion in the eyes of Allah, that doesn't mean that we as Muslims have the right to judge others. ask a devout Christian about Christianity -- he'll tell you that Jesus Christ's way is the only way and everyone else is wrong. likewise, Muslims will tell you that Islam is the only way and the other religions are wrong -- that doesn't mean that we're going to judge non Muslims as going to Hell, because no one knows the future and no one knows, even a great enemy to Islam might become a Muslim and we have to embrace him as our brother the next day. judging is left to God, so its not for us to judge. thus, this doesn't affect us being good Muslims.

3. scriptually - again, same as theologically - i can follow the 5 pillers of islam (belief in God, praying my 5 prayers, fasting ramadan, paying my charity (zakah), doing Hajj once in a lifetime), along with following the rules in the Quran (not stealing, not killing innocent people, doing good things, etc) without affecting me being a good American. as a matter of fact, a Muslim who adheres to God's rules IS a good American because he treats others with kindness even when treated poorly by others.

4. socially - the Prophet (peace be upon him) used to interact normally with the non Muslims of Makkah and Madinah -- there's nothing that prevents a Muslim from interacting and being nice to people around them - in fact, if a Muslim doesn't do that, how is he going to spread his religion? the spreading of religion comes by others seeing the way we act in accordance to our religion, thus they see the beauty of it and accept it. so this is out.

5. politically - no. our allegience is to God. America is not Satan, neither is Israel -- there are people in America and Israel (especially in the government) who want the destruction and demise of Islam and Muslims, but that doesn't mean that a. the general populace of these countries also want that, and b. that these people should be destroyed. quite the contrary. as i mentioned before, our job as Muslims is to follow the teachings of the true Islam, after which people will see the beauty of our religion. when people see the beauty of Islam, many people will accept it. the problem today is that there are some extremists who do things in the name of Islam, and people have come to associate their actions with the actions of every Muslim. what you and they don't realize, however, is that over 20% of the world's population is Muslim, and those terrorists do not even make up 1% of the number of Muslims -- its ridiculous to generalize about 1.3+ billion people based on what 200 terrorist do or say.

6. domestically - firstly, do you know why it was allowed for men to marry 4 women? secondly, how many people do you know have married four women? unfortunately, you hear "muslims can have 4 wives" - and you change it to "he is instructed to marry 4 women" -- that's not the case (wait, i am coming to the beating part, patience) -- a man *can* marry 4 women under very strict situations and circumstances which basically are very hard to fulfill these days. due to this, most men do not marry more than one woman. secondly, its definitely not an instruction or an order in any way. thirdly, when you look into the reason behind it, maybe you'll understand why its allowed.

regarding the beating part - the problem is, you are taking an english translation and you are taking it out of context without understanding why or what its saying. i advise you to look at the verse's translation in an arabic tafseer book where it will be explained. suffice it to say that the Prophet, who is the example for all mankind, never hit his wives, and whenever he did, he hit them with a straw. yes, a straw. its not meant as beating.

furthermore, i want to point out that islam is the first religion to give rights to women. the Prophet implemented this in his time - he opened the first islamic hospital and put a woman in charge of it to cure both men and women - some of the greatest teachers of Islam were women. the Prophet even took advice in crucial matters from his wives. i advise you to study rather than take things that you hear without looking them through.

7. intellectually - the Bible is the book of God. we believe it has been altered, but nothing in the constitution goes against my day to day religious practices or beliefs. notice it says "in God we trust" - "one nation under God" - these statements don't go against Islam in any way. if it had said "in Jesus we trust" or "one nation under Jesus," then maybe you'd be right, but it doesn't.

8. philosophically - no, you are absolutely wrong. islam is the first democracy. as a matter of fact, to the extent of the fact that if one person complained about a person the Prophet or one of the caliph's put in charge, even if that person was a liar, they had the person replaced with someone that everyone consented and agreed with. islam brought democracy, long before the idea ever was brought by western civilization. the prophet took the opinion and expression of his companions, even women as i said. i highly suggest you look into the islamic history books and see what islam really is about.

