The other side of being an illegal.....

**min0 lee** · 11-06-2007, 11:49 AM

I do feel bad for this guy, yes he did come here illegaly..but he did work to earn his money and not sell drugs.
His employer is also at blame.

I know that not all of the Irish, Italians and Russians came here legally.....let's be honest.

Nine years saving

17:20 ET, Tue 23 Oct 2007
By Michael Christie
STUART, Florida (Reuters) - For nine years Pedro Zapeta did nothing but work and save.
The illegal immigrant from Guatemala bought no baubles for girlfriends, never traded in his bicycle for a car, never drank a beer in a bar and ate only at the Florida restaurants where he worked as a dish washer for $5.50 to $7.50 an hour.
Then two years ago, with $59,000 collected in a black sports bag that had become his bank and another $3,000 stuffed in his pocket, Zapeta decided he had enough to return to his poor Mayan mountain village and buy a piece of earth on which to raise a family and build a home.
That's when disaster struck.
As the 39-year-old with stumbling Spanish and no English at all walked through a security checkpoint at Fort Lauderdale-Hollywood International airport on September 18, 2005, a one-way ticket to Guatemala City in one hand and black bag in the other, he was stopped.
The $59,000 in savings, wrapped in rubber bands and stuffed in envelopes, was confiscated because he had failed to fill in a form saying he was taking more than $10,000 out of the country. He was only allowed to keep the $3,000 in his pocket.
Zapeta, whose mother tongue is Quiche and who hails from the chilly highlands of Totonicapan in west central Guatemala, has spent two years fighting to get his money back, but he doesn't have much time left. He has to leave the United States by January 24, 2008, under a voluntary deportation order.
"How is it possible that they want to take so much from me? It's not possible, it's not fair," Zapeta told Reuters.
Zapeta's Quixotic struggle against the U.S. government has been embraced by both sides of the passionate U.S. debate on illegal immigration.
Some believe he deserved to have everything confiscated because he entered the country illegally and never filed a tax return. Furthermore, the employers who hired him should be fined and jailed, critics write in blogs and opinion pieces.
Others feel outraged that a man personifying the American ideals of hard work and thrift at a time when many U.S. citizens are buried in debt should be so heavily penalized for what appears to have been an honest mistake.
"Anyone who can amass $62,000 in nine years should be forced to stay here and teach the rest of us how to do it," Miami Herald columnist Ana Menendez wrote recently.

NO IDEA
Zapeta says he had no idea he needed to declare the money. It was after all the first time he had seen the inside of an airport -- he entered the United States in June 1997 across the desert dividing Mexico from Texas.
U.S. prosecutors, who could not be reached for comment on the case, at first questioned whether the money was the fruit of drug-trafficking, rather than of honest labor, but they soon dropped those suspicions. Zapeta has payslips showing some of his employers deducted social security and public health insurance, or Medicare, contributions.
In a ruling early this year, United States District Judge James Cohn ruled that Zapeta could keep $10,000 -- the amount he would have been allowed to carry with him -- but had to forfeit $49,000 to the U.S. government.
Zapeta says that's not acceptable and his lawyer, Robert Gershman of West Palm Beach, has lodged an appeal with the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals in Atlanta.
"It wasn't fair, it wasn't reasonable, it wasn't proportional," said Gershman, who is not charging legal fees.
Gershman also received $10,000 in donations for Zapeta but says the tax authorities have told him they might want a piece of that, too. Zapeta is grateful for the donations. Nevertheless, he says he would prefer to have the money he actually earned.
"I don't understand why they are pursuing justice with such determination when all I did was make a mistake," Zapeta said.
"I need this money. I have no money in my country, I have nothing. Let them take the taxes (I owe) but don't take everything."
Marisol Zequeira, Zapeta's immigration lawyer, said those who believed he had only managed to save so much money because he failed to pay income taxes were probably wrong. He most likely paid everything he owed for his income level through automatic deductions from his pay checks, she said.
"But he lived in a way that most of us would not even conceive of," Zequeira said.
"He deprived himself of just about everything from medical attention to basic recreational things like movies. He doesn't even own a car. This man worked all his life, for nine or 10 years all he did was work and go to church."
Zequeira said she found it hard to believe that the authorities would pursue a U.S. citizen with equal fervor.
"If he had to pay taxes, he should have paid taxes, if he has to pay a fine because he made this mistake then he should pay the fine. But I think what's egregious is that we're taking away all his money and I don't think we would do that to anybody who wasn't an illegal immigrant," she said.
"We wouldn't feel that we had the right to do that."

**min0 lee** · 11-06-2007, 11:56 AM

Yes, he came here illegally, didn't support the economy by spending it here and now he's suing the USA..I know.

But to take all of that hard earned money is fucked up.

Now if I knew he had that money I would have mugged him and reinvest it all on American soil.....sex ,drugs, expensive booze and a pimping car!

