Libby is Guilty - Fall Guy

Big Smoothy · 03-07-2007, 05:12 AM

I honestly have become so disillusioned about the U.S. government that I thought Libby would skate.

He's definitely the "Fall Guy" as Rove and Cheney are safe and sound.

Let's remember what this case was about:

Ruining a CIA operatives career because her husband wrote an article for the New York Times.

BoneCrusher · 03-07-2007, 06:14 AM

AND she didn't play nice with her truthful reporting on the bullshit claims made by BushCo of yellow-cake uranium or the aluminum rods that Sodomy was supposed to be buying off the black market. At that time BushCo was posturing up for their invasion of Iraq and needed her to play their game ... she refused and was outted.

brogers · 03-07-2007, 06:54 AM

"Ruining a CIA operatives career because her husband wrote an article for the New York Times"

But it's ok to jail a man for a procedural crime, ruining his life and his career?

He wasn't convicted of leaking anything, it was a stupid procedural crime so the prosecuter can claim he "got someone." He didn't give the right date to FBI about an event that happened, what, over a year before he was questioned?

BigDyl · 03-07-2007, 08:25 AM

No suprise here.

BigDyl · 03-07-2007, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brogers

"Ruining a CIA operatives career because her husband wrote an article for the New York Times"

But it's ok to jail a man for a procedural crime, ruining his life and his career?

He wasn't convicted of leaking anything, it was a stupid procedural crime so the prosecuter can claim he "got someone." He didn't give the right date to FBI about an event that happened, what, over a year before he was questioned?

The second plame argued the fact that Iraq had WMD's she was outed. Case closed.

Doublebase · 03-07-2007, 09:29 AM

THey finally got back to covering this case.

Big Smoothy · 03-07-2007, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brogers

"Ruining a CIA operatives career because her husband wrote an article for the New York Times"

But it's ok to jail a man for a procedural crime, ruining his life and his career?

He wasn't convicted of leaking anything, it was a stupid procedural crime so the prosecuter can claim he "got someone."

You've lost the plot my friend.

This case is NOT about the leak!

ALBOB · 03-07-2007, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigDyl

The second plame argued the fact that Iraq had WMD's she was outed. Case closed.

She was "outed" from WHAT? She wasn't a covert agent. She was a stupid desk jockey. There was nothing to "out".

And just exactly WHO "outed" her? It wasn't Libby. Here's a hint; look up the name Armatage.

brogers · 03-07-2007, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Smoothy

You've lost the plot my friend.

This case is NOT about the leak!

No shit, Sherlock.

So why would you want him to go to prison?

BoneCrusher · 03-07-2007, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALBOB

She was "outed" from WHAT? She wasn't a covert agent. She was a stupid desk jockey. There was nothing to "out".

And just exactly WHO "outed" her? It wasn't Libby. Here's a hint; look up the name Armatage.

As an energy analyst Plame was reporting back to the US on foreign energy issues as they developed ... she was part of our eyes and ears. She was not a "desk jockey". Down playing her work as an infiltrator for the CIA to make Libby look better doesn't wash. She WAS outted because her politics did not include lying about the WMD's that didn't exist. As a "desk jockey" she was asked to report on that infamous yellow-caked uranium Sodomy was trying to procure, and to asses the aluminum rods he was trying to smuggle in. Part of her job for the US was as a weapons inspector, and she did her job. She developed relationships with people that could provide inside information about foreign nuclear weapons strategies and used those relationships to our benefit.

Armatage admitted he was the source of the leak to Novac. No-one is claiming that Libby was the main player, but to try and say he is just some guy with a bad memory or that he was not guilty is hogwash. He was asked under oath about the leak and lied. He chose to be the fall guy and is now a convicted felon for his efforts. Ollie North did it, so did Gordon Liddy although both North and Liddy did much more for their leaders than Libby did. Libby didn't start the leak but he DID try to cover up his role.

Background on being a NOC field asset. This is a person who doesn't sign on with the federal agency he/she works for in the traditional way but instead gets recruited and managed by an agency guy. In other words, you do not take the traditional route and get the black passport ... no diplomatic immunity, no protections that go with a formal status ... but your ass is still in harm's way as you infiltrate and collect data in the area you are requested to work. If you get caught you get executed. Plame did that for 20 years. She has earned the respect of every American.

Desk jockey ...

