Originally Posted by DOMS

Touché!

Originally Posted by goandykid

GS 2001. I love it 11 months out of the year, but come snowtime I'm fucked.

Originally Posted by DOMS

For over half a year, when I lived in Vegas, I would hydroplane every day. Now I can handle a spin better than most drives.

Hell, I like to drive my car down some street with it diagonal to the road.

Originally Posted by goandykid

haha nice. You had the eclipse in Vegas?

Originally Posted by DOMS

No, I had a Mustang.

There was a street in Henderson where some moron would run their water every day at 4:30. I'd hit that and hydroplane (tapping the brakes helped) on it every day. The first time was on accident. So was the second time, but I got out of the spin so quick that I found it to be fun. So I'd do it every day on the way home from work.

Originally Posted by goandykid

Clemson? That you?

I aksed DOMS about his religious preference for the reasons stated about, don't be an idiot. I already said it wasn't on-topic, Einstein.

Practically the entire EU has acknowledged global warming, it's a matter of time till we do. And calling me bias makes "the pot calling the kettle black" the understatement of the year.


Wanna see my favorite part?

"The elitist geniuses like Hillary and Pelosi can spend the money of those who earn it much better than the individuals and the corporations themselves. Individuals in the government are the only individuals who can make right decisions, because they are not selfish, unlike those who work for oil companies and white people"

So it's Hillary and Pelosi who know better than the American public? Is that why 60% of all Americans want to be out of Iraq, but Bush is keeping us in there? Or why the vast majority of teachers say the "No Child Left Behind Act" is terrible, but Bush considers it completely necessary?

Please sir, but unless I heard otherwise, the entire reason Hillary and Pelosi were put into office, is because Bush ISNT following what the American public wants.

Originally Posted by NeilPearson

You are missing the overall picture though. Sure you can cripple a technology for a while. They did it to solar. For years it was dead but something interesting happened during those years. Semi-conductor technology greatly advanced. Nanotechnology is also starting. Carbon nano-tubes were developed. Different materials capable of absorbing light were developed for other applications. You might kill an application for a while but the enabling technologies still advance. 25 years ago, you would have needed politcal tax credits and other things to force the issue because it wasn't the natural time for it yet. The underlying ideas were sound but it needed many more years of enabling technologies to be developed to truly bring down the price and make it competitive.

Remember this chart I posted:

http://www.earth-policy.org/Indicato...tor12_data.htm

Solar energy is on an exponential curve just like computer processing is and all other technology. It just hasn't hit the knee of the curve yet so it seems insignificant. That is the nature of exponential technology. It kind of sneaks up on you when you didn't think it was a big deal. Solar production has been increasing by around 35% a year. And that is like compound interest. The Mega watts generated from solar took from 1970 to 1998 to get from 0 to 153. Then in only 2 years it was at 288. Then another doubling 2 years later. It still isn't a lot but if you understand exponential growth, you can see how this could easily overtake fossil fuels.

You can't say advances in alternate energy are out of sync with other advancements. Technology that is developed for other things have a direct overlap. You can't separate it. Nano-tubes weren't created for solar cells but they hold the promise for making them 10 times more efficient.

The government can end government research into these things which it did in the 70s.... it hasn't stopped the natural progress into enabling technologies though. And now it is starting to make sense for private companies to take these enabling technologies and bring out better solar. Once it is out of government hands and into the private sector, it can't be stopped.

Computers, cell phone communication, LCD displays, MP3s, CDs, DVD, blueray, blue tooth... every single thing we use daily as high tech, came from private develop not the government. Some enabling technologies were created from government research but ultimately (and usually years later after costs come down) it is the private sector that brings us these technologies. It is going to be no different with alternate energy.

Originally Posted by brogers

#1, it doesn't matter what the EU acknowledges, it matters what is REAL. Several centuries ago, nearly everyone acknowledged that the Earth was flat and the Sun revolved around the earth. Consensus != Truth, sorry.

I forgot the EU had no scientists or governmental bodies in it. Apologies.
#2 I didn't say a word about George Bush, but nutjobs always want to bring him in. I repsonded w/ GWB as a response to Hillary. (And no, I dont like her either)Both have commented on global warming and have agendas. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out, or how limiting globalwarming-causing pollution would hurt GWB's big business style of govt.