**BoneCrusher** · 11-06-2007, 12:06 PM

Why should we feel sorry for him? On the letter of the law and the US Constitution I'll fight for his rights, but on moral and ethical issues he's got nothing to stand on at all. That he sneaked in here and earned money gives him no moral right to demand shit. He's lucky he isn't in jail for tax fraud after not filing his taxes.

**min0 lee** · 11-06-2007, 12:09 PM

I know, but I have met a few decent illegals....and to be frank I envy their drive to live the American dream...
Look at our youth today....I have to leave now....the tears rolling down...
just kidding, I need to drop off the kids at the pool.

**DOMS** · 11-06-2007, 12:09 PM

Originally Posted by BoneCrusher

Why should we feel sorry for him? On the letter of the law and the US Constitution I'll fight for his rights, but on moral and ethical issues he's got nothing to stand on at all. That he sneaked in here and earned money gives him no moral right to demand shit. He's lucky he isn't in jail for tax fraud after not filing his taxes.

**AKIRA** · 11-06-2007, 12:24 PM

Stuart, FL?! Thats my home town! Now you know why I am in Gainesville.

**KelJu** · 11-06-2007, 12:44 PM

Fuck him!

**min0 lee** · 11-06-2007, 01:42 PM

Originally Posted by KelJu

Fuck him!

That's gay!

**maniclion** · 11-06-2007, 01:42 PM

Poor guy, I say let him have his money. At least he's not staying and at least he is going back to his country to try to add to it's wealth. Most of these types stay in America and deprive there countries of hardworking people like him. If more of them would come and then leave hopefully they could be like planting little seedlings around the world to help bloom poorer nations economies...

**min0 lee** · 11-06-2007, 01:44 PM

Originally Posted by maniclion

Poor guy, I say let him have his money. At least he's not staying and at least he is going back to his country to try to add to it's wealth. Most of these types stay in America and deprive there countries of hardworking people like him. If more of them would come and then leave hopefully they could be like planting little seedlings around the world to help bloom poorer nations economies...

I like your thinking.

**Dale Mabry** · 11-06-2007, 02:09 PM

Tax him, charge him the penalties, and give him back what is left. While he was here, he no doubt benefited from the US system, had a safe place to stay that wasn't made out of Palm fronds, and his previous situation was not better otherwise he would have never come here.

**PreMier** · 11-06-2007, 02:37 PM

Originally Posted by Dale Mabry

Tax him, charge him the penalties, and give him back what is left. While he was here, he no doubt benefited from the US system, had a safe place to stay that wasn't made out of Palm fronds, and his previous situation was not better otherwise he would have never come here.

i agree with this (thinking logically) but the other half of me is thinking the same as kelju

**BoneCrusher** · 11-06-2007, 02:37 PM

Giving him his money is essentially saying "Sneak in and you'll get away with it". Money earned while in the commission of a crime is normally considered illegal gains and confiscated by the government.

**DOMS** · 11-06-2007, 02:41 PM

Originally Posted by BoneCrusher

Giving him his money is essentially saying "Sneak in and you'll get away with it". Money earned while in the commission of a crime is normally considered illegal gains and confiscated by the government.

Exactly! You do not reward criminal behavior.

**PreMier** · 11-06-2007, 02:41 PM

Originally Posted by BoneCrusher

Giving him his money is essentially saying "Sneak in and you'll get away with it". Money earned while in the commission of a crime is normally considered illegal gains and confiscated by the government.

this is also true..

so my conclusion to this subject is:

Originally Posted by KelJu

Fuck him!

**Dale Mabry** · 11-06-2007, 02:42 PM

Originally Posted by PreMier

i agree with this (thinking logically) but the other half of me is thinking the same as kelju

That's your gay side, don't embrace it.

**Dale Mabry** · 11-06-2007, 02:47 PM

Originally Posted by BoneCrusher

Giving him his money is essentially saying "Sneak in and you'll get away with it". Money earned while in the commission of a crime is normally considered illegal gains and confiscated by the government.

They gave him $10k already...This country rewards lazy fat bitches that won't keep their legs closed...At least this guy worked and provided some form of service. I will reward an illegal for working before I would reward a drain on the system not working...any day.

**Dale Mabry** · 11-06-2007, 02:58 PM

Originally Posted by BoneCrusher

Giving him his money is essentially saying "Sneak in and you'll get away with it". Money earned while in the commission of a crime is normally considered illegal gains and confiscated by the government.

It is subject to seizure on a case by case basis. In other words, if you are selling drugs or stolen merchandise and profiting from it, that will be seized. If I am smoking pot and get caught while working at Pizza Hut, they aren't going to take my $30. IMO, this case is in between these 2, leaning more towards the stoner. But that's just my opinion.

