10 questions every intelligent Christian must answer

shiznit2169 · 05-04-2008, 03:13 PM

YouTube Video

I am Catholic and i agree with this

Jeeper · 05-04-2008, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shiznit2169

I am Catholic and i agree with this

How can you say you are catholic and believe this? You agree that "god is imaginary", like he says? That makes it tough to be catholic.

shiznit2169 · 05-04-2008, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeeper

How can you say you are catholic and believe this? You agree that "god is imaginary", like he says? That makes it tough to be catholic.

My religion is catholic, yes, but that doesn't mean i have to believe in "God". I have my reasons and will not get into a religious debate. I just find this video to be interesting ... that is all.

clemson357 · 05-04-2008, 07:02 PM

I got about 20 seconds in, when he started listing a laundry list of professionals which he considered "smart people." Then I decided that he sucks and his voice is annoying, and I turned it off.

maniclion · 05-04-2008, 07:30 PM

Religion is a very important resource for us humans. With our complicated minds we have had to come up with some ways of explaining things that we can't understand to help simplify existence or else we would sit around all the time wondering just who the hell we are, why we are here and if there is a higher power watching over us and a lower power trying to drag us down. I turned to Buddhism at the age of 10 when life started getting too strange for me even though from an early age I had been raised a Christian and went to a Baptist church every Wednesday and Sunday. That form of reasoning was too unreal for me so I sought out a different approach in Buddha's words. Today I have taken a whole new form of spirituality where I pick and choose from several different beliefs, things that I think will help to make me a better person. I don't believe that my way is the only right way and I think that is the fatal flaw in all religions that do believe theirs is the only way. Thats the reason why I am so hard on Christians. Muslims, Jews and other religions that would make their fellow man suffer because they don't view righteousness the same way. The great thing I see in religions is the power of our imaginations to create such awesome explanations and in each one I see a piece of the real puzzle hidden. I think that our greatest gift has been the power to imagine, our own god-like quality. Sometimes I wonder if their is a god/gods or was a god/gods that maybe either it/they created us so that in time we could grow to be like itself/them or perhaps maybe this god/gods sacrificed or were destroyed in an explosion like the big bang and in each one of our imaginative brains lives a part of that god or those gods. I mean their are less stars in the universe than possibilities to explain our existence so how could anyone revolve around just one star without taking a look at the nearly infinite others even if it means that you'll have to venture into the twilight to gaze at them?

lnvanry · 05-04-2008, 07:44 PM

This author sure uses scientific reasoning by explaining things through the complex educated vocabulary of "ditto"LMAO

I actually agree with most of what he said, but he did a piss poor job of conveying the argument. He does a nice spin on flattering the viewing by assuming you are intelligent by holding a college degree (which by NO means qualifies you as smart IMO...just maybe a little disciplined at worst)

Also, what delusional thinking isn't always counterproductive. Some of the worlds greatest visionaries were under "delusional" thinking...Newton for example. The author seems to believe that believer work such as mother Theresa was delusional and therefore hurtful to mankind...GMFB.

Delusional thinking can also be used as a method of control. A method of control that can be used to mankind's greater benefit.

A brief touch on slavery as well: Yes it is brutal and stands against everything we value today in virtually every society; however, paramount achievements have been made in mathematics, physics, construction etc that required slavery.

My point is things are so cut and dry as the author depicts. Its atheistic propaganda nor better or worse than religious propaganda.

Witchblade · 05-04-2008, 08:54 PM

Rationality + believing in God = oxymoron

**dg806** · 05-04-2008, 09:30 PM

That was a complete waste of my time.

danny81 · 05-04-2008, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dg806

That was a complete waste of my time.

cosgined

**Gazhole** · 05-05-2008, 08:08 AM

It makes me wonder how much more progress we would have made as a species if, when we didnt understand something, we tried to find out rather than saying "god did it".

Thing is, i can see why people get so confused and have crises of faith - because they are trying to posit something that contradicts every law, logical or otherwise, that they've ever encountered in the world.

Mixing logic with morality is probably the worst idea ever. They can't co-exist. Logic is immutable, morality is dynamic. You try and superimpose what you think is "right" and what "should" happen upon a set of rigid facts and you get major gaping holes in the result.