... she is an unsung heroine.

BigDyl · 03-07-2007, 01:46 PM

Novak and Cheney are scum.

ALBOB · 03-07-2007, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoneCrusher

As an energy analyst Plame was reporting back to the US on foreign energy issues as they developed ... she was part of our eyes and ears. She was not a "desk jockey". Down playing her work as an infiltrator for the CIA to make Libby look better doesn't wash. She WAS outted because her politics did not include lying about the WMD's that didn't exist. As a "desk jockey" she was asked to report on that infamous yellow-caked uranium Sodomy was trying to procure, and to asses the aluminum rods he was trying to smuggle in. Part of her job for the US was as a weapons inspector, and she did her job. She developed relationships with people that could provide inside information about foreign nuclear weapons strategies and used those relationships to our benefit.

Armatage admitted he was the source of the leak to Novac. No-one is claiming that Libby was the main player, but to try and say he is just some guy with a bad memory or that he was not guilty is hogwash. He was asked under oath about the leak and lied. He chose to be the fall guy and is now a convicted felon for his efforts. Ollie North did it, so did Gordon Liddy although both North and Liddy did much more for their leaders than Libby did. Libby didn't start the leak but he DID try to cover up his role.

Background on being a NOC field asset. This is a person who doesn't sign on with the federal agency he/she works for in the traditional way but instead gets recruited and managed by an agency guy. In other words, you do not take the traditional route and get the black passport ... no diplomatic immunity, no protections that go with a formal status ... but your ass is still in harm's way as you infiltrate and collect data in the area you are requested to work. If you get caught you get executed. Plame did that for 20 years. She has earned the respect of every American.

Desk jockey ...

... she is an unsung heroine.

http://www.nationalreview.com/mccart...0507180801.asp

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valerie_Plame

Okay genius, let's say she was a real, honest to God spook. That means whoever outed here committed a felony. Who's been charged with that crime? Armitage already admitted he's the one who dropped her name. Why hasn't he been indicted yet?

You gotta tell me, when you typed "unsung heroine", did you really keep a straight face?

bigss75 · 03-07-2007, 02:51 PM

Hasn't their been no proof that anyone told Wilson to even go to Niger, the reason this whole thing started. It sounds like this was a nice little way for the Wilsons to get a book deal and score some cash.

Anyway, the longest Libby will be in jail is 684 days if that, Bush will pardon him. I can't wait for the liberal crying when that happens.

**dg806** · 03-07-2007, 03:02 PM

The more i read, the faker she gets. She was a wannbe.....her whole life. And stupid.

**dg806** · 03-07-2007, 03:04 PM

Look at all the criminals Clinton pardoned at the last minute before he left office. Nothing unusual. Friends helping friends.

BigDyl · 03-07-2007, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dg806

Look at all the criminals Clinton pardoned at the last minute before he left office. Nothing unusual. Friends helping friends.

What does that have to do with this?

ALBOB · 03-07-2007, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigDyl

What does that have to do with this?

It's gonna have EVERYTHING to do with this if Bush pardons Libby and all the Liberals come out of the woodwork whining about it. They didn't have a problem with Clinton pardoning drug smugglers and extortionists, but they're gonna cry their damn heads off if some schmuck who did less than Clinton himself gets a pardon from Bush.

**dg806** · 03-07-2007, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigDyl

What does that have to do with this?

Read post #13 and 17

Big Smoothy · 03-08-2007, 04:18 AM

Interesting responses:

1. This case is not about Liberals and Conservatives.

2. It's not about politics.

3. It IS about whether he's guilty of 4 of the five counts.

Why is politics even being discsussed, let alone Liberalism and Conservatism.

The Bush administration is NOT convservative. The Bush Administration is Neo-Liberal.

BoneCrusher · 03-08-2007, 04:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALBOB

http://www.nationalreview.com/mccart...0507180801.asp

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valerie_Plame

Okay genius, let's say she was a real, honest to God spook. That means whoever outed here committed a felony. Who's been charged with that crime? Armitage already admitted he's the one who dropped her name. Why hasn't he been indicted yet?

You gotta tell me, when you typed "unsung heroine", did you really keep a straight face?

Good question ... why not? He should be. And yes anyone who risks their life for our country the way she did earns my respect. I kept a straight face.

