Thread: Honda rolls out new zero-emission fuel cell car

No we aren't there yet, I didn't see the price listed, but last I saw, the retail cost of a fuel cell powered car would not be affordable by probably 95% of Americans. It's progress though.

When the price is right I'm getting one. I'll also get an electrolyzer and run it off of solar. I'll store the hydrogen for the car and save the oxygen for my own home oxygen bar. Thus when gas prices soar I'll be at home fueling my own car each day......hell I might get a fuel cell motorcycle, the ENV looks like a fun ride.....

Originally Posted by maniclion

When the price is right I'm getting one. I'll also get an electrolyzer and run it off of solar. I'll store the hydrogen for the car and save the oxygen for my own home oxygen bar. Thus when gas prices soar I'll be at home fueling my own car each day......hell I might get a fuel cell motorcycle, the ENV looks like a fun ride.....

They should have a built in electrolyzer with the solar cell built into the roof... then just fill with water.

wow, isn't it just nice. hope i could get one someday. LOL.. it is just wishful thinking. if they roll the price cheap, maybe i could. haha

Where is the power going to come from to refine and produce all this hydrogen?

Manic made the call... "SOLAR"
But then all the refineries would be in Nevada, Arizona, Utah, and New Mexico.

I hope this will give them some R&D $$ to perfect the electric motors
and gearless drivetrain propulsion. (and eliminate all the oil that goes with current drivetrains)

I was reading through the comments and some are interesting points of view. Remains to be seen how much of truth is in them, though.

I can't wait till we find out all the environmental problems with fuel cells and start demanding change again, nothing is free and nothing is clean, things get relatively cleaner, and thats good, but what I want to know is how 'clean' is the manufacturing process for fuel cells? How does one dispose of a fuel cell in an environmentally sound manner? Before we ramp up production on these things and herald them as the savior of our environment, I think we need to understand the process full circle to ensure we don't shoot ourselves in the foot. think about e-waste (old computers and other electronics), it has become a plague on landfills the world over.

I suspect our children will say how could they have thought this was a good idea? and their children will say the same of them, just like we say of the internal combustion engines our parents built and drove.

I am not saying that this is a bad development at all, I am simply wondering if we know what we are getting into, ignorance can be bliss, but it sure is dangerous.

Good for Honda but doesn't this seem like the same thing we read a few years back about the all electric GM EV-1? It would be nice if people could actually buy them though, I seem to recall that GM repoed all of the EV-1's and destroyed them.

Oh well, it is some progress I guess.

Yes, they did. There was a documentary about it a couple of years ago called "Who Killed the Electric Car?", I believe.

GM did not allow people to renew their leases despite people protesting that they would buy out their leases so they could own the cars. GM took the cars back and stored them in a yard, while people protested at the front gates and then secretly destroyed them.

This is a great development, but we need to invest in a large scale hydrogen infrastructure before this can go anywhere.

They did back in the late 1990's, remember the EV1's that ended up getting crushed?

Then the oil companies bought patents to prevent modern NiMH batteries from being used in US electric cars of fear for loosing busniess.

PetieBoy, I find it hilarious that you talk about future ignorance and the unknowns of fuel cells without actually educating yourself.
I suggest reading directly from a Canadian manufacturer:
About Fuel Cells, Ballard Power Systems, Fuel Cell

"Are fuel cells recyclable?
Yes, most fuel cell components are recyclable or reusable. "

How come that car didnt make a splash? I wonder why GM is keeping this on the DL, if it is true. I smell a gag made of gas dollars around GM's mouth!

GM already has 750 fuel cell Chevy Equinox on lease in the U.S. So stop beating on GM, they beat Honda to market on this one. We'll see how the vehicles stand up to real world testing.

Manics dream (and mine too)

The technology now exists for us to generate hydrogen at home via solar/wind generated electricity.
The hydrogen is stored in a tank (similar to propane) and converted on demand back to electricity through fuel cells.
Complete freedom from the grid.
Simply pug in your electric car. A completely self-contained system.
Someday, hopefully, it will be affordable!

BMW has been working with hydrogen fuel cell vehicles namely 7 series
in Germany for a few years. would be nice to see this more mainstream
in a more afordable car.

I wonder if this is in reference to the same CEO being discussed in Mino's GM thread?

James Adam is correct as was shown in "Who Killed The Electric Car". GM's CEO recently finally admitted that was a huge mistake. The oil/coal companies are spending billions to prevent the changeover to alternative fuels, with secretive deals like buying patents as James pointed out to an all out propaganda campaign. If you don't think so, just count the propaganda commercials in one day on CNN. All you here is clean coal and other lies about how" there's plenty of oil if we'll just drill for it", to hell with the environment!
There's no such thing as clean coal, the only thing dirtier is Tar Sands oil. There is No technology in use or on the horizon as they would like you to believe, to make coal clean. Carbon sequestering has been abandoned by most of the companies working on it as impractical and unachievable on a large scale.
Don't believe the lies, alternative energy is our only option.

Is he right?

