Thread: Jay Leno's highly opinionated take on how to fix Detroit.

Very well said. I especially liked the "chicken wing" comment because it's so dead on.

One thing that Jay didn't mention was the planned obsolescence that the US car makers tried from the late 70s to the early 90s. That's why US cars have such a bad reputation.

I've been saying this since i started enjoying and understanding cars. Imports are just more refined and more reliable. My first car was a 1997 infiniti i30t, i bought it with 145k miles and drove it until 200k miles without a single problem that i didn't cause myself (accidents and what not). I finally totalled it when some guy cut me off and i swerved to avoid him but curbed my car hard and bent the frame. At that point fixing it wasn't cost effective anymore so i took the hit and bought a different car.

~3 years and 55k miles and all i ever spent money on was to switch out the main wire harness with cost ~$120. Not counting wear and tear stuff.

My mother spent close to 1 grand fixing her ~99 buick regal with under 100k miles in 1 year. Now she drives a 2k1 Camry and hasn't been to a mechanic in ages (sans wear and tear stuff of course).

American auto makers can't provide a competitive low end car, cause of the what the Union has done to get the employees a ridiculous amount of control.

They are making better cars though.

The one thing I always thought was a slap in the face to the consumer was how they would take a car and make a couple of changes and give it a new badge.

Gas prices/gas mileage are what is going to determine the victor from here on out, IMO.

Originally Posted by AKIRA

Gas prices/gas mileage are what is going to determine the victor from here on out, IMO.

Much like the 70's.

Originally Posted by AKIRA

Gas prices/gas mileage are what is going to determine the victor from here on out, IMO.

Fuel type and power source will be the determining factor, all those years we thought we'd be flying cars by now and here it is down to what is the most efficient way to keep them rolling.......

I think our technology is behind. We got battery operated cars, yeah, but how many can most of them seat? How fast can they go? How much do they cost?

The Jap cars are cleaning up with the hybrid market. I see Hybrid Priuses, Highlanders etc all over the place. Do any American companies even put out hybrids?

Originally Posted by IainDaniel

American auto makers can't provide a competitive low end car, cause of the what the Union has done to get the employees a ridiculous amount of control.

They only build what they are told to build. Quality has to start in engineering and design.

I've been in the testing segment of the automotive industry for 15 years now. Working for an independent test lab and in the test lab of a major automotive supplier. There is a definite difference in what the domestic automakers do in engineering versus foreign automakers.

The main difference being when something doesn't work as it should American automakers and suppliers try to pin the blame on somebody, foreign automakers get right to work fixing the problem, especially the Japanese.

I've got so many stories it isn't funny anymore.

Domestic cars suck donkey nuts compared to Toyota, Nissan, and Honda. I will not buy domestic for at least 20 years, and even after that, I won't buy domestic until they build a car that isn't a piece of shit.

I would love to support my country and buy American, but I refuse to waste money like that on sub par workmanship. My dad is a hardcore GM and Ford man. He hates foreign cars, but he bought a brand new Z-71 that is a total piece of shit. It has less than 20,000 miles on it, and the fan motor has gone out 3 times. The driver side mirror stopped working after 10,000. It drinks gas, and the turning radius is worse than our fucking furniture delivery truck.

That isn't an isolated case. That is the norm for myself and everyone I know who owns a domestic car.

I know the unions is a big reason why they suck and the price sucks. I hear horror stories from people inside the auto industry. Something will have to be done about it, or they will die just like many of the airlines once people finally completely loose faith in American automobiles.

Everything that I have ever owned that had Honda stamped on it, was a tough fucking piece of machinery. I have Honda ATVs that are 30 years old and still run like a champion. Don't even ask about Honda Accords. Those cars would last forever. My brothers Nissan Maxima lasted for nearly 300,000 miles, and he drive it hard as hell. My dad's Ford F-150 bit the dust in 75,000 miles. WTF! What a piece of shit.

Toyota Tundras are going to own the trucking industry. Mark my words. Ford and Chevy's days of selling lots of trucks are almost over.

Originally Posted by Zaphod

The main difference being when something doesn't work as it should American automakers and suppliers try to pin the blame on somebody, foreign automakers get right to work fixing the problem, especially the Japanese.

.

That's the way it was at Motorola.

I've got so many stories it isn't funny anymore

Don't hold back.

Road simulators are used to, well, simulate driving down really crappy roads. Basically the same model vehicle is instrumented to collect road data, the quiet parts are snipped out and a test vehicle is put on the road simulator and you essentially rack up like 100,000 miles of abuse on a vehicle in about a week. Very abusive. Just a little background there.

We had the thrill of putting a Dodge Viper on one of the road simulators and when it was ready to run the engineer from Dodge, who never actually viewed the car at any time, just said to let him know what breaks.

One of our other buildings had a Toyota Camry to test on a four-post rig, essentially a dumbed down road simulator. Every twelve hours of run time the car came down and Toyota engineers came in to examine every last bit. Then it went back up for another twelve hours.

Just an example of which engineers are more involved.

Was the lazy Dodge engineer an American?
Where the Toyota people Asian?

Extended cab trucks and some two door cars have what are called tip-slide seats. Tip them forward for someone to get in and they allow easier access by sliding forward, slide them back and they lock back in place.

Ten seats for the GM C/K trucks came in for the tip-slide mechanisms to be tested for operation and ultimately validation to go into production vehicles. The test involved actuating the handle release, tipping the seats and sliding them forward then sliding them back. Something like 10,000 cycles. At the cycle rate they were to be run at it would take two weeks to run all ten.

It actually took two months. All of the various connecting rods and springs broke so quickly we fully expected the customer to collect the seats and bring back some modified ones. The engineer simply brought more parts to replace those that broke, installing as many as three parts in places that should only have one in the hopes of just completing the test. Most times those replaced parts were already broken again before he left the parking lot. Amazingly they went into production as they were.

I'm not trying to come across as talking down to anybody, I'm just giving either some background beforehand or making sure everybody knows what I'm talking about.

Originally Posted by min0 lee

Was the lazy Dodge engineer an American?
Where the Toyota people Asian?

Yes on the Dodge engineer.

The Toyota engineers were a mixed group.

Speaking of Dodge engineers, we did door slam testing for the previous model Dakota and Durango. As similar as they are they were done by different groups. The engineer for the Durango kept sending doors by the truck load. Ultimately over 100 of them. The engineer from Dodge never looked at the data and was not interested in hearing what was going on with his project.

GM and Dodge have actual test specs for door slam testing. Opening distance, slam energy, etc. The Ford test spec is open it and let it close with a spring. Nothing for speed, distance, energy. Maybe that is why their doors sound chintzy.

A quick little Ford story. Vibration testing on A/C condensors. Resonance sweep to find the resonance points vertically, laterally and longitudinally to find the most abusive frequency. Varies from part to part. Ford needed twelve of twelve to pass for validation. They sent fifty. Sample number 50 was the twelfth to actually pass and Ford called it good.

So if your A/C quits in your Ford put up a fight to have it fixed under warranty.