BoneCrusher · 03-08-2007, 05:21 AM

This whole concept of throwing Plame under the bus to downplay Libby's problems is shit politics in action. This is the same old partisan political bullshit that has always been used to evade the real issues. All republicans and closet republicans alike will now throw around how Libby is a victim of the democrats, as they slaughter Plame with no regard to her service.

Libby was found guilty ... was that rigged somehow?

Read the actual indictment ... if you can. Be thorough and absorb all his attempts to pull the "to the best of my recollection I don't recall" bullshit. He knew he was lying when the words came out of his face. He did it to protect the people he served under. After all is said and done the man has earned a pardon for his life of service to his country. Hopefully he'll get one ...

**dg806** · 03-08-2007, 07:27 AM

Does Jim McDougal and Susan McDougal, White House counsel Webster Hubbell and Arkansas Governor Jim Guy Tucker and Vince Foster ring a bell? They all helped the Clinton's cover up their part in the Whitewater scandel. Nothing different that what has happend here. And Clinton pardoned all four right before he left office. Foster had already been killed. (It wasn't a suicide)

ALBOB · 03-08-2007, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoneCrusher

Good question ... why not? He should be. And yes anyone who risks their life for our country the way she did earns my respect. I kept a straight face.

WRONG! Armitage hasn't been indicted because no crime was committed. She was NOT a covert agent therefore she could NOT have been outed. You can say otherwise as many times as you want, but that still doesn't make it true.

Risked her life??? Now you're really gone round the bend. Tell us please, exactly how did she ever risk her life?

Big Smoothy · 03-08-2007, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dg806

Does Jim McDougal and Susan McDougal, White House counsel Webster Hubbell and Arkansas Governor Jim Guy Tucker and Vince Foster ring a bell? They all helped the Clinton's cover up their part in the Whitewater scandel. Nothing different that what has happend here. And Clinton pardoned all four right before he left office. Foster had already been killed. (It wasn't a suicide)

You're free to have your opinion, DG.

But because you note this, you've proven to us that you can't be objective.

Your political views are clouding your mental compartmentalization abilities.

Focus on THIS case.

Thanks,

bigss75 · 03-08-2007, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Smoothy

You're free to have your opinion, DG.
But because you note this, you've proven to us that you can't be objective.
Your political views are clouding your mental compartmentalization abilities.
Focus on THIS case.
Thanks,

Thats not so, he is showing previous legal issues where pardon were used to find out whether or not Libby should be used.

**dg806** · 03-08-2007, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigss75

Thats not so, he is showing previous legal issues where pardon were used to find out whether or not Libby should be used.

Exactly. You didn't hear uproars about that, but I guarantee If Libby is pardoned, there will be. All I'm saying is, let him be pardoned and be done with it.

Decker · 03-08-2007, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dg806

Does Jim McDougal and Susan McDougal, White House counsel Webster Hubbell and Arkansas Governor Jim Guy Tucker and Vince Foster ring a bell? They all helped the Clinton's cover up their part in the Whitewater scandel. Nothing different that what has happend here. And Clinton pardoned all four right before he left office. Foster had already been killed. (It wasn't a suicide)

What does any of this have to do with Libby's felony convictions?

ALBOB · 03-08-2007, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Decker

What does any of this have to do with Libby's felony convictions?

Nothing. But it has everything to do with is impending pardon.

Decker · 03-08-2007, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALBOB

WRONG! Armitage hasn't been indicted because no crime was committed. She was NOT a covert agent therefore she could NOT have been outed. You can say otherwise as many times as you want, but that still doesn't make it true.

Risked her life??? Now you're really gone round the bend. Tell us please, exactly how did she ever risk her life?

I agree with you ALBOB. Bush declassified her status.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/02/...eak/index.html

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/04/...eak/index.html

So when Cheney and Libby went on their smear parade to punish Wilson by exposing his wife's alter ego--agent tracking WMDs in Iran--it was all legal.

However, conspiracy to violate the Espionage Act is another matter.

Look, what Bush did is treasonous: Declassifying the NOC status of an agent familiar with Iranian WMDs during a time of war where WMDs are central to the whole notion of pre-emptive war.

Decker · 03-08-2007, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALBOB

Nothing. But it has everything to do with is impending pardon.

That's the thing about pardons...only criminals are pardoned.

