Thread: Why America Goes To War

I'm not exactly sure what in this documentary is true and what isn't. I try best to be skeptical of everything I hear, read, or see. But this documentary is very convincing to me.

I read the Bush Administration thread and there seams to be quite a few smart people on IM that know about this stuff, Decker, Crusher, Doms to name a few.

What do YOU think about this documentary? Biased? or is it the truth being told?






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some interesting facts from the video:


- What's going on is a belief that the public doesn't need to know. Limiting access, limited information, to cover the backsides of those who are in charge of the war is extremely dangerous. Dan Rathers of CbC News

-Eisenhower's farewell speech warning Americans the danger of corruption and the Military Industrial Complex

-The US spent 401.7 billion dollars on defense for fiscal year 2005

-Saddam has weapons of mass destruction?

Rumsfeld claims iraq is 'actively' attaining uranium for the creation of nuclear weapons.

The truth is this so called 'actively' actually took place in 1982. There is no evidence saddam has recently been seeking uranium.

It's over an hour and a half long; I'll watch it tomorrow, but I can already figure out what the basic premise is just from watching the first two minutes.

Originally Posted by viet_jon

Rumsfeld claims iraq is 'actively' attaining uranium for the creation of nuclear weapons.

Saddam did have a plan to build nuclear weapons. It was set back by the Israelis. Not stopped, only set back. The UN weapons inspectors were detained because they ran across proof of his continuing plan.

Originally Posted by DOMS

Saddam did have a plan to build nuclear weapons. It was set back by the Israelis. Not stopped, only set back. The UN weapons inspectors were detained because they ran across proof of his continuing plan.

Still Bush lied when he said Saddam HAD weapons of mass destruction.

Why does America go to war?

Almost (but not always) because of:


economic interests.

Originally Posted by DOMS

Saddam did have a plan to build nuclear weapons. It was set back by the Israelis. Not stopped, only set back. The UN weapons inspectors were detained because they ran across proof of his continuing plan.

That name always pops up. And close to the heart of most troubles.

Originally Posted by goob

That name always pops up. And close to the heart of most troubles.

They solved that problem, when no one else would.

Originally Posted by DOMS

Saddam did have a plan to build nuclear weapons. It was set back by the Israelis. Not stopped, only set back. The UN weapons inspectors were detained because they ran across proof of his continuing plan.

According to the documentary, Saddam had no plans to build nuclear weapons. The Uranium he was seeking was back in 1982. The fact was blown out of context to get American's support.

I havn't been following too much, but I believe there was nothing of WMD found in iraq.


I'm not stating the above as fact, as I only regurgitate what I hear and see on television. But after watching the document, it sadens me that the motive behind war is BUSINESS. People die so others get richer. How fucked up is that?

Originally Posted by Big Smoothy

Why does America go to war?

Almost (but not always) because of:


economic interests.

true in a sense.

but if think about it, and put yourself in their seat. What are those top politicians thinking about when they do what they do? Do they really care and worry about the future of America? MY guess would be NO. They do what they do for their own interest, not in the interest of the average American.

Originally Posted by viet_jon

According to the documentary, Saddam had no plans to build nuclear weapons.

You just convinced me not to watch the movie.

The UN weapons inspectors were detained (in '98 or '99) becuase they found plans for Saddam's bid to make nuclear weapons and they wouldn't leave without them. They were held for almost a week (I think, this is from memory).

Originally Posted by DOMS

You just convinced me not to watch the movie.

The UN weapons inspectors were detained (in '98 or '99) becuase they found plans for Saddam's bid to make nuclear weapons and they wouldn't leave without them. They were held for almost a week (I think, this is from memory).

oh u havn't watched it yet?

watch it please. I know where you stand on the war in Iraq and I want to hear your arguements.

Originally Posted by viet_jon

oh u havn't watched it yet?

watch it please. I know where you stand on the war in Iraq and I want to hear your arguements.

Okay, since you seem so set on it, and I like to learn, I'll watch it. I'm going out for a couple of hours, but I'll watch it when I get back.

Originally Posted by DOMS

Okay, since you seem so set on it, and I like to learn, I'll watch it. I'm going out for a couple of hours, but I'll watch it when I get back.