9. funny, i just mentioned that "one nation under God" doesn't say anything wrong... mind you, the Christian's father IS our Allah. Christans and Muslims worship the same God, its just that Christians also believe that Jesus is part of that God and the Holy Spirit is part of that God. we believe that God is 1, not in a trinity. and what are you saying about Allah not referred to as loving and kind? as a matter of fact, the first verse of the Quran says "in the name of God, the Beneficient, the Merciful" -- the very FIRST verse. in every chapter, God talks about His mercy and kindness -- i don't see where you're getting htis from. have you read the 99 names before you make this judgement?

i take high offense to your statement. i am an American citizen and i've lived here all my life. my views are not liberal, they are the views of any mainstream Muslim. i've lived in this country, i've helped this country (by contributing my knowledge, ideas, time and effort to its schools, universities, corporate environments, and volunteer environments) - as have the majority of other Muslims.

there is absolutely no reason based on some diluted views you hear about a few people in the media that you judge the beliefs and humanity of 1.3+ billion people in this way. i highly suggest you do your research before making such claims.

ReproMan · 09-11-2006, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dub guy

That's a heap of garbage...it's totally slanted...let's find an internet response from a smart muslim american to counter it and put this to bed..hmmm

Quote:
Best Answer - Chosen by Asker

whoa whoa whoa there man... a muslim *can* be a good american, as are most muslims that i know and interact with. i'll take your points one at a time but before that, let me give you a general overview...

the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon Him) began preaching Islam in Makkah -- there, he and his followers lived in Makkah, where most of the people where idol worshippers. later, he was pushed out of Makkah and went to Madinah, where he and his followers lived, in peace, amidst huge amounts of Jewish tribes. moreover, when he finally was able to go back to Makkah, it was a bloodless conquest... despite the fact that he and his followers were tortured and thrown out of Makkah by the people therein, and despite the fact that now, years later, the Prophet had power and people and could take revenge and killed the people who tortured them in Makkah, the opening of Makkah was a bloodless conquest. any islamic history book will document this fact, and that alone proves that a muslim can coexist with non muslims and be a good citizen of those respective countries.

now... on to your points.

1. theologically, our alleigence is to Allah -- but that doesn't stop me from being a good citizen. i obey Allah, and worship Him and adhere to His words in the same exact way that a devout Christian or Jew would adhere to their books and beliefs. this doesn't make the Christian or Jew unable to be a good American, and likewise with the Muslim -- our allegience is to Allah, which means we obey His rules -- we pray, we fast, we help the needy and poor, we don't commit adultry, we don't drink alcohol, we don't steal, and we don't kill innocent people and so on -- none of these things go against being a good American.

2. religiously - even if Islam is the only accepted religion in the eyes of Allah, that doesn't mean that we as Muslims have the right to judge others. ask a devout Christian about Christianity -- he'll tell you that Jesus Christ's way is the only way and everyone else is wrong. likewise, Muslims will tell you that Islam is the only way and the other religions are wrong -- that doesn't mean that we're going to judge non Muslims as going to Hell, because no one knows the future and no one knows, even a great enemy to Islam might become a Muslim and we have to embrace him as our brother the next day. judging is left to God, so its not for us to judge. thus, this doesn't affect us being good Muslims.

3. scriptually - again, same as theologically - i can follow the 5 pillers of islam (belief in God, praying my 5 prayers, fasting ramadan, paying my charity (zakah), doing Hajj once in a lifetime), along with following the rules in the Quran (not stealing, not killing innocent people, doing good things, etc) without affecting me being a good American. as a matter of fact, a Muslim who adheres to God's rules IS a good American because he treats others with kindness even when treated poorly by others.

4. socially - the Prophet (peace be upon him) used to interact normally with the non Muslims of Makkah and Madinah -- there's nothing that prevents a Muslim from interacting and being nice to people around them - in fact, if a Muslim doesn't do that, how is he going to spread his religion? the spreading of religion comes by others seeing the way we act in accordance to our religion, thus they see the beauty of it and accept it. so this is out.

5. politically - no. our allegience is to God. America is not Satan, neither is Israel -- there are people in America and Israel (especially in the government) who want the destruction and demise of Islam and Muslims, but that doesn't mean that a. the general populace of these countries also want that, and b. that these people should be destroyed. quite the contrary. as i mentioned before, our job as Muslims is to follow the teachings of the true Islam, after which people will see the beauty of our religion. when people see the beauty of Islam, many people will accept it. the problem today is that there are some extremists who do things in the name of Islam, and people have come to associate their actions with the actions of every Muslim. what you and they don't realize, however, is that over 20% of the world's population is Muslim, and those terrorists do not even make up 1% of the number of Muslims -- its ridiculous to generalize about 1.3+ billion people based on what 200 terrorist do or say.

