Thread: Hand puppet stabs President Bush to death on Hamas kids show

How do you differentiate between the two? As far as I know, there is no checkbox on whether you are willing to fight in another country or not. If you are told to go, then you go. Otherwise you go to jail.

Originally Posted by danzik17

How do you differentiate between the two? As far as I know, there is no checkbox on whether you are willing to fight in another country or not. If you are told to go, then you go. Otherwise you go to jail.

Not true. Nobody, not even God, can take your right to choose. Your ability to make decisions is the only thing you have that can't be taken away. I would have gladly fought in every major American war except for Vietnam War, Desert Storm, and Iraqi Freedom. I don't pick up arms and kill people because my government tells me to. I am perfectly capable of making my own decisions.

I guess I am just old fashioned. I seem to remember that our founding fathers made their own decisions, too. They refused to give in to an oppressing government. They gave England the finger and fought for what they believed in. Loyalist was a dirty word then. I find much in common between the loyalist of old and patriots of new.

If a real threat comes our way, and I'm not talking about some bullshit political war, I will pick up arms and fight.

As will I, but the closest thing we have to "only defend our country" is the National Guard and they are still being made to fight over in Iraq.

Being single it's easy to make that decision, but what if you have family riding on your paychecks? Are you supposed to say no and simply abandon them for jail?

It's a fucked up situation and again I have always been against this illegal war but it is our leaders creating the problems, not the soldiers.

Reading this is great. I'm learning a lot about this stuff in my clinical area...its called a delusion.

Jews and Americans are bad. Muslims just want peace. We are picking on the innocent Muslims and the dirty Jews stole their land and killed their people. The Muslims are the victims and are training their own children to kill themselves out of self defense.

Originally Posted by danzik17

As will I, but the closest thing we have to "only defend our country" is the National Guard and they are still being made to fight over in Iraq.

Being single it's easy to make that decision, but what if you have family riding on your paychecks? Are you supposed to say no and simply abandon them for jail?

It's a fucked up situation and again I have always been against this illegal war but it is our leaders creating the problems, not the soldiers.

I agree. I also hold no fault to anyone who joins the military or is drafted. Its called a chain of command. You donate your body and part of your mind of the service. Part of military training is breaking you down psychologically and building you back up to take orders, and complete them to the best of your ability.

I also understand that there are people who are dedicated to their families, and in the situation where a draft is enacted, would believe they have no choice. As far as they are concerned, they don't have a choice. Their duty to their family forces them to make a tough decision. Do you compromise your morals, ethics, and beliefs for the sake of your family? I think most people would and do often.

I'm not passing judgment. I'm just saying there is a choice.

Originally Posted by danzik17

How do you differentiate between the two? As far as I know, there is no checkbox on whether you are willing to fight in another country or not. If you are told to go, then you go. Otherwise you go to jail.

You hit many issues.

First and foremost, you don't join the MIC by putting yourself in that position.

It's a chicken before the egg, type of thing.

Don't put yourself in that position - ever.

Originally Posted by Yanick

Reading this is great. I'm learning a lot about this stuff in my clinical area...its called a delusion.

Jews and Americans are bad. Muslims just want peace. We are picking on the innocent Muslims and the dirty Jews stole their land and killed their people. The Muslims are the victims and are training their own children to kill themselves out of self defense.

I don't know who's ever written that. I've never read it. If I did, I wouldn't believe it.

My take (since you noted yours):

1. Americans want to pursue self-interest
2. Zionists (and some Zionist Jews) want to pursue their own interests
3. Muslims want to pursue their own self-interest.

The above is all covered in International Relations 101.


Self-interest.

Originally Posted by KelJu

I agree. I also hold no fault to anyone who joins the military or is drafted

There is no draft.

The draft was ended by Gen. Abrams (whom the Abrams M-1 Tank is named after).


Gen. Abrams ended draft for many reasons.

Its called a chain of command. You donate your body and part of your mind of the service.

You're going back to the draft - which ended in 1973 - 35 years ago.

Originally Posted by KelJu

I agree. I also hold no fault to anyone who joins the military or is drafted. Its called a chain of command. You donate your body and part of your mind of the service. Part of military training is breaking you down psychologically and building you back up to take orders, and complete them to the best of your ability.

I also understand that there are people who are dedicated to their families, and in the situation where a draft is enacted, would believe they have no choice. As far as they are concerned, they don't have a choice. Their duty to their family forces them to make a tough decision. Do you compromise your morals, ethics, and beliefs for the sake of your family? I think most people would and do often.

I'm not passing judgment. I'm just saying there is a choice.

"Give me liberty or give me death." Uttered these days would get you on the terrorism watch list.

Originally Posted by Big Smoothy

There is no draft.

The draft was ended by Gen. Abrams (whom the Abrams M-1 Tank is named after).


Gen. Abrams ended draft for many reasons.



You're going back to the draft - which ended in 1973 - 35 years ago.

