Thread: Lets talk about the soldiers.

No one in Iraq is fighting for my benefit. That's comforting illusion but only Bush has threatened my freedoms, not Iraq.

Originally Posted by KelJu

This is an excellent most, but it doesn't really belong in the other thread.
I agree with Decker a 100%, and I get the feeling that a lot of people were jumping his shit because they don't agree with his ideology.

Decker is (and always has been) quite passionate about his anti-Bush / Anti-Iraq War position. He makes good agruements and, sometimes, presses the envelope way outside the lines to stirr responses.

He's a lawyer. He's good at that shit. Although I don't feel comfortable addressing him in 3rd person (sorry Deck) he deserves better than that.

While I don't agree with his assessment that the war is "Criminal" or "Illegal" I can certainly appreciate the arguement.

Where I complete seperate ways with his recent posts is in his assessment that all soldiers in Iraq are criminals because they refuse to disobey orders. His recent statements seem to imply that all combat soldiers in Iraq should rebel against their command and refuse to participate otherwise, they should all be tried and executed in a Geneva War Tribunal. This ideology is simply ludicrous.

What happenes next time if we are actually fighting a war Decker (or anyone) might actually agree with and soldiers take it apon themselves to simply refuse to fight because they don't want to?

Furthermore.....

This whole Anti-Iraq war sentiment seems to have an embedded message that implies all our soldiers are doing over there is killing innocent civillians and burning villages. That is total bullshit and everyone should know it.

In another thread it was mentioned that the veterans of WW1 and WW2 were to be highly respected and honored.

While I couldn't agree more I'm curious how the public today would respond if we engaged the war in Iraq with the same strategy and tactics used in those two great wars.

Originally Posted by Witmaster

Furthermore.....

This whole Anti-Iraq war sentiment seems to have an embedded message that implies all our soldiers are doing over there is killing innocent civillians and burning villages. That is total bullshit and everyone should know it.

In another thread it was mentioned that the veterans of WW1 and WW2 were to be highly respected and honored.

While I couldn't agree more I'm curious how the public today would respond if we engaged the war in Iraq with the same strategy and tactics used in those two great wars.

I never said that, and I don't believe that. I have many friends that went to Afghanistan and Iraq. They told me how appreciative so many of the people were that were there. They also told me about the fucked up shit they saw. I could write 3 pages on just the stories they told me, but you guys have already heard that stuff over and over so I won't go there.

The main point I am trying to get across was that pointing obvious faults in our military doesn’t mean we don’t support it. I think of the US and the military as one organism. I also think of my country as a black sheep brother. I love it and support it, but I would not agree with it when he was doing stupid shit that would get itself in more trouble.

Since everyone likes to say “The troops are there in Iraq fighting for our freedom”. I say this: we should keep up the good fight against our corrupt politicians who do not give a shit about our troops. Lets fight for them. Don’t just agree blindly. George Bush doesn’t give a rat’s fucking ass about Joe Blow Jarhead getting shot in Baghdad. He doesn’t. This whole thing is nothing more than a chess game to him, and his troops are the chess pieces.

Originally Posted by Witmaster

Furthermore.....

This whole Anti-Iraq war sentiment seems to have an embedded message that implies all our soldiers are doing over there is killing innocent civillians and burning villages. That is total bullshit and everyone should know it.

In another thread it was mentioned that the veterans of WW1 and WW2 were to be highly respected and honored.

While I couldn't agree more I'm curious how the public today would respond if we engaged the war in Iraq with the same strategy and tactics used in those two great wars.

I don't think that, I just don't think anything good is being done over there, however that is not the troops fault, they are just doing their duty.

Originally Posted by Witmaster

Furthermore.....

This whole Anti-Iraq war sentiment seems to have an embedded message that implies all our soldiers are doing over there is killing innocent civillians and burning villages. That is total bullshit and everyone should know it.

There are about 50,000 dead iraqis that would disagree with you, if they were alive to argue. But they are not. And the only reason they are dead is b/c Bush jumped the gun on WMD inspections and ordered an illegal invasion. Sour fruit from a corrupt tree.

This is a dicy topic. I'm debating. Witmaster and I just happen to disagree.

Here's where I go to lighten up a bit:
http://www.sherdog.net/forums/showthread.php?t=322041

http://www.farts.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ult...?ubb=forum;f=1

Originally Posted by Decker

There are about 50,000 dead iraqis that would disagree with you, if they were alive to argue. But they are not. And the only reason they are dead is b/c Bush jumped the gun on WMD inspections and ordered an illegal invasion. Sour fruit from a corrupt tree.

This is a dicy topic. I'm debating. Witmaster and I just happen to disagree.