E.g.

The law = stealing is a punishable offense.

Morals = he was only stealing because he is a single parent trying to bring up four children on his own, he's lost his job because he's trying to look after them, cant afford food, and is about to lose his house because he cant afford the rent payments. He's living alone because his wife died of cancer.

The law says he should be punished, morals say you should feel sorry for him and cut him a break.

Put this on a larger scale:

Law = bad things happen sometimes, good things happen sometimes.

Morals = i dont want bad things to happen to me. This isnt fair. Why is this happening to me? I dont deserve this, do i?

What makes people think that bad things are some sort of punishment for their own actions, be they good or bad?

Put in an all powerful being that apparently has control over everything in existence, and immediatly people feel persecuted and confused. The obvious course of action is to remove the item that confuses the whole process, which is god, then religion (which usually gives a link between logic and morality) and voila, no more bad feelings.

Accept that bad things happen, and work through them. Dont put the blame on something else, if its your own fault, learn from that.

I made this realisation when i was fucking six years old, it baffles me why most other people cant get it. I was raised a Christian, but in the face of overwhelming logic and gaping holes in the concept of God and the text in the Bible, even as a child i saw it was stupid.

At least my own imaginary concepts were entertaining. Pretending i was a superhero was fun, pretending i was going to burn in hell for being proud of myself, or thinking about boobs wasnt fun at all.

Deadly sins my ass.

Big Smoothy · 05-05-2008, 08:32 AM

Religion is for the weak.

It's a human archetype.

The ancient Egyptians had the sun gods. Isis, Ra, and other.

The Roman gods, Greek Gods, Zoroastrianism, and animistic gods.

**Gazhole** · 05-05-2008, 08:35 AM

Norse mythology is the only one i could buy into, mostly because its fucking awesome

I dont WANT to believe in a Carpenter's son, God, Disciples...blah blah. I do on the other hand want to believe in giants, and Thor, and Odin and all that lot. Epic battles, Ragnarok...aaaah...

tomuchgear · 05-05-2008, 08:52 AM

i follow a path becouse religion is my passion. i love reading about it but i dont have a exact religion i would claim. i like the theory of the tower of babel. if every one started speaking a diffrent language, names of things would change. if you study enough religion you see that other than names much of it is the same.

goob · 05-05-2008, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gazhole

It makes me wonder how much more progress we would have made as a species if, when we didnt understand something, we tried to find out rather than saying "god did it".

Thing is, i can see why people get so confused and have crises of faith - because they are trying to posit something that contradicts every law, logical or otherwise, that they've ever encountered in the world.

Mixing logic with morality is probably the worst idea ever. They can't co-exist. Logic is immutable, morality is dynamic. You try and superimpose what you think is "right" and what "should" happen upon a set of rigid facts and you get major gaping holes in the result.

E.g.

The law = stealing is a punishable offense.

Morals = he was only stealing because he is a single parent trying to bring up four children on his own, he's lost his job because he's trying to look after them, cant afford food, and is about to lose his house because he cant afford the rent payments. He's living alone because his wife died of cancer.

The law says he should be punished, morals say you should feel sorry for him and cut him a break.

Put this on a larger scale:

Law = bad things happen sometimes, good things happen sometimes.

Morals = i dont want bad things to happen to me. This isnt fair. Why is this happening to me? I dont deserve this, do i?

What makes people think that bad things are some sort of punishment for their own actions, be they good or bad?

Put in an all powerful being that apparently has control over everything in existence, and immediatly people feel persecuted and confused. The obvious course of action is to remove the item that confuses the whole process, which is god, then religion (which usually gives a link between logic and morality) and voila, no more bad feelings.

Accept that bad things happen, and work through them. Dont put the blame on something else, if its your own fault, learn from that.

I made this realisation when i was fucking six years old, it baffles me why most other people cant get it. I was raised a Christian, but in the face of overwhelming logic and gaping holes in the concept of God and the text in the Bible, even as a child i saw it was stupid.

At least my own imaginary concepts were entertaining. Pretending i was a superhero was fun, pretending i was going to burn in hell for being proud of myself, or thinking about boobs wasnt fun at all.

Deadly sins my ass.

