Thread: I Hate Poker!!!

How much did you lose?

700$ to a draw on the rvr. Guy had no business in the pot.

I took 1st out of 18 in a $5 game Friday, and 2nd out of 45 in a $10 game Sat. I did also lose 2 $5 games also this weekend but still way up.

Originally Posted by ForemanRules

I took 1st out of 18 in a $5 game Friday, and 2nd out of 45 in a $10 game Sat. I did also lose 2 $5 games also this weekend but still way up.

where do you play, on-line or live?


partypoker by anychance?

Originally Posted by viet_jon

where do you play, on-line or live?


partypoker by anychance?

Poker Stars, party poker is fixed IMO. But most of the time when I play it's with real people, I just don't trust the net games. But saying that I only play about 2-3 times a year.

Originally Posted by ForemanRules

Poker Stars, party poker is fixed IMO. But most of the time when I play it's with real people, I just don't trust the net games. But saying that I only play about 2-3 times a year.

it's not fixed. I can see why people have that opinion. The cards that are dealt are insane.

PP gets about 100k players a night. If you divide that by avg. 7 players a table. That's 15,000 tables running at once. They're max rake is 5 bux, so let's just say they avg. 1 dollar a table. That's 15,000 dollars per hand they rake. Times that by avg. 90 hands an hour......they're taking in 1.3 mill/hr at peak hours.

There's no need to setup bots to steal peoples money. There would be no winners, and that would kill the business.

Poker Stars seems to play like a real game. party poker has some odd swings you don't see in real life so I have to guess it is fixed to some degree.

In a local game the other night, guy had pocket kings and the flop came King, 10, 10.

he goes all in.
gets called.
he has a full house, so he wins, right?

Guy had pocket 10s for quads.

Train wrecks happen in real life too, the Partypoker stuff is just pure crap.

Originally Posted by ForemanRules

Poker Stars seems to play like a real game. party poker has some odd swings you don't see in real life so I have to guess it is fixed to some degree.

It is no more odd than what happens in real life. I have played 100,000's of hands on both sites and it's all the same stuff. Remember if you play 1000 hands and there is a 1% chance of having something odd happen... you should expect it to happen 10 times within those 1000 hands.

Originally Posted by Dbrickashaw

In a local game the other night, guy had pocket kings and the flop came King, 10, 10.

he goes all in.
gets called.
he has a full house, so he wins, right?

Guy had pocket 10s for quads.

Train wrecks happen in real life too, the Partypoker stuff is just pure crap.

That is odd... KK and he flopped KTT and went all in? Wow what a huge mistake. He should only have bet about 1/2 the pot... the same amount that he would have bet with AK, KQ, QQ, JJ... Try and make it look like a continuation bet. If someone is holding the last K, they might call a couple smaller bets. With this hand you don't want to chase away the QJ draws and the AK, KQ, KJ hands. You want them to pay you. The only way they will call an all in here is with a ten... and if they have the ten, chances are they are going to raise your small bet somewhere along the line and you can get them all in eventually anyway.

Originally Posted by NeilPearson

That is odd... KK and he flopped KTT and went all in? Wow what a huge mistake. He should only have bet about 1/2 the pot... the same amount that he would have bet with AK, KQ, QQ, JJ... Try and make it look like a continuation bet. If someone is holding the last K, they might call a couple smaller bets. With this hand you don't want to chase away the QJ draws and the AK, KQ, KJ hands. You want them to pay you. The only way they will call an all in here is with a ten... and if they have the ten, chances are they are going to raise your small bet somewhere along the line and you can get them all in eventually anyway.

ey ey captain!!!

Originally Posted by viet_jon

it's not fixed. I can see why people have that opinion. The cards that are dealt are insane.

PP gets about 100k players a night. If you divide that by avg. 7 players a table. That's 15,000 tables running at once. They're max rake is 5 bux, so let's just say they avg. 1 dollar a table. That's 15,000 dollars per hand they rake. Times that by avg. 90 hands an hour......they're taking in 1.3 mill/hr at peak hours.

There's no need to setup bots to steal peoples money. There would be no winners, and that would kill the business.

Where to you come up with those numbers. First if you play the tourn games they charge you 10%. that's $1 for a $5 game same charge as a $10 game. Then a $20 game cost you $20. These guys are making a fortune. Also if they sit in a computerized player and that person comes in the money, they don't havbe to pay that out to the players. It all done by computers and they can sit it up to do what they want and we would never know.

Originally Posted by Tough Old Man

Where to you come up with those numbers. First if you play the tourn games they charge you 10%. that's $1 for a $5 game same charge as a $10 game. Then a $20 game cost you $20. These guys are making a fortune. Also if they sit in a computerized player and that person comes in the money, they don't havbe to pay that out to the players. It all done by computers and they can sit it up to do what they want and we would never know.

These games are audited by 3rd party companies to show the validity of the game. They make money off the rake. They don't need to be putting computerized players in the game... besides computers aren't very good at poker or any game that gives incomplete information. They are very good at chess and backgammon because all the information needed for correct decisions is on the table. Not true with poker.

I have well over a million hands in my poker tracker database and I have looked at that data a lot and compared it to probabilities and nothing looks unusual about the data. The odds of getting hands are pretty much what you would mathematically expect to happen.

Originally Posted by NeilPearson

These games are audited by 3rd party companies to show the validity of the game. They make money off the rake. They don't need to be putting computerized players in the game... besides computers aren't very good at poker or any game that gives incomplete information. They are very good at chess and backgammon because all the information needed for correct decisions is on the table. Not true with poker.

