Thread: Steve Is Drowning

Not liking the article at all.

haven't even read it....but I usually only have about two authors on that board I will read. TC is not one of them. He is a fucking dip shit.

Fuck Steve. He should have done some soul searching before blowing loads in his wife and making new human beings.

Feel sorry for guys like Steve? Never!

I’ll tell you who I feel sorry for. The guys who loved their children, but lost them in a custody battle, then the mom takes the kids half-way across the country making it damn near impossible for the father to keep his job to pay the outrageous amount of child support. If the father quits his job and moves closer to where the mother moved so that he might actually see them on the week-ends, he won’t make enough money to pay the child support and alimony.


I do liek the article for one reason: the educational value. All guys should read that before having sex.

Originally Posted by KelJu

Fuck Steve. He should have done some soul searching before blowing loads in his wife and making new human beings.

Feel sorry for guys like Steve? Never!

I’ll tell you who I feel sorry for. The guys who loved their children, but lost them in a custody battle, then the mom takes the kids half-way across the country making it damn near impossible for the father to keep his job to pay the outrageous amount of child support. If the father quits his job and moves closer to where the mother moved so that he might actually see them on the week-ends, he won’t make enough money to pay the child support and alimony.

TC's point is that if a guy took his time and planned out his life more intelligently, shit like this would happen less often.

Originally Posted by P-funk

haven't even read it....but I usually only have about two authors on that board I will read. TC is not one of them. He is a fucking dip shit.

Why do you think that TC is an idiot? His thoughts on training, his randoms thoughts, or both?

Originally Posted by dg806

Not liking the article at all.

You're a family guy, you not really supposed to.

I see way too many unhappy people out there in relationships that are more a life sentence than a happy communion. I think that if people thought it through, there'd be less of that.

Originally Posted by DOMS

TC's point is that if a guy took his time and planned out his life more intelligently, shit like this would happen less often.

Oh yeah, I agree 100% That is what I was talking about when I said I liked the educational value.

The fuck steve rant was just my thoughts going off on a tangent as usual.

Originally Posted by dg806

Not liking the article at all.

You were steve at one point, weren't you? :P

Originally Posted by DOMS

Why do you think that TC is an idiot? His thoughts on training, his randoms thoughts, or both?

All of his thought. I hate how he writes and what he writes is just stupid. I find him incredibly annoying.

Originally Posted by P-funk

All of his thought. I hate how he writes and what he writes is just stupid. I find him incredibly annoying.

So he's not to be trusted on his thoughts regarding training? Got it.

Good post DOMS.

"..others, the smart ones, don't venture out to the water until it's safe." Work out what's best for you, before taking the deep breath and the plunge.....true words. It's your life, you are the priority, think before acting.



Well, i think that's my cliche limited reached today........

I was raised by my father, it was my mother who bitched out like Steve-o here and decided she wanted more out of life like partying until 4 or 5 in the morning while my dad stayed home and raised us, so he packed us up and moved and then filed divorce papers...now she has to support my 25yo brother and 33 yo sister because they won't get jobs, not because she wants to but because guilt makes her think that she is supposed to...

Originally Posted by maniclion

I was raised by my father, it was my mother who bitched out like Steve-o here and decided she wanted more out of life like partying until 4 or 5 in the morning while my dad stayed home and raised us, so he packed us up and moved and then filed divorce papers...now she has to support my 25yo brother and 33 yo sister because they won't get jobs, not because she wants to but because guilt makes her think that she is supposed to...

In the story, Steve hadn't left. Actually, the article never even implied that you should. It just said that you should do thing for the right reasons (or at least your own) and not because it's expected of you or becuase you're just drifting through life.

Originally Posted by DOMS

In the story, Steve hadn't left. Actually, the article never even implied that you should. It just said that you should do thing for the right reasons (or at least your own) and not because it's expected of you or becuase you're just drifting through life.

That is an interesting point you make. How many people do you think actually do soul searching before they make a big decision? I really don't know. I can only speak for myself when I say I dwell forever on a decision before I ever come to a conclusion. I have mapped out my life over a 1000 times. Every time someone in my life changes, I figure the change into my plan and rethink everything. I have lived my life over and over and over. I have made lots of mistakes, but only when I didn't follow my own plan. When I am in traffic I am thinking about my life, when I am up at night I am thinking about the decisions I need to make, the stuff I need to do. I obsess over decisions constantly. Then I see these people walking around aimlessly like Mr. Magoo without a care in the world, and I want to kick them in the balls.

