DOMS

USMC Rules For Gun fighting
1. Be courteous to everyone, friendly to no one.
2. Decide to be aggressive ENOUGH, quickly ENOUGH.
3. Have a plan.
4. Have a back-up plan, because the first one probably won't work.
5. Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet.
6. Do not attend a gunfight with a handgun whose caliber does not start with at least a "4."
7. Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice. Ammo is cheap. Life is expensive.
8 Move away from your attacker. Distance is your friend. (Lateral and diagonal movement is preferred.)
9. Use cover or concealment as much as possible.
10. Flank your adversary when possible. Protect yours.
11. Always cheat; always win. The only unfair fight is the one you lose.
12. In ten years nobody will remember the details of caliber, stance, or tactics. They will only remember who lived.
13. If you are not shooting, you should be communicating and reloading.
14. Someday someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should have to beat you to death with it because it is empty.

KentDog

Like a broken record, WillBrink chimes in with his main point to support his argument... the same YouTube link yet again.

This still does not address if the intruder is unarmed (which was the original example). Is a possible that having a gun could escalate the situation and perhaps be turned against its owner? I expect you gun nuts to avoid addressing this possibility and just resort to insults instead of civil discussion yet again. The problem with you guys is that you can never admit a gun could be used negatively; guns can only save lives in your minds.

WillBrink

You and I both know I supply more data/fact based info on this topic in a single thread then you have in your entire life. That's a fact, but we also know you will stick your head in the sand if I supply it again. So you think she didn't need the gun? Let's hear your fantasy scenario of what she could have or should have done differently.

Data already supplied many times, thus your usual head in sand fingers in ears "la la la" approach to the topic.

Been addressed many times in many threads, regardless of how much you pretend to have not seen t, It's "possible" a meteor could hit you, so one has to actually look at the actual data to see where the risk to benefit is so:

"The Department of Justice's National Crime Victimization Survey reports that the probability of serious injury from an attack is 2.5 times greater for women offering no resistance than for women resisting with a gun. Men also benefit from using a gun, but the benefits are smaller: offering no resistance is 1.4 times more likely to result in serious injury than resisting with a gun." - Dr. John Lott, John M. Olin law and economics fellow at the University of Chicago School of Law

Wrong as usual. Keep up the good work....

Will @ WWW.BRINKZONE.COM

WWW.OptimalSWAT.com

KentDog

More proof that you are nothing but a delusional asshole .

It's too bad when you actually make a legitimate point, even though it occurs infrequently, you only discredit yourself with your abrasive, unlikable personality.

WillBrink

And this shows how you bob and weave when put in a corner with no place to run, when you don't have the facts to spport your position, ergo your last post you claimed "resort to insults instead of civil discussion yet again."

Who resorted to what again? Moron.


I am still waiting for you to make one of those....

Would rather be correct and "unlikable" than terminally incorrect and everyones favorite person. Stating the facts as they exist does not always make friends. Learned that the hard way in the supplement biz, believe me.

Will @ WWW.BRINKZONE.COM

WWW.OptimalSWAT.com

tomuchgear

ok here is a good point yes a gun can be turned on its owner. the most dangerous type of gun is one that you think is unloaded. yes pulling a gun on some one can escalate a situation to a point that it does not need to go to. my whole thing is if some one breaks into my house with the intent to do any thing at all. i would rather have a firearm so i can say stop or i will blow your fn head off. as opposed to saying please put down the weapon you are holding while i call the police. i support guns i dont support stupid people that walk around with guns thinking that if makes em a hard ass. a gun is a tool like any other tool if used correctly it can be a vital asset. if used for any thing other than self protection, hunting, or shooting a shooting range to blow off steam i see no point in having one.

i bet in the world you live in every one is a pony, eats rainbows, and craps butterflys.
there is no damn justice in the world.

DOMS

So what is he getting wrong? He's backing up his side with more than the anecdotal information that you are.

danzik17

You should be treating an unloaded gun with the same respect that you treat a fully loaded one. If you're about to clean one, I would check it, double check it, then fire the empty chamber somewhere safe just to be 100% sure that nothing is in that gun.

