Thread: Mormons face flak for backing Prop. 8

Originally Posted by Built

In the current situation, we are discussing the marriage between two humans. biochem, what personally is your objection to allowing same-sex unions to be defined under this paradigm?

this country was founded on a belief in God, and homosexuality is against that (laws of God).

Originally Posted by Built

Polygamy doesn't trouble ME personally, but there are tremendous financial implications to its practice - for example, how would an insurance co-pay like it if I had three husbands putting in dental claims, or if they outlive me, three survivors claiming pension benefits?

In the current situation, we are discussing the marriage between two humans. biochem, what personally is your objection to allowing same-sex unions to be defined under this paradigm?

as I've said many times it is a moral one. it is one in which i believe to be detrimental to society. the next question of course is how is it detrimental? for that i can once again only refer someone to the article I posted. I find it explains it in a clear language I am incapable of.

Originally Posted by IainDaniel

no i get your point. i am just having fun

oh, well crap. this is something im not used to.

some good debate on this thread.

Originally Posted by PreMier

this country was founded on a belief in God, and homosexuality is against that (laws of God).

Only for men, actually. Female homosexuals are conspicuous in their absence in scripture.

So I guess same-sex marriage is okay between two women, then?

And is it still okay to sell female children into sex-slavery, or did God cancel that part of the bible?

Originally Posted by God? (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment.

Originally Posted by Built

The right to marry a life partner.

This is not a right that I have. Thus, it is not unfairly denied to anyone. I am unable to marry another man. The law is being applied equally.

Your argument has no basis in law, whatsoever.

Originally Posted by Built

Only for men, actually. Female homosexuals are conspicuous in their absence in scripture.

So I guess same-sex marriage is okay between two women, then?

And is it still okay to sell female children into sex-slavery, or did God cancel that part of the bible?

Only if they are cute and post it on the internet

in all seriousness is this is really the path you want to go down? your getting seriously off topic here. aguing the bible with people who use and believe it? I wouldn't presume to quote the koran to a muslim just because ive read it.

that scripture you posted didn't say anything about sex slavery.

Originally Posted by bio-chem

c'mon kelju. i've already stated that I'm using a wild example to prove a point. you don't like Christianity voting for laws based on their version of morality. But isn't there also someone on the other side of you saying that they don't like your version of morality?

If you don't like the pedophile argument lets go with polygamy. why shouldn't consenting adults be allowed to marry more than one person? Gay/Strait doesn't matter. polygyny or polyandry?

They should. I don't have a problem with polygamy. Again, that is about other people's relationships, not mine. As long as the people involved are consenting, key word being "consenting", I don't give a shit.

Polygamy has historically been a huge problem because women didn't have rights. Well times have changed. Women have the same freedoms as men do. So, if 10 women want to marry one guy, then go for it. If he can please them all, he is a better man than me.

Your religion has programmed you to want to control what other people do. even when the things you want to change doesn't hurt anybody.

This all amounts to basic human empathy with compassion. You know? The concept that I wouldn't want somebody doing it to me, so I won't do it to them.

That is the ONLY FUCKING RULE ON THIS PLANET THAT I FOLLOW!!! I don't follow the law. I could wipe my ass with paper that our laws are written on. I could wipe my ass with the original manuscript of the bible. I don't need a book to tell me how to live or what is right. If you need a book to help you figure out what your morals and ethics are, then you probably have no business telling other people what is right and wrong.

Do you want somebody telling you who you can and can't marry? Fuck no, man. So, stop doing it to other people.

Originally Posted by brogers

This is not a right that I have. Thus, it is not unfairly denied to anyone. I am unable to marry another man. The law is being applied equally.

Your argument has no basis in law, whatsoever.

So... you're gay, unable to marry your life partner, and this is okay with you.

Got it. I think?

Originally Posted by KelJu

I wouldn't expect a heartless piece of shit like you to even remotely understand anything in this thread.

Good idea. Say that rather than attempt to make the impossible argument that gays are being unfairly denied any right.

Originally Posted by bio-chem

If you don't like the pedophile argument lets go with polygamy. why shouldn't consenting adults be allowed to marry more than one person? Gay/Strait doesn't matter. polygyny or polyandry?

Consenting "adult humans" should be allowed to marry if if there are more than two involved. If a Man thinks he can handle 2 or 3 wives then more power to him, if a woman wants a few extra men around the house then she'd better marry a couple extra women to help with the nagging....I think it's about time we stopped making our policies based on outdated thinking conjoured by teachings of ancient scrolls from a time when people castrated lambs with their teeth......

Originally Posted by bio-chem

Only if they are cute and post it on the internet

Hehehe...

in all seriousness is this is really the path you want to go down? your getting seriously off topic here. aguing the bible with people who use and believe it?

You think I don't?

I wouldn't presume to quote the koran to a muslim just because ive read it.

that scripture you posted didn't say anything about sex slavery.

You're quite right. She could marry her owner's son of her own volition. I'm sure she wouldn't be forced into it under those circumstances.

Slavery is okay with God though, right? For men, 6 years max. For women, forever.

Originally Posted by brogers

Good idea. Say that rather than attempt to make the impossible argument that gays are being unfairly denied any right.

Your question so too dumb to compute.

Originally Posted by Built

So... you're gay, unable to marry your life partner, and this is okay with you.

Got it. I think?

You can marry your "life partner" provided that person is of the opposite sex. Just as I can. No right is unfairly denied or unequally applied.

It is perfectly OK with me for a man to be unable to marry another man or woman:woman, you got it.