6. domestically - firstly, do you know why it was allowed for men to marry 4 women? secondly, how many people do you know have married four women? unfortunately, you hear "muslims can have 4 wives" - and you change it to "he is instructed to marry 4 women" -- that's not the case (wait, i am coming to the beating part, patience) -- a man *can* marry 4 women under very strict situations and circumstances which basically are very hard to fulfill these days. due to this, most men do not marry more than one woman. secondly, its definitely not an instruction or an order in any way. thirdly, when you look into the reason behind it, maybe you'll understand why its allowed.

regarding the beating part - the problem is, you are taking an english translation and you are taking it out of context without understanding why or what its saying. i advise you to look at the verse's translation in an arabic tafseer book where it will be explained. suffice it to say that the Prophet, who is the example for all mankind, never hit his wives, and whenever he did, he hit them with a straw. yes, a straw. its not meant as beating.

furthermore, i want to point out that islam is the first religion to give rights to women. the Prophet implemented this in his time - he opened the first islamic hospital and put a woman in charge of it to cure both men and women - some of the greatest teachers of Islam were women. the Prophet even took advice in crucial matters from his wives. i advise you to study rather than take things that you hear without looking them through.

7. intellectually - the Bible is the book of God. we believe it has been altered, but nothing in the constitution goes against my day to day religious practices or beliefs. notice it says "in God we trust" - "one nation under God" - these statements don't go against Islam in any way. if it had said "in Jesus we trust" or "one nation under Jesus," then maybe you'd be right, but it doesn't.

8. philosophically - no, you are absolutely wrong. islam is the first democracy. as a matter of fact, to the extent of the fact that if one person complained about a person the Prophet or one of the caliph's put in charge, even if that person was a liar, they had the person replaced with someone that everyone consented and agreed with. islam brought democracy, long before the idea ever was brought by western civilization. the prophet took the opinion and expression of his companions, even women as i said. i highly suggest you look into the islamic history books and see what islam really is about.

9. funny, i just mentioned that "one nation under God" doesn't say anything wrong... mind you, the Christian's father IS our Allah. Christans and Muslims worship the same God, its just that Christians also believe that Jesus is part of that God and the Holy Spirit is part of that God. we believe that God is 1, not in a trinity. and what are you saying about Allah not referred to as loving and kind? as a matter of fact, the first verse of the Quran says "in the name of God, the Beneficient, the Merciful" -- the very FIRST verse. in every chapter, God talks about His mercy and kindness -- i don't see where you're getting htis from. have you read the 99 names before you make this judgement?

i take high offense to your statement. i am an American citizen and i've lived here all my life. my views are not liberal, they are the views of any mainstream Muslim. i've lived in this country, i've helped this country (by contributing my knowledge, ideas, time and effort to its schools, universities, corporate environments, and volunteer environments) - as have the majority of other Muslims.

there is absolutely no reason based on some diluted views you hear about a few people in the media that you judge the beliefs and humanity of 1.3+ billion people in this way. i highly suggest you do your research before making such claims.

I was gonna read your response, but you lost me here:
1. Theollogically: "We don't kill innocent people"

DOMS · 09-11-2006, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FatCatMC

I was gonna read your response, but you lost me here:
1. Theollogically: "We don't kill innocent people"

If only that were funny...

ReproMan · 09-11-2006, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DOMS

If only that were funny...

True. Not laughing at the situation.

DOMS · 09-11-2006, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FatCatMC

True. Not laughing at the situation.

Oh, I know, you were laughing at his post. I have very little respect for the Muslim religion. Keep in mind, I'd say much worse, but I don't want an infraction.

TJ Cline · 09-11-2006, 05:07 PM

Simple, we have 300 million people. Time to cut immigration in this country by 99%......and not let one fucking Arab or Mexican in ever again no matter what.

DOMS · 09-11-2006, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForemanRules

Simple, we have 300 million people. Time to cut immigration in this country by 99%......and not let one fucking Arab or Mexican in ever again no matter what.

You have my vote!