Here's where I go to lighten up a bit:
http://www.sherdog.net/forums/showthread.php?t=322041

http://www.farts.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ult...?ubb=forum;f=1

HA HA

Early usage

A well known usage of the fart in Middle English occurs in Chaucer's "Miller's Tale" (one of the Canterbury Tales). In the tale (which is told by a bawdy miller as a group of pilgrims travel to Canterbury), the character Nicholas hangs his buttocks out of a window and farts in the face of his rival Absolom, who is instead expecting a kiss. Absolom is humiliated by this gesture. Nicholas then attempts to repeat the prank, and Absolom then sears Nicholas's rear with a red-hot poker.

This Alison answered; "Who is there
That knocketh so? I warrant him a thief."
"Nay, nay," quoth he, "God wot, my sweete lefe,
I am thine Absolon, my own darling.
Of gold," quoth he, "I have thee brought a ring,
My mother gave it me, so God me save!
Full fine it is, and thereto well y-grave:
This will I give to thee, if thou me kiss."
Now Nicholas was risen up to piss,
And thought he would amenden all the jape;
He shoulde kiss his erse ere that he scape:
And up the window did he hastily,
And out his erse he put full privily
Over the buttock, to the haunche bone.
And therewith spake this clerk, this Absolon,
"Speak, sweete bird, I know not where thou art."
This Nicholas anon let fly a fart,
As great as it had been a thunder dent;
That with the stroke he was well nigh y-blent;
But he was ready with his iron hot,
And Nicholas amid the erse he smote.
Off went the skin an handbreadth all about.
The hote culter burned so his toutv,
That for the smart he weened he would die;
As he were wood, for woe he gan to cry,

http://www.farts.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ult...?ubb=forum;f=1




Rob, we need a fart forum. I was lughing for 5 minutes while reading stuff from that.

Originally Posted by Prince

I don't think that, I just don't think anything good is being done over there, however that is not the troops fault, they are just doing their duty.

And I think you and many others are desperately and sadly misinformed of all that goes on over there.

Originally Posted by Witmaster

He's a lawyer.

Huh? I never knew that, he seems so nice?

Originally Posted by min0 lee

Huh? I never knew that, he seems so nice?

Yea... he befriends you... earns your trust.... lures you out into the street with good booze and then laughs with delight when you get by the passing bus

He then offers you his business card with a pledge to represent you in your lawsuit against the bus company.

Yea.... he's good.

My best friend is in the infantry.

Originally Posted by Witmaster

Yea... he befriends you... earns your trust.... lures you out into the street with good booze and then laughs with delight when you get by the passing bus

He then offers you his business card with a pledge to represent you in your lawsuit against the bus company.

Yea.... he's good.

Originally Posted by Witmaster

Yea... he befriends you... earns your trust.... lures you out into the street with good booze and then laughs with delight when you get by the passing bus

He then offers you his business card with a pledge to represent you in your lawsuit against the bus company.

You say that as if there's something wrong with it.

A man's got to earn a living.

Now let's go 'cross the street for a drink.

I'm buying.

Originally Posted by KelJu

http://www.farts.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ult...?ubb=forum;f=1




Rob, we need a fart forum. I was lughing for 5 minutes while reading stuff from that.

Did you notice all the women that post at farts.com?

Astonishing.

It took me months to acclimate my wife to the ways of the fart. I seduced her to the dark side.

Originally Posted by Witmaster

And I think you and many others are desperately and sadly misinformed of all that goes on over there.

I agree, our government has led us to believe that we are actually doing good over there.

Originally Posted by Prince

I agree, our government has led us to believe that we are actually doing good over there.

And people are so blinded by their wholesale acceptance of Anti-war rhetoric that they refuse to see anything otherwise. Prior to the election all you ever heard on the news about Iraq was the up-to-date death toll of American casualties. Sad... but that's all seems to be of interest to the media and the viewing public. Sure.. it's fine to be "anti-war". Whats tragic is that the continuing efforts and accomplishments of our people over there are widely ignored because people refuse to believe that anything good could possibly come of this.

Yes, it is all too true and tragic that there are bad things happening in Iraq. But, have you ever stopped to consider the testimonies of service men and women who have positive things to report?

Sure... you can blame the government for attempting to "brainwash" the public into believing in this war. I suppose that makes it easier to dismiss the efforts of our forces as being "no good at all".

No, because I think it is wrong (stupid and ignorant) to invade a country, overthrow their leader and impose our type of government, beliefs, values, etc.

Originally Posted by Prince

No, because I think it is wrong (stupid and ignorant) to invade a country, overthrow their leader and impose our type of government, beliefs, values, etc.

True. But.. as memory recalls.... it was Saddam who first invaded Kuwait and then refused to comply with the U.N. Resolutions required by the Cease-Fire agreement.

Originally Posted by Witmaster

True. But.. as memory recalls.... it was Saddam who first invaded Kuwait and then refused to comply with the U.N. Resolutions required by the Cease-Fire agreement.

so, two wrongs make a right, or that gave us the right to do what we did?