When I think of Steve, I think of my father. My Dad was the toughest son of bitch I have ever known. He was the work horse that set the standard of men as far as I am concerned. He would work 40 to 50 hours a week at the plant, then come home and work until dark. He would wake me and my brother up on Saturday and Sunday to go work in the woods cutting firewood or planting crops. If we didn’t work in the woods or the fields, we spent all day at our house working.

I FUCKING HATED IT!!!! I could not understand how a man could be some mother fucking driven. I had always assumed he did it because he wanted to. Now that I am my own man, and I understand life and why people did things, I realize he did it because he had to. He had to save money everywhere he could to keep us afloat. He never bought things for himself. He wore the same ugly ass worn denim pants and blue-collar work shirts. He drove the same POS F-150 truck. I rarely ever saw him smile, and never in my life have I ever seen my parents show any sort of physical affection towards one another.

Had they not had my brother and they surely would have split up or killed each other. But, they held together for us. They did it fro my brother and I. they did it because they were suppose to. They did it because it was the right thing to do.

I would love to ask my dad what he would have done with his life had he not had a wife and kids, because he sure as fuck never looked happy.

Originally Posted by KelJu

That is an interesting point you make. How many people do you think actually do soul searching before they make a big decision? I really don't know. I can only speak for myself when I say I dwell forever on a decision before I ever come to a conclusion. I have mapped out my life over a 1000 times. Every time someone in my life changes, I figure the change into my plan and rethink everything. I have lived my life over and over and over. I have made lots of mistakes, but only when I didn't follow my own plan. When I am in traffic I am thinking about my life, when I am up at night I am thinking about the decisions I need to make, the stuff I need to do. I obsess over decisions constantly. Then I see these people walking around aimlessly like Mr. Magoo without a care in the world, and I want to kick them in the balls.

When I think of Steve, I think of my father. My Dad was the toughest son of bitch I have ever known. He was the work horse that set the standard of men as far as I am concerned. He would work 40 to 50 hours a week at the plant, then come home and work until dark. He would wake me and my brother up on Saturday and Sunday to go work in the woods cutting firewood or planting crops. If we didn’t work in the woods or the fields, we spent all day at our house working.

I FUCKING HATED IT!!!! I could not understand how a man could be some mother fucking driven. I had always assumed he did it because he wanted to. Now that I am my own man, and I understand life and why people did things, I realize he did it because he had to. He had to save money everywhere he could to keep us afloat. He never bought things for himself. He wore the same ugly ass worn denim pants and blue-collar work shirts. He drove the same POS F-150 truck. I rarely ever saw him smile, and never in my life have I ever seen my parents show any sort of physical affection towards one another.

Had they not had my brother and they surely would have split up or killed each other. But, they held together for us. They did it fro my brother and I. they did it because they were suppose to. They did it because it was the right thing to do.

I would love to ask my dad what he would have done with his life had he not had a wife and kids, because he sure as fuck never looked happy.

Most people don't give much thought to any part of their lives. I didn't up until a few years ago.

On the other hand, I don't think that a person should try to wring every last bit of predictiblity out of their lives, either.

Most people try to remove as much risk out of their lives as possible. And what horribly wretched people they are. They find a rut and do their best to stay in it, forever wondering why life isn't that interesting.

As for your dad, just because he didn't look happy, didn't mean that he wasn't happy. Some people find happiness with monumental burdens. To each their own. No one "ideal" life is really ideal for everyone.

Originally Posted by KelJu

...

The fuck steve rant was just my thoughts going off on a tangent as usual.

No offense but I sometimes wonder if you are Bi-polar or a victom of Tourette's Disorder?

Originally Posted by Witmaster

No offense but I sometimes wonder if you are Bi-polar or a victom of Tourette's Disorder?

I have been trying for a while now to stop the profanity, but I think in profanities, so it is hard. I appreciate you bringing it to my attention, because I really do need to stop.