I have well over a million hands in my poker tracker database and I have looked at that data a lot and compared it to probabilities and nothing looks unusual about the data. The odds of getting hands are pretty much what you would mathematically expect to happen.

true 100%

Originally Posted by Tough Old Man

Where to you come up with those numbers. First if you play the tourn games they charge you 10%. that's $1 for a $5 game same charge as a $10 game. Then a $20 game cost you $20. These guys are making a fortune. Also if they sit in a computerized player and that person comes in the money, they don't havbe to pay that out to the players. It all done by computers and they can sit it up to do what they want and we would never know.

If you look at the PP lobby, on the bottom shows how many players are on.
On a good night, they get 100,000 players.

Most tables have ten players, but there are also 6 player tables. But since some tables aern't full all the time, let's use an average of 7 players per table to do the math. (for convenience sake)

If you check the hands per hour column, lo is about 70 h/hr, and hi is about 135 h/hr. Let's use a medium of 100h/hr for the calculation.

Now, the max rake they take is $5, and minimum is 15cents. Since most tables are smaller limit, I'd say a fair avg. rake of all tables can be $1 dollar per table/per hand.







THE MATH

100,000plyers / 7 plyers.per.table = 14,285 simultaneous tables

14,285 tables x 1doll.per.table.for.rake = $14,285 dollars per hand for rake.

$14,285 x 100hands.hr = 1.428,500 million / per hour

The math isn't perfect considering there is a large percentage of players in tournaments......but hey, it's just a ballpark figure.





So back to the question, do they really need to cheat peoples money, and risk the chance of losing their players trust, if they we're pulling in 1.5 million per hour during peak hours? I think not.

I think your average rake is a little high. There is no way they are taking $5 from a $25 buy-in table. That and there is no rake on a lot of hands. It it gets taken down preflop... no rake. I would guess the average rake is closer to $0.20.

Isn't it 5% up to a certain amount? (Depending on table limits)

That and they give out quite a bit of cash in promotions.

They are making lots of money, but not as much as you think.

ya your right..........they're probably not making that much. Probably somewhere closer to 50c to 75c per hand.

I don't know the percentage, but limits 200nl and bigger usually rakes 3-5 bux. 5 is max no matter what limit.

Originally Posted by viet_jon

ya your right..........they're probably not making that much. Probably somewhere closer to 50c to 75c per hand.

I don't know the percentage, but limits 200nl and bigger usually rakes 3-5 bux. 5 is max no matter what limit.

It would be interesting to see what percentage of tables are $25 and $50 buy-in compared to the bigger tables.

I've never played before, and I'm not going to. I got a couple questions, though.

How long do these games take with a table of 8?

What happens if your computer crashes or your dsl goes down?

Just curious.

Originally Posted by boilermaker

I've never played before, and I'm not going to. I got a couple questions, though.

How long do these games take with a table of 8?

What happens if your computer crashes or your dsl goes down?

Just curious.

1. table of 8? you mean sitngo tournament? if so, they only have 6 and 10 plyrs,......15 to 40 mins.

2. A side pot is created with the money you invested in the pot. Hand goes to automatic showdown.

Originally Posted by viet_jon

1. table of 8? you mean sitngo tournament? if so, they only have 6 and 10 plyrs,......15 to 40 mins.

2. A side pot is created with the money you invested in the pot. Hand goes to automatic showdown.

1) So with multiple tables in your tournament it takes hours?

2) Bummer. Does that happen often?

Originally Posted by boilermaker

1) So with multiple tables in your tournament it takes hours?

2) Bummer. Does that happen often?

1. I've sat over 5 hours in a big tournament before. It is long, but if your luky to make it that far, it could be a nice payday.

2. It could be a good thing. Say someone puts you all-in and your not sure if your ahead or not, you can always pull the DSL wires........that way you don't have to call your stak off but still go to a showdown.

Originally Posted by viet_jon

2. It could be a good thing. Say someone puts you all-in and your not sure if your ahead or not, you can always pull the DSL wires........that way you don't have to call your stak off but still go to a showdown.

Huh? Wouldn't you be all in?

Originally Posted by boilermaker

Huh? Wouldn't you be all in?

say by the turn card you have $300 left and so does he.
say the pot is sitting at $250 at the turn card.

Your holding a two pair but there is a flush on the board. If he bets out $200, and your not sure if your ahead or not, you can pull your connection. You wouldn't have to fold or call $200, but the software will deal the river and shows down your cards to see who's bigger, giving you a chance to win the pot without calling your stak.

hope thats clear, i suk at expalining.

Originally Posted by viet_jon

say by the turn card you have $300 left and so does he.
say the pot is sitting at $250 at the turn card.

Your holding a two pair but there is a flush on the board. If he bets out $200, and your not sure if your ahead or not, you can pull your connection. You wouldn't have to fold or call $200, but the software will deal the river and shows down your cards to see who's bigger, giving you a chance to win the pot without calling your stak.

hope thats clear, i suk at expalining.

That sounds dirty.

So you can log back into the game?

Originally Posted by boilermaker

That sounds dirty.

So you can log back into the game?

ya it's cheating.


just make sure you don't log back in before the timer runs-out, because you would then have to call or fold. You get 60 seconds i think.

Originally Posted by NeilPearson

It is no more odd than what happens in real life. I have played 100,000's of hands on both sites and it's all the same stuff. Remember if you play 1000 hands and there is a 1% chance of having something odd happen... you should expect it to happen 10 times within those 1000 hands.

I disagree, I have played 100x more in real life and have never seen the odd card mix or strange odds on the net.

Originally Posted by ForemanRules

I disagree, I have played 100x more in real life and have never seen the odd card mix or strange odds on the net.

I agree 100%. Alot of crazy things happen online. LIve play is more sane.

But that doesn't necesarrily mean that online poker is rigged. Big trap hands mean bigger pots, which rack up the rake. More profit!!!