Ron Paul 2008

Journal: Boom goes the dynamite

WillBrink

You think?

You will note he's not claiming I got anything wrong ('cause he can't) , he's just doing what all types of his ilk do when cornered with reality and the facts.

Will @ WWW.BRINKZONE.COM

WWW.OptimalSWAT.com

DOMS

It's that rule #1 of gun handling?

maniclion

Let's talk about something that almost every kitchen in America, hell the world has...Great big thin steel blades capable of puncturing and slicing, able to slit a throat in a single slice.....Think about how many accidents children have with them, think about how easy it is to grab one out of the counter top rack as you, a burglar make your way to the back bedroom of some old ladies home and silently bleed her out no loud bang to alert the neighbors or even a person sleeping in the next room. With practice a person can toss one from a distance and do lethal damage.... A tiny little strip of super sharp steel can be held in ones mouth until they have a chance to part the red sea of your jugular......WHERE'S THE BAN THE BLADES FOLK AT? People don't need knives only butchers should have them, you can get your meat presliced at the store hell most food can be cut with a plastic knife and if you need to cut stuff they have safety scissors for that.....

KentDog

I said the text you quoted in response to Post #93.

- He stated that himself and I both know he has supplied more facts in this thread than I have supplied facts in my entire life. He then states this is a fact. Both are incorrect. It is absurd to honestly believe he has given more facts in this thread than I have given facts in my entire life.

All his responses to my own are not directly relevant to the statements I have made in this thread. What I had said were as follows:

- That I don't believe everyone NEEDS a gun.

- I asked if Clemson truly believed that alarms do not prevent any crimes. He did not answer this question directly but instead repeated that alarms don't matter.

- That not all guns are 100% reliable and that you can never be 100% sure no one will be able to have access to your gun.

- That I don't feel I personally need a gun.

- That not owning a gun does not make one defenseless.

- That if an unarmed intruder enters your home, pulling a gun out on them could escalate a situation that could have been harmless.

What I think you guys aren't getting is that I am not against owning guns. I am not saying people should not own guns. I am not saying the government should take all guns away.

The original point of this thread was whether or not we believed a civilian should be able to own the AA-12. My first post (#16) hints that I don't think any civilian would ever need this type of gun. My second post in this thread (#36) was to acknowledge a good point that maniclion had made about how useful a gun could be in a natural disaster scenario. I agreed. My next post (#70) was agreeing with Tier that sticter gun control laws, in the example stated, could be detrimental because it may persuade criminals who use guns in crimes to use them more frequently. My following post (#71) was in defense of Prince because clemson jumped on his ass about a statement he had made about personally not feeling he needed to own a gun. Not everyone needs a gun. What's so confusing about this? I am not saying to take them all away.

My main problem with some of you gun advocates is that you are so one-sided that you lump anyone who may disagree with you on one point, as someone who wants to ban all guns. And how you got that from my above statements, I do not know .

KentDog

Tell me what is my "type of ilk?" I love guns and have stated that I personally go shoot guns for recreation every so often. I plan on purchasing a gun for myself in the near future. You don't even know me, how can you classify my behavioral personality?

tomuchgear

that is why i put a gun that you think is unloaded. more accidents happen from people thinking a gun is unloaded, ergo a gun that you think is empty can be more dangerous. my grandmother shot my grandfather in the foot with a gun she thought was unloaded. if you no the gun is loaded common sence tells you to discharge the mag, and clear the chamber. if you think a gun is unloaded and dont take the time to check to make sure accidents happen.

i bet in the world you live in every one is a pony, eats rainbows, and craps butterflys.
there is no damn justice in the world.

tomuchgear

dont know what the number one rule is but the rules that i learned growing up were: always check the safety, drop the mag, check the chamber, dont point a gun at any thing you dont plan to shoot, never point a gun any were near your body.

i bet in the world you live in every one is a pony, eats rainbows, and craps butterflys.
there is no damn justice in the world.