Holy shit. That was almost as long as the bible. Was Gaz standing on a mountain while delivering this post?

Good points though, and agreed with Bishop Gazhole.

Religeon has become moral guidelines on how to live your life. THere is no evidence god exsists, but people have to have something to make sense of what happens after you die.

DaMayor · 05-05-2008, 12:16 PM

God told me not to bother with this debate.

Selah

NeilPearson · 05-05-2008, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shiznit2169

My religion is catholic, yes, but that doesn't mean i have to believe in "God". I have my reasons and will not get into a religious debate. I just find this video to be interesting ... that is all.

Actually it does.

As a Catholic there are many things you have to believe in like not using birth control and that the Pope in infallible.

Religion is a belief system. I don't know why Catholics seem to think they can disagree with 95% of the religions beliefs and still belong in the religion.

Religion is a choice. It's what you believe. It's not a birthright or a race.

Quit being delusional. No matter how much I believe and say I am black, my pale white skin proves I am not. And if I told a black guy I was black, he would disagree in the same way the Pope would disagree that you are Catholic. Try this... write a letter to your church or the vatican and say you don't believe in the fundamentals of their teachings and ask if you are still a Catholic.

KelJu · 05-05-2008, 01:07 PM

I don't have any a job that he listed. I'm dumb.

**Gazhole** · 05-05-2008, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goob

Holy shit. That was almost as long as the bible. Was Gaz standing on a mountain while delivering this post?

Good points though, and agreed with Bishop Gazhole.

Religeon has become moral guidelines on how to live your life. THere is no evidence god exsists, but people have to have something to make sense of what happens after you die.

I tried to start Gaztianity but it just didnt catch on

goob · 05-05-2008, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gazhole

I tried to start Gaztianity but it just didnt catch on

There's always Goobism. Based losely on Christianity, the object is to break all the commandments and deadly sins on a daily basis......

KelJu · 05-05-2008, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeilPearson

Actually it does.

As a Catholic there are many things you have to believe in like not using birth control and that the Pope in infallible.

Religion is a belief system. I don't know why Catholics seem to think they can disagree with 95% of the religions beliefs and still belong in the religion.

Religion is a choice. It's what you believe. It's not a birthright or a race.

Quit being delusional. No matter how much I believe and say I am black, my pale white skin proves I am not. And if I told a black guy I was black, he would disagree in the same way the Pope would disagree that you are Catholic. Try this... write a letter to your church or the vatican and say you don't believe in the fundamentals of their teachings and ask if you are still a Catholic.

Religion isn't about beliefs nearly as much as it is about going through the motions. Faith is about beliefs. Faith is what you believe. Religion is what some guy behind a podium tells you to believe. I think Shiz can be a Catholic as long as he goes to mass.

A good example is that many catholics do not see homosexuality as a sin. Well, the Pope says it is. So if you believe that god loves gays just as much as everyone else, and that the church is just wrong on that one, than does that make you a non-catholic?

NeilPearson · 05-05-2008, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KelJu

Religion isn't about beliefs nearly as much as it is about going through the motions. Faith is about beliefs. Faith is what you believe. Religion is what some guy behind a podium tells you to believe. I think Shiz can be a Catholic as long as he goes to mass.

A good example is that many catholics do not see homosexuality as a sin. Well, the Pope says it is. So if you believe that god loves gays just as much as everyone else, and that the church is just wrong on that one, than does that make you a non-catholic?

Well except if you told the Catholic church (or any church) that you did not believe in their beliefs, they would kick your ass out.

re·li·gion

1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
3. the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.
4. the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.
5. the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.
6. something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience: to make a religion of fighting prejudice.

I don't see how meaninglessly going through the motions falls into any of these definitions of religion

Like I said, I can say and believe I'm black but if I'm pasty and white... I am just delusional and crazy.

NeilPearson · 05-05-2008, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KelJu

Religion isn't about beliefs nearly as much as it is about going through the motions. Faith is about beliefs. Faith is what you believe. Religion is what some guy behind a podium tells you to believe. I think Shiz can be a Catholic as long as he goes to mass.

A good example is that many catholics do not see homosexuality as a sin. Well, the Pope says it is. So if you believe that god loves gays just as much as everyone else, and that the church is just wrong on that one, than does that make you a non-catholic?