Witmaster · 09-11-2006, 05:28 PM

Technically.... I'd say "No"

Since Islam (in it's purest interpretation) calls all of its' followers to either Convert, Enslave, or Destroy all non-believers I'd have to say that approach is somewhat contrary to the Democratic liberties we enjoy.

Christianity tried this sort of approach during the Crusades around the 1000's and then later during the Spanish Inquisition in the 1400's.

Nowdays, we flood your culture with capitalism and porn and THEN send in missionaries to convert you from evil

It's a much more subtle yet acceptable approach.

DOMS · 09-11-2006, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Witmaster

Technically.... I'd say "No"

Since Islam (in it's purest interpretation) calls all of its' followers to either Convert, Enslave, or Destroy all non-believers I'd have to say that approach is somewhat contrary to the Democratic liberties we enjoy.

Christianity tried this sort of approach during the Crusades around the 1000's and then later during the Spanish Inquisition in the 1400's.

Nowdays, we flood your culture with capitalism and porn and THEN send in missionaries to convert you from evil

It's a much more subtle yet acceptable approach.

What is this "Church fo Porn" that you speak of? I'd like to learn more about it.

**Dale Mabry** · 09-11-2006, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DOMS

What is this "Church fo Porn" that you speak of? I'd like to learn more about it.

You might know it by it's more common name, pedophilia.

DOMS · 09-11-2006, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dale Mabry

You might know it by it's more common name, pedophilia.

I don't want to join your church.

Witmaster · 09-11-2006, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DOMS

What is this "Church fo Porn" that you speak of? I'd like to learn more about it.

It's really not an organized religion as such... It's more of a "Cult Following"

Nate K · 09-11-2006, 05:39 PM

Yes a Muslim can be a good American.
You all have to much white pride. When threads come up like this you all just bash on non-whites...I know you have your reasons that you believe are the eternal truth because your older and more intelligent then most people on the board but it gets old when this shit happens over and over.

DOMS · 09-11-2006, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nate K

Yes a Muslim can be a good American.
You all have to much white pride. When threads come up like this you all just bash on non-whites...I know you have your reasons that you believe are the eternal truth because your older and more intelligent then most people on the board but it gets old when this shit happens over and over.

Who's bashing on non-whites? I like the Thai, Chinese, Japanese, Slavics, Jews, European Latinos, and Indians. Just because I fucking hate the Muslims doesn't mean that I hate all non-whites.

Hell, I even like Canadians.

fufu · 09-11-2006, 05:44 PM

I don't see much people here talking about race, but religion.

Nate K · 09-11-2006, 05:45 PM

eh....

Witmaster · 09-11-2006, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nate K

Yes a Muslim can be a good American.
You all have to much white pride. When threads come up like this you all just bash on non-whites...I know you have your reasons that you believe are the eternal truth because your older and more intelligent then most people on the board but it gets old when this shit happens over and over.

There's always some jackass that just cannot resist the temptation to throw the "race card"

TJ Cline · 09-11-2006, 05:53 PM

Jewish Terrorists From Israel Kill Non-Jews Every Day, Europe and America Do Absolutely Nothing to Stop It

Nate K · 09-11-2006, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Witmaster

There's always some jackass that just cannot resist the temptation to throw the "race card"

I'm not a jackass.

Witmaster · 09-11-2006, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForemanRules

Jewish Terrorists From Israel Kill Non-Jews Every Day, Europe and America Do Absolutely Nothing to Stop It

WTF does that have to do with muslims being good americans?

Witmaster · 09-11-2006, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nate K

I'm not a jackass.

Stop crying "race foul" at every little disagreement you have and prove otherwise

TJ Cline · 09-11-2006, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Witmaster

WTF does that have to do with muslims being good americans?

You tell me

Witmaster · 09-11-2006, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForemanRules

You tell me

That's easy.....

NOTHING!!

Nate K · 09-11-2006, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Witmaster

Stop crying "race foul" at every little disagreement you have and prove otherwise

Ok. a muslim can be a good person and a good person qualifies you to be a good american. thats it.

Witmaster · 09-11-2006, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nate K

Ok. a muslim can be a good person and a good person qualifies you to be a good american. thats it.