Originally Posted by KelJu

I have been trying for a while now to stop the profanity, but I think in profanities, so it is hard. I appreciate you bringing it to my attention, because I really do need to stop.

Hey it's cool.

It's just kinda funny how you'll be strumming along in a calm discussion and then...

WHAM!!!
Mother ( &*&$%# Son-of-a- ($^^%$ ) C*ck )$#!&&# A$$ Lickin )!&$ ( Suck my ever-lovin $%&$^&$%)$


Kinda reminds me of my Marine Corps Drill Instructors

Kelju's father and mine could have been brothers.

Dad was a workaholic. At a young age, his own father died, and he eventually became the man of the house, bearing up as both son and father in the household at age 14. When he married my mother, he continued to help his own mother, my mothers aunt (who was more mother to her than her own) and take care of our family of 4 kids. Had they not had 4, life could have far been easier for them. They both believed the ideal family was 4 kids.

My father was often angry - and abusive psychologically when we didn't measure up to his high standards - he was very driven to achieve and for his family to achieve as well. Not a good game player (in corporate life), he grew morose when Detroit automotive management stupidly fell into assinine hiring of younger men fresh out of college, sans experience, promoting them quickly over the more experienced middle management in the 1960s and 70s. Well, the automotive, steel, and other heavy manufacturing industries ended up with a mess due to the Peter Principle. So my father, and many others like him, became disillusioned with life. Tired of the burden of always going beyond the call of duty, tired of not being recognized as the pillars and long haul staples of the workplace and home..they quietly resigned themselves to a life of grinding endless labor. Smiling was not an option. Life was not a bed of roses. These men became clinically depressed, often minor alcoholics, feeding a lack of pleasure with the wrong foods, worsening their depression and their neurochemical imbalances, feeding their aggression and angry outbursts at their families.

This became the endemic problem of the dysfunctional family of the last part of the 20th century.

Their only sin: they lacked recognition of self fulfillment, the ability to see their cups as full, it was always..more. Inculcated with the hardship of the depression, their parents ground into them the need to be thrifty, to save, to be the ultimate do-it-yourselfers. And they were..but at what expense?

These men throw up coping mechanisms, emotional walls, to protect themselves from fear of failure, to make them into the impregnable, undefeatable force they see as their role, their responsibility in their jobs, and to their families.

While the hard work and courage of these men is laudable... there is also an element of cruelty in their treatment of their families. Their children (and I was the oldest, I got drafted right alongside my siblings to do the hard labor of many projects, including ..yes, cutting wood, automotive and house repairs, yard maintenance..if that meant digging the septic field or planting dozens of larger trees and bushes in ambitious yard work projects, or laying cement or roofing, I was the donkey slave, right along with my brothers) were ready supply of labor, and needed to be taught a work ethic.

That meant NOT having the typical childhood you read about, or saw on TV, the after school athletics, the idyllic time spent playing with friends. It meant consulting a posted schedule of projects, with work assignments. It meant having very little free time, of assumed responsibility at a young age, of putting away the thoughts and pleasures of childhood at 12, to assume your place in the productive hours before and after school. At 15, that meant a job to save for college. That meant hand me down clothes or seconds generously given by family well to do friends..who saw you had not, because your parents chose to skimp and save. New clothing, a winter coat that kept up with your growing body, was a luxury.

Well goodie. I learned that ethic, all too well, and married a workaholic as well. 14 hour days and long weekends, every weekend, no days off..working holidays..well, that was par for the course, seen as necessary.

At some point, the slow dawning that this is not healthy, that this attitude of unsmiling and grim assumption of burdens because its the way our parents taught us..begins to sink in.

Why did this article grind some of us? Because Stevie boy is the quintessential silver spoon kid, who never grew up.

Some of us didn't have that luxury. This is also written by a man who has the earmarks of a Steve, who is very self centered and self preoccupied with life.

He is not for family, he is for himself. He is at the other end of the spectrum from what Kelju, and DG, and I knew, men who assumed the responsibility of career and family life, took it very seriously, that it became a sentence, and the home just another job, albeit unpaid. They forgot to smell the roses. The Stevie boys are disillusioned, because family life is also hard work, requiring an element of selflessness and devotion to others.