You will watch it now and you will like it.


Wait, I know DOMS plan. Go out, get drunk, drive home , then watch it.

Sounds good!

Originally Posted by AKIRA

Wait, I know DOMS plan. Go out, get drunk, drive home , then watch it.

Originally Posted by viet_jon

true in a sense.

but if think about it, and put yourself in their seat. What are those top politicians thinking about when they do what they do? Do they really care and worry about the future of America? MY guess would be NO. They do what they do for their own interest, not in the interest of the average American.

THat is a pretty cynical outlook on life and the country you live in. The decisions made are for the best of the country and the people living here. I don't think you guys understand how many people are watching over the Presidents (all of them) shoulder when he is making these decisions. One little slip up would imidiatly be expoited by the oposite party. So to all the tin-hat wearing pshychos out there, get a life.

Okay, I made it through 14 minutes and 40 seconds.

It's nothing more than another propoganda movie. A large part of what's said, outside of basic dates and old clips, is opinion. I've yet to see any substantive sources. Even some of those opinions go counter to facts. At one point, some guy is saying that Japan wanted to surrender, but Eisenhower wouldn't let them. The truth of it was that the Japanese people followed what their leaders said. The Emporer wanted to surrender, but the Japanese military (who were actually running the show) wouldn't have it. They wanted to fight on. So the Japanese people would fight on because they were told to.

They also try to use scripting and editing to give false impressions. For example, they talk about the war being over, yet they cut to a picture of a nuke going off and start to go over the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombing. Intimating that the bombings were after the war was over.

All in all, it's just another propoganda movie. There are a number of reasons that the US goes to war (and not all of them are good), but the movie doesn't go over them with anything near a balanced approach.

Originally Posted by ABCs

THat is a pretty cynical outlook on life and the country you live in.

I believe that he was born in Vietnam and lives in Canada.

Originally Posted by DOMS

I believe that he was born in Vietnam and lives in Canada.

In that case... stay there.

Originally Posted by DOMS

Okay, I made it through 14 minutes and 40 seconds.

It's nothing more than another propoganda movie. A large part of what's said, outside of basic dates and old clips, is opinion. I've yet to see any substantive sources. Even some of those opinions go counter to facts. At one point, some guy is saying that Japan wanted to surrender, but Eisenhower wouldn't let them. The truth of it was that the Japanese people followed what their leaders said. The Emporer wanted to surrender, but the Japanese military (who were actually running the show) wouldn't have it. They wanted to fight on. So the Japanese people would fight on because they were told to.

They also try to use scripting and editing to give false impressions. For example, they talk about the war being over, yet they cut to a picture of a nuke going off and start to go over the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombing. Intimating that the bombings were after the war was over.

All in all, it's just another propoganda movie. There are a number of reasons that the US goes to war (and not all of them are good), but the movie doesn't go over them with anything near a balanced approach.

at one point in the docu., it says that the US goes to war because of each Politicians personal interest $$$, not for the interest of America as a whole, which is quite disturbing.

I'm mainly skeptical of this documentary cuz it's produced by Sony, a japanese company. I can't see this documentary putting down the Japanese.
But this isn't what interested me.


It's the whole thing on the Military Industrial Complex that got me. Damn, too bad you didn't get there. I wish I could outline it's points here, but I don't know enough about how the US is governed to speak of it.

Originally Posted by viet_jon

I'm mainly skeptical of this documentary cuz it's produced by Sony, a japanese company. I can't see this documentary putting down the Japanese.
But this isn't what interested me.

Yeah, I noticed that Sony distributed the film, but that's all. Someone else came up with the idea. All they did was fork over a few bucks to get it shipped out. I don't think that there's anything insidious about it.

Originally Posted by viet_jon

It's the whole thing on the Military Industrial Complex that got me. Damn, too bad you didn't get there. I wish I could outline it's points here, but I don't know enough about how the US is governed to speak of it.

I doubt that they produced anything that I haven't already learned else where. I'm betting their major point is that the military equipment producing companies made an effort to go to war so that they could profit from it. Which I do believe happens; Just like any other special interest group. While they do lobby among the politicians for war, they simply don't have the pull to make it happen. At least not in this day and age. Now the Vietnam era is a different story.