Very well put

Now... can a white guy be a good person?

maniclion · 09-11-2006, 06:12 PM

I knew several black americans in the Navy who were Muslim, a kid who lived on my block in Houston was a pure white muslim from the baltic area his parents were very nice, his father worked at NASA and his mom stayed home and baked us cookies all the time. The guy I interned for was a Black American Muslim, ret. USN Sen. Chief PO, his wife a muslim from Singapore they are both heads of the IT dept. in their companies. One of the guys I used to party with in Waikiki was muslim from Morroco he was alot of fun to hang around with.

Double D · 09-11-2006, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Witmaster

Very well put

Now... can a white guy be a good person?

Whites are nothing but trash and hillbillies. Oh wait a minute thats just me.

KataKlysm954 · 09-11-2006, 08:11 PM

muslims can be good americans. not all muslims are supportive on terrorist issues and many dont agree with the muslims that are giving the perspective to americans and others around the world as "muslims are terrorists and must be killed"due to muslim actions. the united states has freedom and this lets any one believe in what ever religion they like so as far as religion that does not play a role in a good american. muslims dont all have bad intentions and every one perseves them as all being bad. I much rather have muslims than ignorant ghetto hood rat blacks or border hopping mexicans.

thefutureisnow · 09-11-2006, 08:49 PM

No. They should all leave.

09-11-2006, 03:14 PM	#1
ReproMan SeÃ±or Member Elite Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Stuart, FL Posts: 7,260	Can a good Muslim be a good American? Can a good Muslim be a good American? I (meaning a friend of mine) sent that question to a friend who worked in Saudi Arabia for 20 years. The following is his reply: Theologically - no. Because his allegiance is to Allah, the moon god of Arabia. Religiously - no. Because no other religion is accepted by his Allah except Islam (Quran, 2:256) Scripturally - no. Because his allegiance is to the five pillars of Islam and the Quran (Koran). Geographically - no. Because his allegiance is to Mecca, to which he turns in prayer five times a day. Socially - no. Because his allegiance to Islam forbids him to make friends with Christians or Jews. Politically - no. Because he must submit to the mullah (spiritual leaders), who teach annihilation of Israel and Destruction of America, the great Satan. Domestically - no. Because he is instructed to marry four women and beat and scourge his wife when she disobeys him (Quran 4:34). Intellectually - no. Because he cannot accept the American Constitution since it is based on Biblical principles and he believes the Bible to be corrupt. Philosophically - no. Because Islam, Muhammad, and the Quran do not allow freedom of religion and expression. Democracy and Islam cannot co-exist.. Every Muslim government is either dictatorial or autocratic. Spiritually - no. Because when we declare "one nation under God," the Christian's God is loving and kind, while Allah is NEVER referred to as heavenly father, nor is he ever called love in The Quran's 99 excellent names. Therefore after much study and deliberation.... perhaps we should be very suspicious of ALL MUSLIMS in this country. They obviously cannot be both "good" Muslims and good Americans. Call it what you wish.... it's still the truth.

09-11-2006, 05:28 PM	#9
Witmaster Esprit de Corps Elite Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 4,995 Photos: 6	Technically.... I'd say "No" Since Islam (in it's purest interpretation) calls all of its' followers to either Convert, Enslave, or Destroy all non-believers I'd have to say that approach is somewhat contrary to the Democratic liberties we enjoy. Christianity tried this sort of approach during the Crusades around the 1000's and then later during the Spanish Inquisition in the 1400's. Nowdays, we flood your culture with capitalism and porn and THEN send in missionaries to convert you from evil It's a much more subtle yet acceptable approach. NEVER write a check with your mouth that you can't cash with your ASS!! I can run faster mad than you can scared "All right brain... I don't like you and you don't like me. So let's just do this and I'll get back to killing you with beer" ~ Homer Simpson

09-11-2006, 05:44 PM	#16
fufu fiendish thingy Elite Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 16,731 Photos: 8	I don't see much people here talking about race, but religion. fufu's 1337 Journal Your diet will set you free.