To any and all of you who think that hydrogen, in its present form, is any better or cheaper than oil, you are sadly mistaken.
Firstly, the cheapest and simplest method to get hydrogen is from hydrocarbons. Thats oil for those of you who didn't know. It is extracted via a process called pressure swing Adsorbtion (PSA).
Secondly, trying to produce your own hydrogen, by "Solar and wind" power is insane. You would need an large additional bank of DC batteries to store the current you would need to separate hydrogen through electrolysis. Current system for smaller producers cost in the neighbourhood of $1 million CAD. Storing hydrogen at any usable level requires an addition investment of several hundred thousand dollars.

huh?

If we go to Hydrogen fuel be ready for huge Nuclear Power plants to be built in order to separate Hydrogen from Water. There is no natural source for Hydrogen and it takes a lot more energy to make it than you get out of it.

Energy cannot be created or destroyed, it can only be converted from one form to another. Therefore you better love Nuclear power in your backyard or it isn't going to happen.

When Honda says they will do something, everyone seems to jump up. When somebody else has been doing it for a while, well, that's somebody else and we chose not care or mention it, right? The option "we didn't know about that" is even worse for editors.

Mazda has been leasing a fleet of hydrogen powered RX-8s to Japanese companies and authorities for about two years now. The cars are dual-fuel - they use almost standard rotary engine that can run on hydrogen and petrol. Hydrogen-only engine exists too. There was also an experimental run in Finland.

Mazda also owns a network of hydrogen "filling" stations and is expected to introduce hydrogen powered Mazda 5 model this year.

BMW experiment with hydrogen 7-series was limited to airport runs for a limited period of time.

....
And although the Smart Car is selling well, it makes me very sad to read of articles like this one, mentioned on Wikipedia: "In its April issue, Men's Vogue raised the question: in a nation where your supersized car is your castle, is the Smart too mini for a man?".

"Currently, in North America, Smarts are sold with the larger gas engine in the US and Canada, with the smaller, more fuel efficient diesel being sold in Mexico, Europe and other World markets."

WHY? Why is that? Why aren't we trying harder? We should be leading the way. Japan and Europe have been driving smaller cars for decades, whereas over here, the "mine is bigger than yours" b.s. is still too pervasive. Let's hope that changes.

good one!

My bicycle is emission-free and a heck of a lot cheaper...

Hybrid cars - Do they emit Electro-Magnetic Radiation? I believe so. Next Q:
How much risk is there to a driver stuck in traffic 2 hours a day; completely surrounded by Hybrid cars, emitting EMR all around him?

I am not sure about the safety or risks involved with a fuel cell either; because I just know enough about these things. But our Ministry of Health, and other Government agencies need to let the public know all the details, so we can make an educated decision, of which way to go. The consumer decides ultimately; but we need to have knowledge to base our decisions on.

He has a great point for all those foil-on-my-head-to-prevent-alien-rays nutbags

Guess what is a giant electro magnetic field. EARTH

I don't know where people got this idea that electromagnetic fields do harm to people. There is no scientific literature to support this twisted notion. If you had an emf detector (and used it properly, aka giving it time to get a reading on it's 3 axes), you'd realize that emf is everywhere.

Not only that, but this magical illness people claim is from emf is just life symptoms. Random pains, headaches etc.

But, if you want to believe in this made up scare, you should back away from your computer quickly.

Good safety point but very location specific.

As long as this type of vehicle DOESN'T make it to Canada.

It's emission is water. You know, that stuff that freezes into ice when it gets cold. And it gets cold in Canada (even in the Green paradise of Vancouver).

Since icroads are an invitation to accidents, environmentalism should never be allowed to trump human safety.

Check out GENEPAX. They've put together a car that runs on water. Using some sort of platinum-catalyst and a membrane system. No external inputs except water. They even said it would run on sea water.

THAT SHOULD BE THE NEWS, not this. Hydrogen fuel cells are only as good as their source, and the source of hydrogen is currently from coal-fired power plants (in rare cases, hydro-electric).

That Sultan had brains!

When asked when the Oil Age would end, the Sultan of Arabia replied, "We didn't leave the stone age because we ran out of stones."

Well done Honda. About time.

Manic or Monkey would understand this post more than me

WindyStone, you are right on the money & I have been saying the same thing for awhile-electric vehicles are the real way of the future.

If you take 100MJ (megajoule) block of energy & apply it to various propulsion technologies in place today, the clear winner is a Li-ion EV (electric vehicle) which would be able to travel 133km.
By comparison, a full hydrogen powered FCV (fuel cell vehicle) would only muster 42km's on the same block of 100MJ & an H2/EV vehicle would only get 22km's.

If you want a cost effective, good looking electric vehicle, then go check out:
Electric Cars, Green Vehicle :: Phoenix Motorcars, Inc..
It offers a 130 mile range at highway speeds, a 35kWh Lithium Tinanate battery pack good for 10-12 years & 10min charge cycle with optional 600v charger adapter.
The cost is $47,000 for the SUT. Play with the ROI calculator on the website & you'll see that it's cost should break even in ~3 years.

People, we need to get on this train now.

well, that was upto pg.10. I Lost intrest at that point...