Originally Posted by Prince

so, two wrongs make a right, or that gave us the right to do what we did?

• We were called in by the UN and the Kuwaitis.
• We went to war with Iraq.
• We ceased fire with the agreement that Iraq cease all hostiles and allow the inspectors in with unfettered access.
• Iraq did not meet the conditions of the cease fire.
• We finished the war.

Why is that so hard for you to understand?

Originally Posted by DOMS

• We were called in by the UN and the Kuwaitis.
• We went to war with Iraq.
• We ceased fire with the agreement that Iraq cease all hostiles and allow the inspectors in with unfettered access.
• Iraq did not meet the conditions of the cease fire.
• We finished the war.

Why is that so hard for you to understand?

Because he's a pacifist and hates war.

Originally Posted by largepkg

Because he's a pacifist and hates war.

Red Vs Blue:

Church: [Frank has arrived too late to save Tex's life] First of all, great job on the Tex, man. Mission accomplished. Secondly, the way that we need you to assist is to help us kill all the Reds.
Frank DuFresne: Well, even if my orders didn't prohibit me from doing that, I still wouldn't. I joined the army as a conscientious objector.
Tucker: Consci... who?
Frank DuFresne: I'm a pacifist.
Caboose: ...You're a thing that babies suck on?
Tucker: No, dude, that's a pedophile.
Church: Tucker, I think he means a pacifier.
Tucker: Oh, yeah. Right. Man, I was totally thinking about something else.
Church: That's real classy, Tucker.

Originally Posted by DOMS

• We were called in by the UN and the Kuwaitis.
• We went to war with Iraq.
• We ceased fire with the agreement that Iraq cease all hostiles and allow the inspectors in with unfettered access.
• Iraq did not meet the conditions of the cease fire.
• We finished the war.

Why is that so hard for you to understand?

gee thanks, and here all this time I thought it was about oil and power.

Originally Posted by Prince

gee thanks, and here all this time I thought it was about oil and power.

It must be about the oil. I mean, look how much the price of oil has dropped since 2000.

But don't let the facts get in your way.

Originally Posted by DOMS

• We were called in by the UN and the Kuwaitis.
• We went to war with Iraq.
• We ceased fire with the agreement that Iraq cease all hostiles and allow the inspectors in with unfettered access.
• Iraq did not meet the conditions of the cease fire.
• We finished the war.

Why is that so hard for you to understand?

Iraq was a like a recalcitrant child but the fact is, is that Iraq did comply.

Bush was given authority to use force. He misused that authority by attacking before the weapon's inspectors finished the job of inspecting Iraq for evidence of WMDs.

We haven't finished any war.

Bush wanted the invasion for many reasons I'd guess. The main, and most recent, iteration is that the US was going to bomb Iraq into a new democracy in direct opposition to 5000 years of Iraqi ethnic and religious differences. Somehow, counting the votes of these cultural aliens was supposed transform them into peaceful, quasi-american populists.

The very idea is hopelessly idealistic.

Originally Posted by Decker

Iraq was a like a recalcitrant child but the fact is, is that Iraq did comply.

Just because you'd like to believe so, doesn't make it so. He only really complied just as we were about to attack. To little, to late.

Originally Posted by Decker

Bush was given authority to use force. He misused that authority by attacking before the weapon's inspectors finished the job of inspecting Iraq for evidence of WMDs.

We didn't need anyone's approval to attack. After we went to war, it was always our right to finish it.

Also, they inspectors couldn't do the job even after a decade. 10 years is long enough.

Originally Posted by Decker

We haven't finished any war.

By the standard of the good ol' days, it is. Personally, I don't agree with the pansy ideology that we have to help rebuild after we beat the shit out of an enemy. We should simply show up, destroy as much as we need to (or want to), smoke 'em if you got 'em, and then go home.

Originally Posted by Decker

Bush wanted the invasion for many reasons I'd guess. The main, and most recent, iteration is that the US was going to bomb Iraq into a new democracy in direct opposition to 5000 years of Iraqi ethnic and religious differences. Somehow, counting the votes of these cultural aliens was supposed transform them into peaceful, quasi-american populists.

The very idea is hopelessly idealistic.

I agree with you on this.

Originally Posted by Prince

so, two wrongs make a right, or that gave us the right to do what we did?

Ok... well let's break this down into more simple terms.....


You have two sons. One is obviously stronger and far more powerful than the other.

One day.. the stronger son, without provocation, starts kicking the living shit out of the weaker. This bloody ass-kicking continues despite the cries of others around to stop.

Finally... you intervene to stop the stronger brother's attack. You then tell the offending brother than unless he agrees to say he's sorry, you'll give him a spanking.


Hours... days... and weeks go by and nothing changes. the stronger brother refuses to comply with your requirements and defiantly thumbs his nose at you. He knows you'll never follow through with your promise of punishment.

What do you do?