Man who killed burglary suspects cleared

**bio-chem** · 06-30-2008, 03:55 PM

Man who killed burglary suspects cleared - CNN.com
HOUSTON, Texas (AP) -- A Texas man who shot and killed two men he suspected of burglarizing his neighbor's home was cleared in the shootings Monday by a grand jury.

Joe Horn shot and killed two men last November after he saw them crawl out a neighbor's window.

Joe Horn, 61, shot the two men in November after he saw them crawling out the windows of a neighbor's house in the Houston suburb of Pasadena.

Horn called 911 and told the dispatcher he had a shotgun and was going to kill the men. The dispatcher pleaded with him not to go outside, but Horn confronted the men with a 12-gauge shotgun and shot both in the back.

"The message we're trying to send today is the criminal justice system works," Harris County District Attorney Kenneth Magidson said.

Horn's attorney, Tom Lambright, has said his client believed the two men had broken into his neighbor's home and that he shot them only when they came into his yard and threatened him.

The two Horn suspected of committing burglary, Hernando Riascos Torres, 38, and Diego Ortiz, 30, were unemployed illegal immigrants from Colombia. Torres was deported to Colombia in 1999 after a 1994 cocaine-related conviction.

The episode touched off protests from civil rights activists who said the shooting was racially motivated and that Horn took the law into his own hands. Horn's supporters defended his actions, saying he was protecting himself and being a good neighbor to a homeowner who was out of town.

Don't Miss
KHOU: Local coverage
"I understand the concerns of some in the community regarding Mr. Horn's conduct," Magidson said. "The use of deadly force is carefully limited in Texas law to certain circumstances ... In this case, however, the grand jury concluded that Mr. Horn's use of deadly force did not rise to a criminal offense."

Lambright did not immediately return a phone call seeking comment from The Associated Press.

Texas law allows people to use deadly force to protect themselves if it is reasonable to believe they are in mortal danger. In limited circumstances, people also can use deadly force to protect a neighbor's property; for example, if a homeowner asks a neighbor to watch over his property while he's out of town.

It's not clear whether the neighbor whose home was burglarized asked Horn to watch over his house.

**DOMS** · 06-30-2008, 03:58 PM

Nice.

Texas sounds like a great place.

**bio-chem** · 06-30-2008, 04:02 PM

Originally Posted by DOMS

Nice.

Texas sounds like a great place.

i thought this would be something you approved of. I've got to agree, it works for me.

**DOMS** · 06-30-2008, 04:03 PM

If I'm elected, there'll be two dead Mexicans in front of every home!

**bio-chem** · 06-30-2008, 04:05 PM

Originally Posted by DOMS

If I'm elected, there'll be two dead Mexicans in front of every home!

i'm proud to be an american. i just want to point out that i beat mino in posting this little bit of news

**min0 lee** · 06-30-2008, 04:34 PM

Originally Posted by bio-chem

i'm proud to be an american. i just want to point out that i beat mino in posting this little bit of news

That seems to be the Colombians M.O., they have breakin crews here in NYC.

**Witchblade** · 07-01-2008, 09:51 AM

He shot them in the back out of self-defence?

Not that I don't approve of course.

**DaMayor** · 07-01-2008, 11:49 AM

I saw this on the news the other night. Per that interview, the men were in his (Horn's) front yard, less than fifteen feet from his front door. When he approached them, they initially made a forward move (i.e., towards him) before turning to run away. His attorney was saying that he feared for his safety/life, and chose to shoot.

Either way, if you don't want to pick lead out of your ass, then don't break into people's houses.

**YSK** · 07-01-2008, 11:51 AM

Ive always idealized the principal that if your robbing me, i can fuck you up anyway i want. Kudos to the old geezer.

**goob** · 07-01-2008, 11:52 AM

Originally Posted by DaMayor

I saw this on the news the other night. Per that interview, the men were in his (Horn's) front yard, less than fifteen feet from his front door. When he approached them, they initially made a forward move (i.e., towards him) before turning to run away. His attorney was saying that he feared for his safety/life, and chose to shoot.