Originally Posted by viet_jon

at one point in the docu., it says that the US goes to war because of each Politicians personal interest $$$, not for the interest of America as a whole, which is quite disturbing.

I think you added this after I replied. Read my previous post.

Originally Posted by DOMS

I doubt that they produced anything that I haven't already learned else where. I'm betting their major point is that the military equipment producing companies made an effort to go to war so that they could profit from it. Which I do believe happens; Just like any other special interest group. While they do lobby among the politicians for war, they simply don't have the pull to make it happen. At least not in this day and age. Now the Vietnam era is a different story.

Nice. This is exactly why I wanted your opinion on it. You seam to know a little about everything. Thought so you know something about this.

I dunno.........but how it was outlined in the docu, it seams the companies do have the pull to make it happen.

excerpts from the docu

ex1. The B-52 bomber has a peice of it made in every state, to make sure that if you ever try to phase out that project, you will get howls and howls among the most liberal members of congress.

The military industrial complex is 3 links. Military, Industry, and Congress. To a congressman, losing a 100 jobs in his district, could mean 500 votes. It's not just the workers, it's their spouses, their children. It's the representative's duty to bring home the bacon.

ex. 2

all of the top ten contracted companies had formal US officials that worked in the Pentagon and other parts of the US government, working as their board of directors or one of the top executives, it's known as a revolving door, and people cash in all the time. Government officials go to work for companies, and they make triple quadruple 10x of what they use to make.

There's too close a relationship. I hate to use the word corruption, but it borders on it the behaviour of some of these individuals both in the industries and the pentagon. The number one recipient of contracts was Vice President's Cheney's former company Haliburton and it's subsidiary KBR.

hmmm.....maybe the Politicians are cashing in on war..???

there are lots of other points also, too much to type it all out.

Originally Posted by ABCs

THat is a pretty cynical outlook on life and the country you live in. The decisions made are for the best of the country and the people living here. I don't think you guys understand how many people are watching over the Presidents (all of them) shoulder when he is making these decisions. One little slip up would imidiatly be expoited by the oposite party. So to all the tin-hat wearing pshychos out there, get a life.

ROFL, you call someone who believes that politicians are corrupt {which is generally accepted by the majority of the population} a tin-hat wearing psycho. It is you that are the psycho.

Originally Posted by viet_jon

Nice. This is exactly why I wanted your opinion on it. You seam to know a little about everything. Thought so you know something about this.

That's the problem with so-called documentaries about the wrong-doings of others. They can't just keep it to the facts. They can't just paint a picture of someone, or some group, that's done something wrong; They absolutely must completely, and utterly, vilify the person or group in question.

Once you do that, once you taint your presentation with unfounded conspiracies, or you try to lay the blame on that person for something they didn't do, the rest of your work means nothing because you don't trust them.

Which is what that movie did.

Oh, and thank you for the compliment.

Originally Posted by AKIRA

You will watch it now and you will like it.


Wait, I know DOMS plan. Go out, get drunk, drive home , then watch it.

Sounds good!

That's actually my plan, or was.

I watched it and I liked it. Same as everything else though. America wants to be the world power and have an economic interest in everything. "The war on freedom" my ass. We are already free, invading Iraq hasn't made me any more free then I already was in 2002.

Originally Posted by fletcher6490

That's actually my plan, or was.

I watched it and I liked it. Same as everything else though. America wants to be the world power and have an economic interest in everything. "The war on freedom" my ass. We are already free, invading Iraq hasn't made me any more free then I already was in 2002.

Freedom isn't free, it cost folks like you and me. {It doesn't cost rich people though}

Originally Posted by DOMS

That's the problem with so-called documentaries about the wrong-doings of others. They can't just keep it to the facts. They can't just paint a picture of someone, or some group, that's done something wrong; They absolutely must completely, and utterly, vilify the person or group in question.

Once you do that, once you taint your presentation with unfounded conspiracies, or you try to lay the blame on that person for something they didn't do, the rest of your work means nothing because you don't trust them.

Which is what that movie did.

How can you trust someone who you believed commited these atrocities?