What about the last resort draft? When a kid feels that the economic hardship in his area make joining the military his only choice of not ending up on the streets. when I was in the Navy that was a lot of my friends stories, they had tried to start careers but ended up failing over and over again so they figured their only chance at getting anywhere in life would be joining up....I wasn't one of them, I could have gone straight to college my step father had millions, my father would have gotten me discounted rates at the college he worked for but I decided to go and serve my country and get some real world experience before going to college. I thought it would make coming back and applying myself to getting the most out of school better and it did....
How about right now with the economy in the shitter I wouldn't be surprised if enlistment rates go up....

Originally Posted by Big Smoothy

There is no draft.

The draft was ended by Gen. Abrams (whom the Abrams M-1 Tank is named after).


Gen. Abrams ended draft for many reasons.



You're going back to the draft - which ended in 1973 - 35 years ago.

There is a registration for the selective service that I had to sign up for to get into college or to get a student loan. It means the same fucking thing, so STFU!

Originally Posted by Big Smoothy

I don't remember the offer on the flight ticket DOMS, thanks. (Mulling it over....}

Yes, I do believe someone or some people would resort to violence and beat me up if I told them my political views.
Having a discussion is not for everyone. Hurling insults are also common.

That's the way many Americans can be.

Some of my veteran friends say, "kill Iraqis. Gott kell 'em." I say, "why not kill the Americans? They started this."

But this is sacrilege. You can criticize the government, and you can criticize the military as an organization, but you cannot criticize the troops.

This is dangerous.

I know they were sent there.....but they are there.

We have to start realizing what PNAC/Neo-Con policies are doing to the world and doing to our country, negatively.

You call stating that you are glad when a soldier is killed in Iraq, that he got what he deserved, and that he is an uneducated fascist "having a discussion."

The things you say are called "Fighting Words" not "having a discussion" and you would get your ass kicked for them, and it would be you who was in violation of the law.

Originally Posted by brogers

You call stating that you are glad when a soldier is killed in Iraq, that he got what he deserved, and that he is an uneducated fascist "having a discussion."

The things you say are called "Fighting Words" not "having a discussion" and you would get your ass kicked for them, and it would be you who was in violation of the law.

It's funny how you're more worried about someone's opinion on a forum versus the reality of people dying on both sides in an unjust war. War crimes would be the violation of the law here.

Originally Posted by KelJu

There is a registration for the selective service that I had to sign up for to get into college or to get a student loan. It means the same fucking thing, so STFU!

Wrong.

When you register (as I did) to for the Selective Service you are putting your name on a list for a potential draft.

There is no draft today.

There likely never will be unless the US is invaded.

The Pentagon has extensively studied drafts and draftee performance and found that it doesn't work in many areas. Much less effective than a volunteer force.

Selective Service is not the draft. It means you are listed in case there was a draft in a time of national emergency.

You're confusing apples and oranges.

Originally Posted by BigDyl

"Give me liberty or give me death." Uttered these days would get you on the terrorism watch list.

Originally said by Patrick Henry.

He must be rolling in his grave today.

Originally Posted by maniclion

What about the last resort draft? When a kid feels that the economic hardship in his area make joining the military his only choice of not ending up on the streets. when I was in the Navy that was a lot of my friends stories, they had tried to start careers but ended up failing over and over again so they figured their only chance at getting anywhere in life would be joining up....I wasn't one of them, I could have gone straight to college my step father had millions, my father would have gotten me discounted rates at the college he worked for but I decided to go and serve my country and get some real world experience before going to college. I thought it would make coming back and applying myself to getting the most out of school better and it did....
How about right now with the economy in the shitter I wouldn't be surprised if enlistment rates go up....

Many of my friends that joined the military after high school did it for economic reasons. They couldn't afford to go to a vocational school and/or University. Too many costs involved: housing, food, transpo, textbooks, tuition, plus not being able to work enough hours to pay for the above.

This is very convenient. Education and training is expensive.

The military comes in: "We'll help you pay for it. We'll also give you training."

Sign a contract with us for X amount of years, which is illegal to break.

The Pentagon needs new recruits. They also want young ones who political and ethical values are not fixed so the military can mold their minds.

Originally Posted by brogers

....and it would be you who was in violation of the law.

What law is broken?

The Schenck vs. United States, 1965 allows for free speech.

Please cite what federal or state statute is violated, brogers.

Chaplinsky v. New Hampshire in the 1940's.

Originally Posted by Big Smoothy

I support Hamas: there is no excuse for what is happening in Gaza.

I support Hezbollah: there is no excuse for the US to express mail cluster bombs that killed over 1,000 Lebanese civilians.

GWB and the US is largely responsible for Gaza, and the West Bank.


Hezbollah is gearing up for round 2, and it will happen within the next two to four years. Hezbollah has more rockets that have longer range.

So go over there and join their fuckin terrorist organization and get the fuck outta the US...we are trying to rid terrorist...dont need another here.

Originally Posted by KelJu

Not true. Nobody, not even God, can take your right to choose. Your ability to make decisions is the only thing you have that can't be taken away. I would have gladly fought in every major American war except for Vietnam War, Desert Storm, and Iraqi Freedom. I don't pick up arms and kill people because my government tells me to. I am perfectly capable of making my own decisions.