Why I remember when Clinton issued his pardons at the conclusion of his second term, the rightwing was outraged that the president was pardoning..gasp...criminals!

Libby is crook that helped undermine the security of this country. He lied and now he'll pay for his crimes.

If Bush doesn't pardon his partner in crime, I'd be very surprised.

...After all, it runs in the family:

03-07-2007, 03:02 PM	#14
dg806 Guardian of The Homeland Super Moderator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Charlotte NC Posts: 18,197	The more i read, the faker she gets. She was a wannbe.....her whole life. And stupid. 1-Andro Rx Pro-hormone

03-07-2007, 03:04 PM	#15
dg806 Guardian of The Homeland Super Moderator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Charlotte NC Posts: 18,197	Look at all the criminals Clinton pardoned at the last minute before he left office. Nothing unusual. Friends helping friends. 1-Andro Rx Pro-hormone

03-08-2007, 07:27 AM	#22
dg806 Guardian of The Homeland Super Moderator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Charlotte NC Posts: 18,197	Does Jim McDougal and Susan McDougal, White House counsel Webster Hubbell and Arkansas Governor Jim Guy Tucker and Vince Foster ring a bell? They all helped the Clinton's cover up their part in the Whitewater scandel. Nothing different that what has happend here. And Clinton pardoned all four right before he left office. Foster had already been killed. (It wasn't a suicide) 1-Andro Rx Pro-hormone

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03-07-2007, 05:12 AM	#1
Big Smoothy Windy City Elite Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Chicago Posts: 3,267	Libby is Guilty - Fall Guy I honestly have become so disillusioned about the U.S. government that I thought Libby would skate. He's definitely the "Fall Guy" as Rove and Cheney are safe and sound. Let's remember what this case was about: Ruining a CIA operatives career because her husband wrote an article for the New York Times.

03-07-2007, 06:14 AM	#2
BoneCrusher Lift or Die Elite Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Austin Texas Posts: 8,589	AND she didn't play nice with her truthful reporting on the bullshit claims made by BushCo of yellow-cake uranium or the aluminum rods that Sodomy was supposed to be buying off the black market. At that time BushCo was posturing up for their invasion of Iraq and needed her to play their game ... she refused and was outted.

03-07-2007, 06:54 AM	#3
brogers Registered User Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 1,502	"Ruining a CIA operatives career because her husband wrote an article for the New York Times" But it's ok to jail a man for a procedural crime, ruining his life and his career? He wasn't convicted of leaking anything, it was a stupid procedural crime so the prosecuter can claim he "got someone." He didn't give the right date to FBI about an event that happened, what, over a year before he was questioned?

03-07-2007, 09:29 AM	#6
Doublebase Lightweight, Ya Buddy! Elite Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Philly Posts: 7,325	THey finally got back to covering this case.

03-07-2007, 02:51 PM	#13
bigss75 Let Me See Yo Grill Elite Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Colorado Posts: 5,125	Hasn't their been no proof that anyone told Wilson to even go to Niger, the reason this whole thing started. It sounds like this was a nice little way for the Wilsons to get a book deal and score some cash. Anyway, the longest Libby will be in jail is 684 days if that, Bush will pardon him. I can't wait for the liberal crying when that happens.

03-08-2007, 04:18 AM	#19
Big Smoothy Windy City Elite Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Chicago Posts: 3,267	Interesting responses: 1. This case is not about Liberals and Conservatives. 2. It's not about politics. 3. It IS about whether he's guilty of 4 of the five counts. Why is politics even being discsussed, let alone Liberalism and Conservatism. The Bush administration is NOT convservative. The Bush Administration is Neo-Liberal.

03-08-2007, 05:21 AM	#21
BoneCrusher Lift or Die Elite Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Austin Texas Posts: 8,589	This whole concept of throwing Plame under the bus to downplay Libby's problems is shit politics in action. This is the same old partisan political bullshit that has always been used to evade the real issues. All republicans and closet republicans alike will now throw around how Libby is a victim of the democrats, as they slaughter Plame with no regard to her service. Libby was found guilty ... was that rigged somehow? Read the actual indictment ... if you can. Be thorough and absorb all his attempts to pull the "to the best of my recollection I don't recall" bullshit. He knew he was lying when the words came out of his face. He did it to protect the people he served under. After all is said and done the man has earned a pardon for his life of service to his country. Hopefully he'll get one ...