Originally Posted by KelJu

Your question so too dumb to compute.

Irony

Originally Posted by KelJu

They should. I don't have a problem with polygamy. Again, that is about other people's relationships, not mine. As long as the people involved are consenting, key word being "consenting", I don't give a shit.

Polygamy has historically been a huge problem because women didn't have rights. Well times have changed. Women have the same freedoms as men do. So, if 10 women want to marry one guy, then go for it. If he can please them all, he is a better man than me.

Your religion has programmed you to want to control what other people do. even when the things you want to change doesn't hurt anybody.

This all amounts to basic human empathy with compassion. You know? The concept that I wouldn't want somebody doing it to me, so I won't do it to them.

That is the ONLY FUCKING RULE ON THIS PLANET THAT I FOLLOW!!! I don't follow the law. I could wipe my ass with paper that our laws are written on. I could wipe my ass with the original manuscript of the bible. I don't need a book to tell me how to live or what is right. If you need a book to help you figure out what your morals and ethics are, then you probably have no business telling other people what is right and wrong.

Do you want somebody telling you who you can and can't marry? Fuck no, man. So, stop doing it to other people.

you need to chill. you're really starting to get on my nerves with that bull shit programing argument. Even when we disagree i've enjoyed your posts because usually they contain valid points that need to be adressed. at the moment i think you need to go smoke a bowl and come back to regular scheduled programing.

no one here has yet to seriously adress the article i posted. yourself included. if you have an aguement against that then lets talk.

Originally Posted by brogers

You can marry your "life partner" provided that person is of the opposite sex. Just as I can. No right is unfairly denied or unequally applied.

It is perfectly OK with me for a man to be unable to marry another man or woman:woman, you got it.

Your logic sounds like this.

2 + 5 = 10 as long as 5 really means 8.

Originally Posted by KelJu

Your logic sounds like this.

2 + 5 = 10 as long as 5 really means 8.

Thanks genius. Continue to avoid the basic argument and spout off BS.

Originally Posted by brogers

You can marry your "life partner" provided that person is of the opposite sex. Just as I can. No right is unfairly denied or unequally applied.

Yes it is, and you just said it: "provided that person is of the opposite sex".

Unless your idea of a life-partner is someone for whom you have no romantic interest (at which point, my condolences to your betrothed), I don't see what you are getting at.

Originally Posted by Built

Hehehe... You think I don't?
You're quite right. She could marry her owner's son of her own volition. I'm sure she wouldn't be forced into it under those circumstances.

Slavery is okay with God though, right? For men, 6 years max. For women, forever.

all right, but before we get started recognise that I don't believe the word of God ended with the bible. I believe God still has guidence to us his children and as such continues to reveal his will to living prophets today as he did in biblical times. because of things like pornography which is an issue today that wasn't 2,000 years ago. God is not silenced.

To begin it's going to be hard to use the old testament or old covenant. when Jesus fulfilled the law of moses and gave us the new testament or new covenant. Jesus gave us the higher law. With new revelation Jesus expects us to follow higher standards now than he did the people of moses.

but this isn't anything new to you. you live and follow the bible. right?

Originally Posted by bio-chem

you need to chill. you're really starting to get on my nerves with that bull shit programing argument. Even when we disagree i've enjoyed your posts because usually they contain valid points that need to be adressed. at the moment i think you need to go smoke a bowl and come back to regular scheduled programing.

no one here has yet to seriously adress the article i posted. yourself included. if you have an aguement against that then lets talk.

Finally, something we can agree on in this thread.


If I seem harsh, it is because I have people in my life that I love very much that are being discriminated against. The owner of the business I work for has treated me like a son for the past 5 years. I have learned more about life from him than my own dad. He is hands down, the most giving, forgiving, and compassionate person I have ever met. His life partner is 70. They have been in a monogamous relationship for over 50 years. T

If anybody deserves to be married, they do.

Originally Posted by brogers

Thanks genius. Continue to avoid the basic argument and spout off BS.

Bla bla bla. I'm arguing with an emotionless machine. I need to have my head examined.

Originally Posted by Built

Yes it is, and you just said it: "provided that person is of the opposite sex".

Unless your idea of a life-partner is someone for whom you have no romantic interest (at which point, my condolences to your betrothed), I don't see what you are getting at.

Brogers doesn't understand because it requires basic human emotions to grasp what life partner means.

Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.

Originally Posted by KelJu

Finally, something we can agree on in this thread.


If I seem harsh, it is because I have people in my life that I love very much that are being discriminated against. The owner of the business I work for has treated me like a son for the past 5 years. I have learned more about life from him than my own dad. He is hands down, the most giving, forgiving, and compassionate person I have ever met. His life partner is 70. They have been in a monogamous relationship for over 50 years. T

If anybody deserves to be married, they do.

And I'm sure they have experienced quite a few difficulties because of it.

I commend their commitment to each other. that is impressive. What would a marriage certificate do to change their lives?

Originally Posted by bio-chem

And I'm sure they have experienced quite a few difficulties because of it.

I commend their commitment to each other. that is impressive. What would a marriage certificate do to change their lives?

The same things it will do for a strait couple.

Originally Posted by bio-chem

And I'm sure they have experienced quite a few difficulties because of it.

I commend their commitment to each other. that is impressive. What would a marriage certificate do to change their lives?

Logical fallacy alert.

Ninja edit: Built's cleaning up for me.

Originally Posted by bio-chem

And I'm sure they have experienced quite a few difficulties because of it.

I commend their commitment to each other. that is impressive. What would a marriage certificate do to change their lives?

Built already said what I was going to say.