#3 I mentioned Hillary because she's using Global Warming to advance the big-government agenda. Either a typo, or youre wrong. She's against GWB's style of big-business, as is her party. She stated she wants to seize a private company's profits and let the government spend it because of global warming. You're being played by the government for them to grab more power, open your eyes, it isn't any different than the government using "security" to push itself into our lives. It just hasn't matured as much yet (thankfully).

#4 I never said I wasn't biased, your implication was that I was the only biased person in this thread, it is quite clear from reading it. I'm biased because I like cars, electricity, traveling at speeds faster than walking, plastics, and other things that my beloved polluting products make possible. Admission of guilt?

Originally Posted by goandykid

Originally Posted by DOMS

Sorry man, but...

Originally Posted by goandykid

Well correct me then. As I see it, brogers point of her taxing Exxon is an act of anti-big business, not the other way around...

Originally Posted by DOMS

Both parties back big business. Who do you think are the biggest contributors come election time? That's the way the political system works in this country.

Do you really think that the DMCA (that Clinton passed) was meant to help the little guy?

Originally Posted by DOMS

Sorry man, but...

Originally Posted by brogers

His reading comprehension is terrible.. I'm done trying to make any point to him. I said Hillary is pushing a big-government agenda and he somehows confuses that with big business?

I could have a more intelligent discussion with my cousin, a 4th grader.

Originally Posted by goandykid

Democrats back big business as a larger tax benefactor. Republicans sell their rish souls and give big business tax breaks. Hence the Exxon ordeal.

Originally Posted by brogers

His reading comprehension is terrible.. I'm done trying to make any point to him. I said Hillary is pushing a big-government agenda and he somehows confuses that with big business?

Originally Posted by BoneCrusher

You make my point for me. Most of those technologies you mentioned did not exist in the 70's. My cell phone has more power than the computers used to send our boy Buss Aldren to the moon. How much of that then non-existent technology is used for things related to AFS?

Brother I'm not disputing your assertion of collateral technological growth cycles or that the willingness of the academic mind to deploy those developments is there. It's the politically powers that be who are owned by the giants of industry that ALWAYS lead the way who are not hearing you, or funding the desires of academia.

I do not agree with you though that the growth of the AFS research is going to explode over the next 20 years because of collateral technological advancements. Look at the tax imposed on bio-diesel ... it makes the production and sales of the product a not for profit endeavor so it's not getting done. More money gets made off of bio-diesel scams than the sale of the product itself. Reduce the tax .. an excessive average of $1.20 per gallon ... to something like $.40 a gallon and we'd all be driving diesel motor powered hummers fueled by a non diesel product. Big oil business doesn't want that so it ain't happinin'.

I'm not saying they are ... it's just a reality. Passive solar water heaters were alive and well in the 70's. No major advances were needed to use the damn things they worked great, had a long service life and were free of anything that required power to function.

Using a solar water heating system could have offered a lowered energy consumption at the national level and ... after the initial 24 months needed to recoup the investment ... provided free hot water at the individual level, but that would have killed natural gas sales. How many solar water system do you know of on the homes of your community? What technologies have been used to improve their efficiency? Zilch ... buttkiss, nada. I'm not saying anything here. I'm just viewing our collective history together as a culture, recounting what has driven it and what controls it as a whole.

Do I want what you say to be the gospel? You have no idea how bad I want that. Seriously though ... how can it become a reality? Where is the financial incentive for the oil barons? Find that incentive and you will see miracles happen overnight.

Originally Posted by goandykid

The copyright act you keep bringing up was a long overdue law, preventing shit like kazaa and limewire from stealing music legally.(again, correct me where I'm wrong, this is off memory) It was more of face law than anything else, not often enforced, and targeting everyone, INCLUDING, big business. It doesnt differ much from the way patents are written.

Originally Posted by DOMS

There were already laws to cover that.

A "face law"? You have no damn idea what you're talking about and how the DMCA has been used.

I get the feeling that you're just trying to cover for your political party.

Originally Posted by kbm8795

Oh, I think Americans understand that the one thing conservatives hate the most is the idea of spending American tax money on Americans. . .in America.


Your tax money is safe. . .in Iraq.