Faith is the reason for believing (since there really is no other reason). Religion is what you believe.

Religion without beliefs is worthless according to the bible and is worse than not participating in the religion at all.

faith
1. confidence or trust in a person or thing: faith in another's ability.
2. belief that is not based on proof: He had faith that the hypothesis would be substantiated by fact.
3. belief in God or in the doctrines or teachings of religion: the firm faith of the Pilgrims.
4. belief in anything, as a code of ethics, standards of merit, etc.: to be of the same faith with someone concerning honesty.
5. a system of religious belief: the Christian faith; the Jewish faith.
6. the obligation of loyalty or fidelity to a person, promise, engagement, etc.: Failure to appear would be breaking faith.
7. the observance of this obligation; fidelity to one's promise, oath, allegiance, etc.: He was the only one who proved his faith during our recent troubles.
8. Christian Theology. the trust in God and in His promises as made through Christ and the Scriptures by which humans are justified or saved.
—Idiom9. in faith, in truth; indeed: In faith, he is a fine lad.

05-04-2008, 07:02 PM	#4
clemson357 __________ Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 2,274 Photos: 1	I got about 20 seconds in, when he started listing a laundry list of professionals which he considered "smart people." Then I decided that he sucks and his voice is annoying, and I turned it off.
	________________________

05-04-2008, 08:54 PM	#7
Witchblade Succinct Elite Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Holland Posts: 3,942 Photos: 2	Rationality + believing in God = oxymoron
	My Journal My Linkdump [LSFW] IM Official FAQ [WORK IN PROGRESS]

05-04-2008, 09:30 PM	#8
dg806 Guardian of The Homeland Super Moderator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Charlotte NC Posts: 16,597	That was a complete waste of my time.
	"So as we set out this year to defeat the divisive forces that would take our freedom away, I want to say those words again for everyone within the sound of my voice to hear and to heed, and especially for you, Mr. Gore. From my cold dead hands!" "I now begin the journey that will lead me into the sunset of my life. I know that for America there will always be a bright dawn ahead." Nov. 5, 1994 - Ronald Reagan

05-05-2008, 08:52 AM	#13
tomuchgear gettin there Elite Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: ohio Posts: 1,063 Photos: 2	i follow a path becouse religion is my passion. i love reading about it but i dont have a exact religion i would claim. i like the theory of the tower of babel. if every one started speaking a diffrent language, names of things would change. if you study enough religion you see that other than names much of it is the same.
	"im going to go inject syntherol in my ass see if it gets me a bubble butt" i bet in the world you live in every one is a pony, eats rainbows, and craps butterflies.

05-04-2008, 07:44 PM	#6
lnvanry primeau Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Arizona Posts: 2,847 Photos: 12	This author sure uses scientific reasoning by explaining things through the complex educated vocabulary of "ditto"LMAO I actually agree with most of what he said, but he did a piss poor job of conveying the argument. He does a nice spin on flattering the viewing by assuming you are intelligent by holding a college degree (which by NO means qualifies you as smart IMO...just maybe a little disciplined at worst) Also, what delusional thinking isn't always counterproductive. Some of the worlds greatest visionaries were under "delusional" thinking...Newton for example. The author seems to believe that believer work such as mother Theresa was delusional and therefore hurtful to mankind...GMFB. Delusional thinking can also be used as a method of control. A method of control that can be used to mankind's greater benefit. A brief touch on slavery as well: Yes it is brutal and stands against everything we value today in virtually every society; however, paramount achievements have been made in mathematics, physics, construction etc that required slavery. My point is things are so cut and dry as the author depicts. Its atheistic propaganda nor better or worse than religious propaganda.

05-05-2008, 08:32 AM	#11
Big Smoothy Windy City Elite Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Chicago Posts: 2,526	Religion is for the weak. It's a human archetype. The ancient Egyptians had the sun gods. Isis, Ra, and other. The Roman gods, Greek Gods, Zoroastrianism, and animistic gods.

05-05-2008, 12:16 PM	#15
DaMayor Pants Up, Ho's Down Elite Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Here. Posts: 4,859	God told me not to bother with this debate. Selah