lucifuge

What the hell?
O.K., about a month ago my father in law had a massive stroke, followed up by a couple smaller ones. He went into a coma and had cerebral hemmorhaging... the doctors assumed he was done for and had the family say their last goodbyes and sign DNR forms.
Out of nowhere, two days later, the old man's awake and acting like himself (flipping off the nurses and being a jack ass... I mean that in a good way, the guy's great). So, the hospital decides to move him to what amounts to a nursing home for 'recovery'. Well, not even a week after he's in that place, he's back in a coma. Turns out his brain is still bleeding, and once again they asked for DNR signatures. This was last week. Now, finally the point of this post, the hospital is 'recommending' that if he doesn't come out of his coma in a week that he be placed into a 'hospice' program. The doctor explained to my mother in law that the hospice program is designed to essentially 'help him die' and that once in the program they will stop feeding him and his body will die in less than two weeks. He wouldn't feel any hunger pains or anything... is this right?
Can they just fukking starve a person to death?
I'm not even kidding, I'm already trying to convince my mother in law that she should sue the doctor/hospital for transferring him into the frikkin nursing home while his brain was still hemorrhaging. Now it sounds like they're just trying to murder the old guy.

Stewart20

my grandfather was supposed to go into a hospice as well, and it was our understanding that a hospice is a place where people go when there is nothing more the hospital can do and it is just a matter of time before they passed away, HOWEVER, I never heard that they basically kill you in two weeks! It was explained to us that they basically make the patient as comfortable as possible, yet do not really administer any medical help, so yes, in a way they go there to die, but they make you as comfortable as possible and wait until you go.

http://futuretrainer.blogspot.com/ --My new blog!!

lucifuge

That's what I was thinking. My mother was in hospice when she died, but they still fed her. I've been searching online, and I cannot find a single reference to a hospice 'program' that 'helps' people die... they're supposed to care for the individual and attempt to improve the quality of life for whatever is left of it.
I gotta get a hold of my mother in law.

Yanick

Hospice is designed to meet physiological, psychological and spiritual support to not only the patient, but the family as well. I think, not too sure, that the care they provide is dictated by the disease process. Its possible that he had a small subdural bleed which wouldn't show signs right away. Its a veinous bleed and is fairly slow in its onset. You can always check with a lawyer, but its not necessarily a case of negligence or mal practice.

There's different types of comas. With different levels of consciousness/awareness. This stuff is determined by brain imaging/scans. They do stop feeding people but from what i understand its actually a long process because food is considered a fundamental necessity in life, atleast in NY.

Its still a very difficult question though. You should really get a couple of opinions from various MD's and what not.

"...we have to remember that training is a complicated dance of stimuli and response. Our goal is to understand how to manipulate the stimuli in order to evoke the responses we desire." -Nathan J. Polenchek

chiquita6683

i am very sorry to hear about your father in law and your situation, my condolences go out to you.

when i first read this, i thought of terry schiavo for some reason. i believe a person has a right to life from conception until natural death. a doctor should never intentionally starve or kill a person. doctors are suppose to be healers not killers. even though no more healing can take place, the person still has a right to be treated w dignity (fed, cleaned ect) until they go naturally.

lucifuge

Thanks stewert, Yanick & chiquita.
I told my mother in law that she should definitely talk to some other doctors. I don't have all the details on the brain hemorrhage... or on the hospice situation either. I haven't talked to the doctors, I'm getting my information second and third hand from emotionally distraught women.
I'm not sure, but I think his wife may be agreeing to not having a feeding tube. My wife just called me a few minutes ago and told me that she accepts it that he's going to die,and she's taking our daughter up to the hospital tomorrow to say goodbye.
I dunno, I disagree with the concept, but I guess it's not my place to really say anything. Fucking sucks...
thanks again.

clemson357

Sorry to hear about your situation.


In a way, it is crazy that our technology has put us in this position. Essentially, technology can keep the body going long after the person is actually gone. Where do you draw the line? And how do you know when you have reached that point, and who do you trust when deciding whether you have reached that point?

Most people would agree that denying food is wrong when there is any consciousness, or any chance that they might return to consciousness. I am not a medical expert, so I can't say anything about your particular situation.

________________________

lucifuge

I hear ya clemson, and I appreciate the sentiment.
It appears as if my concern may have been pointless anyway. I got a call from my wife about an hour ago to let me know that his blood pressure is dropping and his breathing is becoming labored. So it's doubtful he'll make it through the weekend. It sounds horrible to say it, but I hope he doesn't.

FitnessRubber

it's a tough situation; hospice care is mostly about comfort, at least traditionally... your situation seems extreme, but not unheard of (unfortunately)

Fitness Rubber
http://www.fitnessrubber.com

DaMayor

This may or may not help your situation...but i'll share it anyway.

My father had cancer. During what appeared to be the last week or so of his life, I watched....all I could do was watch. It was tortureous, the most painful thing I have ever experienced....as could be expected of this situation for anyone. I remember walking outside to get some air one night, and at one point looked up at the full moon and asking God, (or whomever one believes in) to please, make this swift, not for those of us here, and not those of us who will survive, but for the great human being that I loved and hoped to one day be but a small fraction of.

When those we love fall ill, it is usually a shock...obviously. For some reason, we never expect our elders to leave us. This is completely natural. But when the time comes, we have to understand that this is part of the cycle of life. I worked in a hospital for five years. I wheeled hundreds down to the morgue. I saw death in many many forms......but nothing leveled me the way the loss of a loved one did. Although I must say, knowing and understanding the balance of this life we live did help somewhat.

If it is your father-in-law's time to leave....so be it. If modern medicine can offer options to make his time more comfortable, then that's okay. But, as Clemson referenced, it is your decision where to draw the line. It is all about quality of life. And to make a decision regarding this should never cause you or your family a bit of grief.

You guys take care. Everything will work out...........

lucifuge

My father in law passed away yesterday morning.

I just wanted to thank you all again for your kind words and support.

Gazhole

Sorry man, that sucks big time .

http://sdatrainingprograms.blogspot.com - Updated 25/04/08

chiquita6683

I'm very sorry.

DaMayor

I am so sorry for your loss. But all of you will be just fine in a short while....even if it doesn't feel like it right now.

I think we all learn to accept things, even if the first time is painful. After this, we seem to gain a sort of wisdom that makes things make more sense.

You guys hang in there....life has a lot to offer you yet.