I guess I am just old fashioned. I seem to remember that our founding fathers made their own decisions, too. They refused to give in to an oppressing government. They gave England the finger and fought for what they believed in. Loyalist was a dirty word then. I find much in common between the loyalist of old and patriots of new.

If a real threat comes our way, and I'm not talking about some bullshit political war, I will pick up arms and fight.

You dont have a choice whenever you sign the dotted line....if they say go fuck up china...you better do it....under contract they own you...but you arent in the military....and if you are and you disobey...count on spending the rest of your life in prison or better yet if you evade war you can be executed by the UCMJ

Originally Posted by KelJu

There is a registration for the selective service that I had to sign up for to get into college or to get a student loan. It means the same fucking thing, so STFU!

This is correct...the selective service is the draft. I am in the military and I can tell ya if they need to you will be drafted without a choice...and if you deny it...prison, or even death....UCMJ.

Originally Posted by Big Smoothy

I don't remember the offer on the flight ticket DOMS, thanks. (Mulling it over....}

Yes, I do believe someone or some people would resort to violence and beat me up if I told them my political views.
Having a discussion is not for everyone. Hurling insults are also common.

That's the way many Americans can be.

Some of my veteran friends say, "kill Iraqis. Gott kell 'em." I say, "why not kill the Americans? They started this."

But this is sacrilege. You can criticize the government, and you can criticize the military as an organization, but you cannot criticize the troops.

This is dangerous.

I know they were sent there.....but they are there.

We have to start realizing what PNAC/Neo-Con policies are doing to the world and doing to our country, negatively.

Uh they are keeping clowns like you from blowing buildings up and killing innocent life on our home turf....so shut the fuck up and go help them out...you can be exterminated just like them.......
___Active military member

Originally Posted by Big Smoothy

Wrong.

When you register (as I did) to for the Selective Service you are putting your name on a list for a potential draft.

There is no draft today.

There likely never will be unless the US is invaded.

The Pentagon has extensively studied drafts and draftee performance and found that it doesn't work in many areas. Much less effective than a volunteer force.

Selective Service is not the draft. It means you are listed in case there was a draft in a time of national emergency.

You're confusing apples and oranges.

Which means the same mother fucking thing. You are nit picking over words. How about this. I'll break it down for you.
I am on file with the selective service to be called upon in case of a national emergency. If I do not believe in the validity of the supposed emergency, I will not go!

Are you happy? Now STFU you god damn loser!

Originally Posted by KelJu

Which means the same mother fucking thing. You are nit picking over words. How about this. I'll break it down for you.
I am on file with the selective service to be called upon in case of a national emergency. If I do not believe in the validity of the supposed emergency, I will not go!

Are you happy? Now STFU you god damn loser!

I....uhm....registered also....and yes, if my nation is attacked I will defend it.

What is your point.

Are you mixing foreign intervention to promote economic interests with defending our nation?

I will defend my nation. I am proud of it. I'm proud of our Constitution.

Originally Posted by imback

Uh they are keeping clowns like you from blowing buildings up and killing innocent life on our home turf....so shut the fuck up and go help them out...you can be exterminated just like them.......
___Active military member

I've never blown up a building. What are you talking about?

Please clarify.

Exterminate? What do you mean?

Killing innocent life on our "home turf?

What are you talking about?

The hundreds of thousand of Iraqis and millions of Vietnamese murdered?

Or, the 4,000 Americans killed in Iraq? Or, the 58,000 killed in Vietnam?

Look at the numbers: 4K + 58K vs. the millions the Americans have murdered.




Wake Up.

Originally Posted by Big Smoothy

I....uhm....registered also....and yes, if my nation is attacked I will defend it.

What is your point.

Are you mixing foreign intervention to promote economic interests with defending our nation?

I will defend my nation. I am proud of it. I'm proud of our Constitution.

Are you fucking stupid or something? You spent two post arguing about semantics of my usage of the word "draft".

Originally Posted by imback

You dont have a choice whenever you sign the dotted line....if they say go fuck up china...you better do it....under contract they own you...but you arent in the military....and if you are and you disobey...count on spending the rest of your life in prison or better yet if you evade war you can be executed by the UCMJ

My government makes lots of laws that I don't give two shits about. I don't follow their rules. I follow my rules. Luckily for me, most of the government's rules are also my rules. But, if I am drafted for something I do not believe in, I will find away out of it.

Originally Posted by KelJu

Are you fucking stupid or something? You spent two post arguing about semantics of my usage of the word "draft".

KelJu,

You're the one that started the "selective service registration" rant when I said there wouldn't be a draft. I agree, we should move on.

Gen. Creighton Abrams was a very influential man who made many changes in the military after the debacle of Vietnam.

As for the topics of drafts, they are a disaster.

Anyway, back to the topic we were on, whatever it was.

Poster imback, has completely lost the plot.