**squanto** · 11-06-2007, 07:07 PM

I'm with Dale on this one. Make him pay taxes and fine him, but don't take 2/3 of his life savings. Especially on the basis of some bullshit technicality that he didn't declare the money.
I understand why a law requiring one to declare large amounts of money, but this just seems like a simple guy who didn't know any better. Based on that story alone, it seems to me like he was taken advantage of.

This is a good example of why our court systems are supposed to take into account "mens rea," or guilty mind, as well as "actus reus," or guilty actions, when convicting someone. He committed a crime, there is no denying that, so actus reus is out. However, the four components of mens rea are knowledge, intention, recklessness, and negligence. He did not seem to be acting reckless. His intentions, while self-centered, were not bad at heart and can be understood. He lacked knowledge, and maybe was a bit negligent, but I don't think this warrants the penalty imposed.

**Mudge** · 11-06-2007, 07:23 PM

It sucks, but he was asking for it. He broke our laws by coming here illegally, and endorsing this kind of behavior would unfortunately set a precedent. Come here, earn money, and we'll let you do it so long as you pay taxes IF you get caught.

Sucks to be him. Did he make a mistake?

No, he made several. Maybe another arrangement, like letting him keep half, would be less shitty.

**Mudge** · 11-06-2007, 07:27 PM

Originally Posted by maniclion

At least he's not staying and at least he is going back to his country to try to add to it's wealth.

Yes, lets add to everyone else's wealth - surely we don't want it.

Step 1, construct trade deficit
Step 2, send all remaining profits to other countries to help THEM
Step 3, enjoy failure

seriously man.

**squanto** · 11-06-2007, 07:27 PM

Oh, I'm all for taxing him and fining him. But taking away 80% of his money (corrected from my last post) seems way excessive. Especially on the basis that according to this article, he seems to be a hard-working guy with good character traits.

**Mudge** · 11-06-2007, 07:28 PM

They should settle out of court and keep it a secret, IMO. Idiocy, and illegally running into another country, should not be rewarded or condoned.

We've all seen the list of what would happen to us if we lived in, say Mexico illegally. Rights - pretty much none.

**squanto** · 11-06-2007, 07:28 PM

Why is that?

**Mudge** · 11-06-2007, 07:32 PM

Why keep it a secret? Because we don't want every illegal doing this - do we?

The guy ran across the border, he knew damn well he didn't belong here. If we let him go nearly without punishment, and everyone knows about it - then there is no harm in getting caught now is there, other than losing a few pennies.

**A Black Guy** · 11-06-2007, 08:55 PM

Yeah, let this guy get a free ride while there's thousands of Brits, Chinese, Indians and Africans paying thousands of dollars to pass through the formal immigration process.

If you subvert the rules, you risk it all. Everyone knows that. Send him home with nothing.

This article is such a fluffy pile of shit.

"He doesn't even own a car." No shit...maybe because he didn't have a liscense or insurance because he was FUCKING ILLEGAL.

The influx of Guatemalan workers here has only created 1 thing...black ghettos. Up until the late 70's, the blacks here worked in the citrus groves, when the civil war in Guatemala pushed a lot of people out through the islands and Mexico, they were shipped here by the grove owners. They worked cheaper than blacks because they didn't require minimum wage, so overnight the black community lost all of their jobs.

The Guatemalan moved in, with 10-20 in a house, spending very little money, so the local economy didn't need to create new jobs which the blacks could have taken, so the black community has basically been stagnant with no gainful means of employment in 30 years.

We've all seen similar situations like when Goodyear and Firestone pulled out of Compton and when the automakers shuttered up in Detroit.

While assholes on TV use such statements like "we need illegals because white people won't work these jobs" are right...but they're forgetting the fact that all of those jobs were previously performed by blacks.

**maniclion** · 11-06-2007, 09:26 PM

Originally Posted by Mudge

Yes, lets add to everyone else's wealth - surely we don't want it.

Step 1, construct trade deficit
Step 2, send all remaining profits to other countries to help THEM
Step 3, enjoy failure

seriously man.

All I'm saying is I would rather an illegal come and go than live here forever. I also don't want this type of shit hanging up our court system. What he has is a small fortune in his country, he'll go back and spend that locally and that may be enough to boost his community enough to keep several more from doing the same thing...You never really know what kind of positive changes his new brought wealth could have in his area....

**DOMS** · 11-06-2007, 09:27 PM

Originally Posted by A Black Guy

While assholes on TV use such statements like "we need illegals because white people won't work these jobs" are right...but they're forgetting the fact that all of those jobs were previously performed by blacks.

I trust the invisible hand way more than I trust Mexicans.

**squanto** · 11-06-2007, 09:44 PM

Some good points on both sides in this thread.

**vortrit** · 11-06-2007, 10:11 PM

That would be a tough call to make. But no matter what he should at least have to pay taxes and penalties. I know the government is all up my ass if I miss paying my taxes. Regardless of the fact he did not have a car, etc., I bet he still used our paved roads to ride his bike on.

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