WillBrink

Which was in response to your statement "WillBrink chimes in with his main point to support his argument... the same YouTube link yet again." which of course is wrong as anyone can see who reads any gun related thread I am in. I supply a GREAT deal more hard data and facts in any gun related thread than you do, and that son, is a fact. You can back peddle into victim mode if you wish, but who started with the over generalized statements here is easy for everyone to see in addition to throwing the insults, etc when put into a corner.


And no one said other wise.

Wow, this statement above all others shows what sort of fantasy land you are in. There is NEVER a time an intruder is in your home that the situation is harmless. I never knew anyone in quite this level of ignorance. You must have lived some charmed life to be that clueless.

And no one said otherwise. More assumptions about "gun nuts" on your part.

Will @ WWW.BRINKZONE.COM

WWW.OptimalSWAT.com

DOMS

A very common tactic on the Internet.

It's even worse than that.

How many people have been murdered because they startled the intruder (sometimes on accident), and then the intruder panicked and killed them? A lot of people have been murdered by people who "didn't mean to do it."

Trusting your life to an intruder (a very messed up individual to begin with), is just plain moronic.

WillBrink

Which is an odd tactic as it's all right there in print for everyone to see! In a verbal debate you can try that, and some times it works, but it NEVER works in the 'net for the reason there is a record of everything that was said right there!



Of course, and on the flip side, it also rarely happens that a home owner with a gun is startled and shoots there own family member or something of that nature, and that really sucks, but again, the data shows clearly the benefits of owning a gun FAR outweigh the negatives, and that is the only real point I have ever made here.

Can you imagine even making such a statement and thinking it's a reasonable thing to say? Amazing.

Will @ WWW.BRINKZONE.COM

WWW.OptimalSWAT.com

KentDog

I had stated that a house alarm can work to deter someone from entering your home. This point was not to say anything bad about guns, but to support Prince's statement that he felt he didn't need a gun because he lived in an upper middleclass neighborhood and had a house alarm. Clemson followed this by essentially calling him unintelligent and ignorant because this was his opinion. You posted with sarcasm that all the woman in your YouTube video needed was an alarm and wishful thinking, not a gun. I had never disagreed, yet you chose to attack what I said about house alarms. Then in post #88, you classify me as "one of those people unable to think beyond his own personal situation and is unable to put himself in anothers shoes. A common human failing." How am I the first to throw insults here?

I am not saying that I provide more gun facts than you do. I suppose I misinterpreted what you had originally said. I had thought you said you provided more facts in one of your threads than I have provided overall facts (not only gun related ones) in my entire life. I felt this because why else would you say "my entire life?" Why not have just said "in all of your posts combined?" I feel like I need to restate that I am not against gun ownership.

Well, you've misunderstood what I had meant by the quoted. It may have been unclear wording on my part. What I had meant was physical harm. If someone enters your home and you pull a gun on them but end up getting shot yourself, that is physical harm that may have been avoided. Or if a neighbor came home drunk but mistakenly entered through your front door instead of theirs, and you shot before you had realized who it was, that is physical harm that may have been avoided.

You don't know me. If you did and felt I was the most ignorant person you knew, then you probably do not know very many people. And then you continue by calling me "that clueless." More unnecessary insults.

I assume that you do know that I did not mean "everyone" in the literal sense when I had said that not everyone needed a gun. This was said in response to clemson jumping on Prince's ass for saying that he felt he didn't need a gun because he lived in a nice neighborhood and had a house alarm. So what, this is his opinion and everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I do not feel I personally need a gun either.

bio-chem

If the same youtube post is appropriate maybe you should try and understand it this time.

I'll address the intruder being unarmed. Kill him. He is an intruder and has negative intentions in my home. armed or not he needs to die. Is it possible that having a gun in my home and an unarmed intruder comes in and uses it against me? sure. anything is possible. but i prefer that situation to the one where an armed intruder enters my home and i dont have a gun. there you go. no insults. civil. can and are guns used negatively? all the time. doesnt mean i should be denied the right to own one and have the ability to protect myself or my family.