09-11-2006, 06:12 PM	#27
maniclion Cartographer of the Mind Elite Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Mens Incognita Posts: 20,435 Photos: 10	I knew several black americans in the Navy who were Muslim, a kid who lived on my block in Houston was a pure white muslim from the baltic area his parents were very nice, his father worked at NASA and his mom stayed home and baked us cookies all the time. The guy I interned for was a Black American Muslim, ret. USN Sen. Chief PO, his wife a muslim from Singapore they are both heads of the IT dept. in their companies. One of the guys I used to party with in Waikiki was muslim from Morroco he was alot of fun to hang around with. "We are like tenant farmers chopping down the fence around our house for fuel when we should be using Natures inexhaustible sources of energy — sun, wind and tide. ... I'd put my money on the sun and solar energy. What a source of power! I hope we don't have to wait until oil and coal run out before we tackle that." Thomas Edison: In conversation with Henry Ford and Harvey Firestone

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09-11-2006, 03:44 PM	#2
Dub guy Your Enemy! Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Endzone! Posts: 123	That's a heap of garbage...it's totally slanted...let's find an internet response from a smart muslim american to counter it and put this to bed..hmmm Quote: Best Answer - Chosen by Asker whoa whoa whoa there man... a muslim can be a good american, as are most muslims that i know and interact with. i'll take your points one at a time but before that, let me give you a general overview... the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon Him) began preaching Islam in Makkah -- there, he and his followers lived in Makkah, where most of the people where idol worshippers. later, he was pushed out of Makkah and went to Madinah, where he and his followers lived, in peace, amidst huge amounts of Jewish tribes. moreover, when he finally was able to go back to Makkah, it was a bloodless conquest... despite the fact that he and his followers were tortured and thrown out of Makkah by the people therein, and despite the fact that now, years later, the Prophet had power and people and could take revenge and killed the people who tortured them in Makkah, the opening of Makkah was a bloodless conquest. any islamic history book will document this fact, and that alone proves that a muslim can coexist with non muslims and be a good citizen of those respective countries. now... on to your points. 1. theologically, our alleigence is to Allah -- but that doesn't stop me from being a good citizen. i obey Allah, and worship Him and adhere to His words in the same exact way that a devout Christian or Jew would adhere to their books and beliefs. this doesn't make the Christian or Jew unable to be a good American, and likewise with the Muslim -- our allegience is to Allah, which means we obey His rules -- we pray, we fast, we help the needy and poor, we don't commit adultry, we don't drink alcohol, we don't steal, and we don't kill innocent people and so on -- none of these things go against being a good American. 2. religiously - even if Islam is the only accepted religion in the eyes of Allah, that doesn't mean that we as Muslims have the right to judge others. ask a devout Christian about Christianity -- he'll tell you that Jesus Christ's way is the only way and everyone else is wrong. likewise, Muslims will tell you that Islam is the only way and the other religions are wrong -- that doesn't mean that we're going to judge non Muslims as going to Hell, because no one knows the future and no one knows, even a great enemy to Islam might become a Muslim and we have to embrace him as our brother the next day. judging is left to God, so its not for us to judge. thus, this doesn't affect us being good Muslims. 3. scriptually - again, same as theologically - i can follow the 5 pillers of islam (belief in God, praying my 5 prayers, fasting ramadan, paying my charity (zakah), doing Hajj once in a lifetime), along with following the rules in the Quran (not stealing, not killing innocent people, doing good things, etc) without affecting me being a good American. as a matter of fact, a Muslim who adheres to God's rules IS a good American because he treats others with kindness even when treated poorly by others. 4. socially - the Prophet (peace be upon him) used to interact normally with the non Muslims of Makkah and Madinah -- there's nothing that prevents a Muslim from interacting and being nice to people around them - in fact, if a Muslim doesn't do that, how is he going to spread his religion? the spreading of religion comes by others seeing the way we act in accordance to our religion, thus they see the beauty of it and accept it. so this is out. 5. politically - no. our allegience is to God. America is not Satan, neither is Israel -- there are people in America and Israel (especially in the government) who want the destruction and demise of Islam and Muslims, but that doesn't mean that a. the general populace of these countries also want that, and b. that these people should be destroyed. quite the contrary. as i mentioned before, our job as Muslims is to follow the teachings of the true Islam, after which people will see the beauty of our religion. when people see the beauty of Islam, many people will accept it. the problem today is that there are some extremists who do things in the name of Islam, and people have come to associate their actions with the actions of every Muslim. what you and they don't realize, however, is that over 20% of the world's population is Muslim, and those terrorists do not even make up 1% of the number of Muslims -- its ridiculous to generalize about 1.3+ billion people based on what 200 terrorist do or say. 6. domestically - firstly, do you know why it was allowed for men to marry 4 women? secondly, how many people do you know have married four women? unfortunately, you hear "muslims can have 4 wives" - and you change it to "he is instructed to marry 4 women" -- that's not the case (wait, i am coming to the beating part, patience) -- a man can marry 4 women under very strict situations and circumstances which basically are very hard to fulfill these days. due to this, most men do not marry more than one woman. secondly, its definitely not an instruction or an order in any way. thirdly, when you look into the reason behind it, maybe you'll understand why its allowed. regarding the beating part - the problem is, you are taking an english translation and you are taking it out of context without understanding why or what its saying. i advise you to look at the verse's translation in an arabic tafseer book where it will be explained. suffice it to say that the Prophet, who is the example for all mankind, never hit his wives, and whenever he did, he hit them with a straw. yes, a straw. its not meant as beating. furthermore, i want to point out that islam is the first religion to give rights to women. the Prophet implemented this in his time - he opened the first islamic hospital and put a woman in charge of it to cure both men and women - some of the greatest teachers of Islam were women. the Prophet even took advice in crucial matters from his wives. i advise you to study rather than take things that you hear without looking them through. 7. intellectually - the Bible is the book of God. we believe it has been altered, but nothing in the constitution goes against my day to day religious practices or beliefs. notice it says "in God we trust" - "one nation under God" - these statements don't go against Islam in any way. if it had said "in Jesus we trust" or "one nation under Jesus," then maybe you'd be right, but it doesn't. 8. philosophically - no, you are absolutely wrong. islam is the first democracy. as a matter of fact, to the extent of the fact that if one person complained about a person the Prophet or one of the caliph's put in charge, even if that person was a liar, they had the person replaced with someone that everyone consented and agreed with. islam brought democracy, long before the idea ever was brought by western civilization. the prophet took the opinion and expression of his companions, even women as i said. i highly suggest you look into the islamic history books and see what islam really is about. 9. funny, i just mentioned that "one nation under God" doesn't say anything wrong... mind you, the Christian's father IS our Allah. Christans and Muslims worship the same God, its just that Christians also believe that Jesus is part of that God and the Holy Spirit is part of that God. we believe that God is 1, not in a trinity. and what are you saying about Allah not referred to as loving and kind? as a matter of fact, the first verse of the Quran says "in the name of God, the Beneficient, the Merciful" -- the very FIRST verse. in every chapter, God talks about His mercy and kindness -- i don't see where you're getting htis from. have you read the 99 names before you make this judgement? i take high offense to your statement. i am an American citizen and i've lived here all my life. my views are not liberal, they are the views of any mainstream Muslim. i've lived in this country, i've helped this country (by contributing my knowledge, ideas, time and effort to its schools, universities, corporate environments, and volunteer environments) - as have the majority of other Muslims. there is absolutely no reason based on some diluted views you hear about a few people in the media that you judge the beliefs and humanity of 1.3+ billion people in this way. i highly suggest you do your research before making such claims.