If there is advice to be gained from a story like Steves, it should be this:

Don't waste your time, and those of a wife, in having a family when you still a boy in a man's body. Come back later, when you recognize the balanced life and emotional maturity that a man must have firmly in hand, if he wishes to assume the responsibility of partnering and parenting.

Originally Posted by Trouble

Kelju's father and mine could have been brothers.

They both had kids with Tourette's?

Originally Posted by Dale Mabry

They both had kids with Tourette's?

You mean, could I swear like a sailor because that was what I saw, in monumental model displays of anger at a young age from my ole man?

Why yes, I suppose that's true.

Originally Posted by Trouble

Kelju's father and mine could have been brothers.

Dad was a workaholic. At a young age, his own father died, and he eventually became the man of the house, bearing up as both son and father in the household at age 14. When he married my mother, he continued to help his own mother, my mothers aunt (who was more mother to her than her own) and take care of our family of 4 kids. Had they not had 4, life could have far been easier for them. They both believed the ideal family was 4 kids.

My father was often angry - and abusive psychologically when we didn't measure up to his high standards - he was very driven to achieve and for his family to achieve as well. Not a good game player (in corporate life), he grew morose when Detroit automotive management stupidly fell into assinine hiring of younger men fresh out of college, sans experience, promoting them quickly over the more experienced middle management in the 1960s and 70s. Well, the automotive, steel, and other heavy manufacturing industries ended up with a mess due to the Peter Principle. So my father, and many others like him, became disillusioned with life. Tired of the burden of always going beyond the call of duty, tired of not being recognized as the pillars and long haul staples of the workplace and home..they quietly resigned themselves to a life of grinding endless labor. Smiling was not an option. Life was not a bed of roses. These men became clinically depressed, often minor alcoholics, feeding a lack of pleasure with the wrong foods, worsening their depression and their neurochemical imbalances, feeding their aggression and angry outbursts at their families.

This became the endemic problem of the dysfunctional family of the last part of the 20th century.

Their only sin: they lacked recognition of self fulfillment, the ability to see their cups as full, it was always..more. Inculcated with the hardship of the depression, their parents ground into them the need to be thrifty, to save, to be the ultimate do-it-yourselfers. And they were..but at what expense?

These men throw up coping mechanisms, emotional walls, to protect themselves from fear of failure, to make them into the impregnable, undefeatable force they see as their role, their responsibility in their jobs, and to their families.

While the hard work and courage of these men is laudable... there is also an element of cruelty in their treatment of their families. Their children (and I was the oldest, I got drafted right alongside my siblings to do the hard labor of many projects, including ..yes, cutting wood, automotive and house repairs, yard maintenance..if that meant digging the septic field or planting dozens of larger trees and bushes in ambitious yard work projects, or laying cement or roofing, I was the donkey slave, right along with my brothers) were ready supply of labor, and needed to be taught a work ethic.

That meant NOT having the typical childhood you read about, or saw on TV, the after school athletics, the idyllic time spent playing with friends. It meant consulting a posted schedule of projects, with work assignments. It meant having very little free time, of assumed responsibility at a young age, of putting away the thoughts and pleasures of childhood at 12, to assume your place in the productive hours before and after school. At 15, that meant a job to save for college. That meant hand me down clothes or seconds generously given by family well to do friends..who saw you had not, because your parents chose to skimp and save. New clothing, a winter coat that kept up with your growing body, was a luxury.

Well goodie. I learned that ethic, all too well, and married a workaholic as well. 14 hour days and long weekends, every weekend, no days off..working holidays..well, that was par for the course, seen as necessary.

At some point, the slow dawning that this is not healthy, that this attitude of unsmiling and grim assumption of burdens because its the way our parents taught us..begins to sink in.

Why did this article grind some of us? Because Stevie boy is the quintessential silver spoon kid, who never grew up.

Some of us didn't have that luxury. This is also written by a man who has the earmarks of a Steve, who is very self centered and self preoccupied with life.

He is not for family, he is for himself. He is at the other end of the spectrum from what Kelju, and DG, and I knew, men who assumed the responsibility of career and family life, took it very seriously, that it became a sentence, and the home just another job, albeit unpaid. They forgot to smell the roses. The Stevie boys are disillusioned, because family life is also hard work, requiring an element of selflessness and devotion to others.