Either way, if you don't want to pick lead out of your ass, then don't break into people's houses.

But self -defence.....perhaps not. If they had started to run, and had their backs to him, it's more like murder. He obviously had time to think, and chose to shoot. THis does not sound like a reflex action.

They brought it on themselves for trying to break into someones house, and paid the ultimate price.

**DaMayor** · 07-01-2008, 11:58 AM

Originally Posted by goob

But self -defence.....perhaps not. If they had started to run, and had their backs to him, it's more like murder. He obviously had time to think, and chose to shoot. THis does not sound like a reflex action.

They brought it on themselves for trying to break into someones house, and paid the ultimate price.

This was my initial thought. I personally wouldn't shoot to kill (in the back) over a robbery, unless an innocent person had been injured during the crime. I would blow your ankles off, maybe bust a cap in your patella....

And another thing. What the hell does shooting at criminals have to do with race? I wish these civil rights wussies would get their facts straight before crying a river of tears.

**Dale Mabry** · 07-01-2008, 04:21 PM

I don't think they approached him, I don't think they threatened him, and I don't think he was in mortal danger or needed to kill them. I like the ruling, however.

**DaMayor** · 07-01-2008, 04:35 PM

Originally Posted by Dale Mabry

I don't think they approached him, I don't think they threatened him, and I don't think he was in mortal danger or needed to kill them. I like the ruling, however.

Oh, I didn't believe the self defense claim either...this is just what his lawyer said. And we know how clemson those clemson legal types clemson are.

I'll take the ruling as well.

**DOMS** · 07-01-2008, 04:46 PM

There are an estimate 20 million Mexicans robbing my country. Can I kill them and get off? Please?

**Dale Mabry** · 07-01-2008, 05:00 PM

Originally Posted by DOMS

There are an estimate 20 million Mexicans robbing my country. Can I kill them and get off? Please?

You would get off if you killed them, but that is somehow unrelated to this discussion.

**DaMayor** · 07-01-2008, 05:04 PM

Funny, but I just had a discussion about this a minute ago.

We have lived in our home for twenty years now. Recently, our neighbors, and best friends, decided to rent the house next door to them out to none other than, GUESS WHO. I haven't seen much of these people. Although I have seen their two pit bulls...which now have targets on their useless hides.

Now, apparently, the son who lives in this house has gotten a case of sticky fingers due to his recent interest in recreational drugs, and has stolen from his own family.

So, after twenty years in a rural setting where we could leave our doors unlocked, our kids could play outside safely, and I could sleep at night....no more, thanks to, I never thought I'd say it......freakin' beaners!

**DaMayor** · 07-01-2008, 06:04 PM

Oops, I'm sorry....the gentleman said he was from Puerto Rico.

**maniclion** · 07-01-2008, 06:49 PM

You never know they could have been running to get guns to come back and finish off the old man. I think he did the right thing, if he hadn't they very well would've come back to kill his ass just for getting in their way....

**BulkMeUp** · 07-02-2008, 12:15 PM

I saw this on CNN where they played his call to 911. The guys wernt robbing his house. They were robbing his neighbors house. He saw that happening and called 911. 911 said the cops were on the way but he decided to go and confront the crooks himself before they got away. The 911 operator tried to dissuade him for his own safety but he decided to go out anyway. He left the phone off the hook when he went out and you could hear the shots being fired. He shot them in the back and killed them. But that part is said to have happened on his property. I guess the crooks were trying to get away via his property when he shot them in the back.

**Goodfella9783** · 07-02-2008, 02:10 PM

Originally Posted by DaMayor

And another thing. What the hell does shooting at criminals have to do with race? I wish these civil rights wussies would get their facts straight before crying a river of tears.

I agree. The man is 61 and the two men were across the street. There's probably a chance it was night too. Are we even sure he identified their race before he told the 911 operator he was going to shoot? I'm guessing there would be no rights activists crying about race if it were two whites victimized by a minority.