09-11-2006, 05:07 PM	#7
TJ Cline Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,545	Simple, we have 300 million people. Time to cut immigration in this country by 99%......and not let one fucking Arab or Mexican in ever again no matter what.

09-11-2006, 05:39 PM	#14
Nate K Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,739 Photos: 3	Yes a Muslim can be a good American. You all have to much white pride. When threads come up like this you all just bash on non-whites...I know you have your reasons that you believe are the eternal truth because your older and more intelligent then most people on the board but it gets old when this shit happens over and over.

09-11-2006, 05:45 PM	#17
Nate K Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,739 Photos: 3	eh....

09-11-2006, 05:53 PM	#19
TJ Cline Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,545	Jewish Terrorists From Israel Kill Non-Jews Every Day, Europe and America Do Absolutely Nothing to Stop It

09-11-2006, 08:11 PM	#29
KataKlysm954 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Fort lauderdale, Florida Posts: 203	muslims can be good americans. not all muslims are supportive on terrorist issues and many dont agree with the muslims that are giving the perspective to americans and others around the world as "muslims are terrorists and must be killed"due to muslim actions. the united states has freedom and this lets any one believe in what ever religion they like so as far as religion that does not play a role in a good american. muslims dont all have bad intentions and every one perseves them as all being bad. I much rather have muslims than ignorant ghetto hood rat blacks or border hopping mexicans.

09-11-2006, 08:49 PM	#30
thefutureisnow Registered User Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 203	No. They should all leave.