If there is advice to be gained from a story like Steves, it should be this:

Don't waste your time, and those of a wife, in having a family when you still a boy in a man's body. Come back later, when you recognize the balanced life and emotional maturity that a man must have firmly in hand, if he wishes to assume the responsibility of partnering and parenting.

Nailed it! That is the most accurate portrayal of my father I have ever seen. I love him, and I would never hold it against him, but the man was fucked up. I don’t want to live like that, and I won’t. If that means having a vasectomy until the time when I can provide for a comfortable life with my family then so be it.

I’ll say it again, and sorry witmaster, but fuck Steve.

My father raised 2 well behaved sons, and my sister for several years of which we never did without the necessities of life...though the first 3 years were tough and we hardly saw him due to working late life was good...when he sought out a new mate he looked for one with a strong motherly instinct of course my sister having been the mother figure in our lives for 3 years they had conflicts and my sister decided to live with our Mom(another reason was that my sister could get away with more living with my Mom who ended up losing her to foster parents). Anyway our *new* Mom was wonderful, right away she started bank accounts for my brother and I and started setting aside college money...being 40 and having had to leave her daughter with her abusive husband in New York her mothering was very strong and disciplined...we both called her Mom within a few months time. All was well for sometime my Father and new Mother bought a home in the best school district in Houston and they were both super strict disciplinarians...they made sure I was on the honor roll every report card...
I know I'm just tooting my fathers horn, but this article made me think what kind of asshole would have kids and not want the best for them? How can he not find time to do things for himself? Cause my father had plenty of time for himself and he worked at a tougher job than Kinko's he owned his own business and had a full time job...yet he still found time to entertain himself...anyway I just miss my pop he died 3 years ago Dec. 13 2003 at the young age of 50 and I never got the chance to tell him how much I appreciated his toughness on me and the lessons he taught me...

Originally Posted by DOMS

You're a family guy, you not really supposed to.

I see way too many unhappy people out there in relationships that are more a life sentence than a happy communion. I think that if people thought it through, there'd be less of that.

Well, I'm divorced and happy. I love my two children and they mean the world to me. I'm sure when the time is right I will get married again. Just sounds like the author has an ax to grind against someone? It goes both ways too.

Originally Posted by Dale Mabry

You were steve at one point, weren't you? :P

I guess as far as being divorced, yeah. But that doesn't make me hate all women. Even though the one near you didn't go well........
There are plenty more big boobs out there

Originally Posted by dg806

Well, I'm divorced and happy. I love my two children and they mean the world to me. I'm sure when the time is right I will get married again. Just sounds like the author has an ax to grind against someone? It goes both ways too.

An ax to grind? I think he's just stating his opinion from his view point.

Originally Posted by DOMS

An ax to grind? I think he's just stating his opinion from his view point.

I think Trouble summed it up well. I think he is immature and doesn't want to accept responsibility as an adult. If you don't want to share your life and have the responsibility as a father, then don't get married. Don't bitch about it later when you don't get everything you wish. Thats life.
Of course I am speaking from a point in life with a little more experience than alot here. Look at Manics post about his father. What would have happened if his father felt that they were not worth it? What is important to you in your 20's, will not be what is important to you when you are in your 40's.

Originally Posted by dg806

I think Trouble summed it up well. I think he is immature and doesn't want to accept responsibility as an adult. If you don't want to share your life and have the responsibility as a father, then don't get married. Don't bitch about it later when you don't get everything you wish. Thats life.
Of course I am speaking from a point in life with a little more experience than alot here. Look at Manics post about his father. What would have happened if his father felt that they were not worth it? What is important to you in your 20's, will not be what is important to you when you are in your 40's.

Keep in mind that the author is not Steve. I get the impression that he's not yet married. He also wasn't advocating that people shouldn't get married. He was saying that so many guys get married for the wrong (or no good) reasons. Which is what you just said by saying "If you don't want to share your life and have the responsibility as a father, then don't get married." Some guys do it way to soon. They didn't have a chance to be on their own person.

I figured that the article would rub some people here the wrong way. You'd have women getting upset because it's from a guy's point of view. You'd have the fathers getting mad because they have children and it seems as though he's advocating never having children (which he's not).