I'm surprised this guy got off though. I don't know about Texas, but usually self defense statutes only allow a person to use a reasonable amount of force to fend off an attacker. If these two saw the gun, started running and then this dude shot them, it's hard to believe he was in any imminent danger. The judge was probably trying to make an example out of the victims to deter others.

**bio-chem** · 07-02-2008, 02:13 PM

Originally Posted by Goodfella9783

I agree. The man is 61 and the two men were across the street. There's probably a chance it was night too. Are we even sure he identified their race before he told the 911 operator he was going to shoot? I'm guessing there would be no rights activists crying about race if it were two whites victimized by a minority.

I'm surprised this guy got off though. I don't know about Texas, but usually self defense statutes only allow a person to use a reasonable amount of force to fend off an attacker. If these two saw the gun, started running and then this dude shot them, it's hard to believe he was in any imminent danger. The judge was probably trying to make an example out of the victims to deter others.

or maybe it was a jury?

**Goodfella9783** · 07-02-2008, 02:38 PM

Originally Posted by bio-chem

or maybe it was a jury?

Judge/jury whatever, both are guided by the law.

Deadly Force in Defense of Person
(Texas Penal Code)
(Briggs p. 94)

"A person is justified in using deadly force against another if he would be justified in using force under Section 9.31 of the statute when and to the degree he reasonable believes that deadly force is immediately necessary to protect himself against the other's use or attempted use of unlawful deadly force, if a reasonable person in the same situation would have not retreated. The use of deadly force is also justified to prevent the other's imminent commission of aggravated kidnapping, murder, rape or robbery."

Deadly Force to Protect Property
(Texas Penal Code)
(Briggs p. 96)
"A person is justified in using deadly force against another to protect his property to the degree he reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to prevent the other's imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, theft during the nighttime or criminal mischief during the nighttime, and he reasonably believes that the property cannot be protected by any other means."
"A person is justified in using deadly force against another to prevent the other who is fleeing after committing burglary, robbery, or theft during the nighttime, from escaping with the property and he reasonable believes that the property cannot be recovered by any other means; or, the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the property would expose him or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury. (Nighttime is defined as the period 30 minutes after sunset until 30 minutes before sunrise.)"

**bio-chem** · 07-02-2008, 03:39 PM

Originally Posted by Goodfella9783

Judge/jury whatever, both are guided by the law.

Deadly Force in Defense of Person
(Texas Penal Code)
(Briggs p. 94)

"A person is justified in using deadly force against another if he would be justified in using force under Section 9.31 of the statute when and to the degree he reasonable believes that deadly force is immediately necessary to protect himself against the other's use or attempted use of unlawful deadly force, if a reasonable person in the same situation would have not retreated. The use of deadly force is also justified to prevent the other's imminent commission of aggravated kidnapping, murder, rape or robbery."

Deadly Force to Protect Property
(Texas Penal Code)
(Briggs p. 96)
"A person is justified in using deadly force against another to protect his property to the degree he reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to prevent the other's imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, theft during the nighttime or criminal mischief during the nighttime, and he reasonably believes that the property cannot be protected by any other means."
"A person is justified in using deadly force against another to prevent the other who is fleeing after committing burglary, robbery, or theft during the nighttime, from escaping with the property and he reasonable believes that the property cannot be recovered by any other means; or, the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the property would expose him or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury. (Nighttime is defined as the period 30 minutes after sunset until 30 minutes before sunrise.)"

judge/jury both guided by law. sure, yet one is someone schooled in the law and the other is 12 "peers" usually with little to no learning in the law.

Thread: Man who killed burglary suspects cleared

Thread Tools

Display

Man who killed burglary suspects cleared

Similar Threads

Police Seek Suspects in YouTube Beating

Johns Hopkins student kills burglary suspect with samurai sword

Wash. burglary victim outwits thieves, steals van

PH Ban cleared for White House------>

Posting Permissions